How is Islam similar to Christianity and Judaism?

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2011 12:05

"Yasin" wrote:

I think this topic is about similarities of Islam and the Christians so I'll leave it with the following video www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfbX-n0WQLY by a doctor and an expert of the bible (plz ignore youtube comments. Ignorant muslims love fighting which each other)

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2011 12:17

If Jesus (peace be upon him) is one face of a "trinity" and the trinity is one god not many, and Jesus died on the cross, then this "one" god (the "trinity") is the one alleged to have died on the cross. It also follows that if Jesus and God are "one and the same" (definition of the trinity) then anyone who sees Jesus has seen God, however, John 1:18 says "No man hath seen God at any time." When people love God "with all thy mind" they can't help but keep coming back to the same conclusion: That God almighty is the only god anywhere. That He has no physical (begotten/sired...etc.) sons. That Jesus (pbuh) was only an elect messenger of God, and that to enter heaven one must only "keep the commandments." This is exactly the message of the Qur'an, and this is the true inspiration of God.

"Many will say to me (Jesus) in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2011 12:20

abu mohammed wrote:

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Jesus (pbuh) never in his lifetime told anyone to worship him. It was others who did that. Quite the contrary, whenever Jesus (pbuh) spoke of worship, he always attributed it to God and never himself: "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" Luke 4:8. Notice the words: "Him ONLY." Jesus did not say "US only," or "Him and I only." How could he possibly make it more clear than that? What abstract meaning are we now going to concoct for this verse to show that what Jesus "really" meant was "worship both of us." "worship both of us." The problem with many apologists is that they "interpret" the words "he" and "him" to mean "we" and "us" when it suits them, and to mean "he" and "him" only when it suits them. In cases such as Luke 4:8, they claim that "him" really means "us." But in cases where God "begets" Jesus, or where God "sacrifices" Jesus, "him" and "he" is God alone and does not mean "us" and "we." Notice the trend ?

Want more ? "Jesus saith unto her, ... worship the Father" John 4:2. "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship HIM" John 4:23. Notice: "worship the FATHER," not "worship the father AND THE SON." Also notice: "worship HIM" not "worship US." "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21. "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." Matthew 22:37. In the Bible we find many verses to this effect: Exodus 34:14 "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." Psalms 81:9 "There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god." Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD."

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2011 12:35

Did Jesus die for the sins of the world? -

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUA2Ln4jsEM

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpdrcQ55Zxw&feature=related

Dr. Jerald Dirks

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2011 18:28

As a Christian, Yasin, I can only accept what the Quran says about Jesus if it is consistent with what Jesus says about himself in the Gospels. Be assured that I believe all that Jesus says about himself: both the texts that Muslims quote from the Gospels with approval and those they reject because they speak of his deity or death and resurrection. I think this is clear in my previous two posts. I wonder if there are Muslims who also treat the Quran like this: quoting the bits they agree with and ignoring those that they don't. As a Christian, I often find that the passages of the New Testament that are ignored or rejected are those that God uses to challenge us the most!

I get the impression from these posts that Muslims are saying a great deal about Jesus that goes well beyond what is revealed in the Quran. Extensive quotations and citations from both the Old and New Testaments are used. I just wish those that are referring to these passages would read them first in their context. This would greatly improve their understanding and our discussions.

On your recommended video - the speaker, quotes only a very few statements by Jesus from the Gospels. I agree with them all. However, I also agree with all the other statements made by Jesus that he does not quote.

In my previous post I concluded on the basis of the Gospels, that:

"The only conclusion one can reach from a study of the Gospels is that Jesus was a man (and I assume that both Christians and Muslims agree on this) and more than a man. He is the sinless Son of God, the Messiah, the Saviour of the world, with all that means in terms of pre-existence, divine authority, insight into our motives, and power to forgive sins. He was mortal in that he died for your sins and mine, taking the penalty in our place. Yet he is risen from the dead and ascended into heaven. His relationship with God, whom he called Father was such that he said the Father was in him and he was in the Father; that those who had seen him had seen the Father; that those who knew him, knew the Father."

Now you don't have to agree with me, but suggesting that I have not accepted what Jesus said could not be further from the truth.

On Misha'al ibn Abdullah al-Kadhi's article on the Trinity, I can only say that I have heard some poor Trinitarian theology in the past but I don't recognise his description of the Trinity as anything Christians believe or would want to defend.

The doctrine of the Trinity is a model or paradigm developed by Christians in the fourth Century that has been under more or less continuous development and re-interpretation ever since. Like a scientific paradigm, it uses the available data from the Bible to draw conclusions that are consistent and explain most of the data. Its better expressions are sophisticated, complex, philosophical, cautious in the language they use, consistent with the Bible and explain more than they fail to explain. Does it adequately describe the nature and being of God? No, it does not. God is always greater that anything that can be said or written about God. Human language and thought forms (even at their most sophisticated) are, by their very nature finite, and therefore inadequate. God is infinite. The doctrine of the Trinity is merely a sophisticated model that attempts to describe the relationship between God, the creator and sustainer of the universe, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It does so in part but is just a paradigm. As human beings we still cant adequately describe the nature of physical, finite reality using the paradigms of quantum physics or string theory, so there is no chance of any of us (Muslim, Christian or whatever) coming up with a paradigm that adequately describes the infinite God.

While God can describe God (what Christians call divine revelation), that revelation can only be communicated to us in words and thought forms that are human. Consequently, the infinite and unknown can only be apprehended by us with reference to the finite and already known. Thus human language and thought forms set the boundaries on what can be known (intellectually) by us about God.

Having said this, most of Misha'al ibn Abdullah al-Kadhi's description of the Trinity would not be recognised by a well-informed Christian. In fact most of it is a parody of the Trinity. The author either does not understand it himself or he is wilfully misrepresenting it.

If I really want to know what Muslims believe, whom should I ask, poorly-informed Christians or well-informed Muslims?

If I really want to know what Christians believe, whom should I ask, poorly-informed Muslims or well-informed Christians?

On the "Three day and three night" prophecy which Jesus used to predict his death and resurrection, this prediction is repeated using another idiom in the Gospels of John, Matthew and Mark.

'Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?" Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days".' (John 2:18, 19)

This is a classic example of Jesus' use of figures of speech that are not to be taken literally, yet proclaim truth. In fact, most of what Jesus said was idiomatic (see my earlier post). He used figures of speech almost all the time and delighted in teaching truth through parables rather than using literal speech.

'The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it up in three days?" But the temple he had spoken of was his body.' (John 2:20, 21. See also verse 22, Matthew 26:61 & 27:40, Mark 14:58 & 15:29)

This Muslim author (Sorry, I'm not sure who actually wrote this) uses the Christian Calendar to demonstrate that Jesus could not have been in the tomb for three days and three nights.

The Christian Calendar is a useful way of scheduling the year so that the major events in Jesus life are celebrated in the correct sequence (e.g. his birth, death, resurrection, assention into heaven and sending of the Holy Spirit on his Disciples). However, most of it does not correspond with the chronology of the Gospels. When we look at the Gospels themselves, the three days and three nights' chronology is quite clear. You are probably already aware that, for the Jews, each day starts at sunset (not midnight).

Tuesday: Jesus ate an evening Passover meal (the Last Supper) with His disciples and instituted the New Covenant (Matthew 26:26-28). After this, Jesus was betrayed by Judas Iscariot, arrested and, during the night, brought before the high priest.

Wednesday: Jesus was crucified and died around 3 p.m. (Matthew 27:46-50). This was the preparation day for the annual High-day Sabbath (not the weekly Sabbath) which began at sunset (Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:31) Jesus' body was placed in the tomb just before sunset (Matthew 27 57-60).

Thursday: This was the High-day Sabbath, the first day of Unleavened Bread (John 19:31, Leviticus 23:4-7).

Friday: The High-day Sabbath now past, the women bought and prepared spices for anointing Jesus' body before resting on the weekly Sabbath day, which began at sunset (Mark:16:1, Luke:23:56).

Saturday: The women rested on the weekly Sabbath, according to the fourth of the Ten Commandments (Luke 23:56, Exodus 20:8).

Sunday: The women brought the prepared spices early in the morning while it was still dark to anoint the body of Jesus (Luke 24:1, John 20:1) but Jesus had already risen from the dead (Matthew 28:1-6 Mark 16:2-6, Luke 24:2-3, John 20:1).

Don't just take my word for it, read it for yourself in the Gospels. What does all this prove? Only that the chronology of the Christian Calendar owes as much to the pre-Christian Roman calendar and post-Apostolic tradition as it does to the Gospels.

One thing that strikes me about many of these posts is that they are simply copied from other sources and I find myself having discussions by proxy. Surly there are real live Muslims on Muftisays who can post their own views rather than just copying across the views of others. As Yasin has suggested, how about actually exploring the similarities a bit more, perhaps by comparing the teachings of the Quran with the teachings of Jesus?

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2011 22:00

With all due respect, Dr Lazarus. It is you who is trying to convince us that Jesus (peace be upon him) was the son of god or god himself. We as Muslims know what to believe as was taught to us by the final Prophet of god. We can not accept the manipulated versions of the bible and have a clear cut discussion on one of the greatest personalities to walk the face of the earth, and Infact to come back and continue with his life on this earth, marry, have children, fight the anti Christ, demolish the cross, kill the pigs (not in that order) etc etc and then finally layed to rest next to "The" Greatest personality to walk the face of the earth.

We have many narrations from prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) regarding the advent, birth, life, miracles, raising up to the heavens, lowering from the heavens, where, how, with whom, what he will do, and much much more about prophet Jesus (peace be upon him).

We don't need to speak out of our own will. As in many cases, the scholars have already done great compilations. So of course you will find much of the work copied and pasted as we all hold one belief unlike the other religions who don't know where to start.

The bible has changed many times. There are many variants, and most, if not all of them are used against the Christian belief.

I have read parts of the gospel of barnabas too. Very interesting. Confirms many of teachings of Islam. But like the other gospels, that too is altered.

The Quran remains intact until today. Not one letter of the Quran has been removed.

The Christians are very confused, Infact they made a movie based on his life, the movie clearly shows that Jesus makes mention of the coming of the last prophet, yet they don't understand.

I will try to find the link for the part of the movie, The Passion, where this takes place. Though I cringe at the physical depiction of this mighty servant of god.

One last thing, it is the Christians who are reverting to Islam and not the Muslims converting to Christianity. That in its self speaks volumes.

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2011 14:20

Hi Abu Mohammed. I trust that for you Eid has been a time of joy and forgiveness.

Actually my texts have largely been responding to the articles you and others asked me to read. I am not trying to convince you of anything ... I leave that to the Holy Spirit. What I am suggesting is that when Muslims use quotations from the Gospels (and the rest of the Bible) they should do so with integrity. This means, before quoting the text, read the context. This generally makes the meaning clear and avoids misrepresenting what the Bible is saying.

On "manipulated versions of the Bible", I know of only one that appears to have been intentionally manipulated (The New World Version). There are indeed different versions of the New Testament but most of the differences between them are very small. Because the New Testament was written in uncial Greek there were no spaces between the words. Consequently, in a few places, words can be divided up in different ways giving variant readings. In addition to the 75 or so Greek papyri there are also versions, translated between the 4th to 9th Centuries, in many ancient languages. Translation can never exactly express the meaning of the original text and there were some very poor Latin translations!

The 1611 Authorised Version (that seems to the version most used by the Muslim writers on Muftisays) was based on some very late and inferior Greek manuscripts. Most textual variations in early Greek manuscripts are very small and have little or no theological importance.

The other issue is interpolations - bits of text that appear in later manuscripts, which were not in the earliest. These interpolations are very few, most are well known and have been removed from more recent and scholarly translations of the Bible based on the oldest manuscripts. That these interpolations were a result of intentional manipulation is possible but unlikely. Most of the scribes and copyists had a very high view of the Bible, believing it to be the written Word of God. The process by which most interpolations get into the text is this - When a copyist missed out a passage, he corrected his error by writing the missing passage in the margin. However, margins were also used to write commentaries on the text. The next copyist is then faced with the problem of not knowing of the marginal text is commentary or original text.

In the best modern translations that have used the oldest manuscripts, any variant readings have been identified and interpolations removed. Have a look and see if Jesus' claims to be the Son of God fall into either of these categories.

I have met some very fine Muslim scholars who are a credit to both Islam and academia but some of the links on posts here are simply not scholarly. They do Islam no credit by blatantly misrepresenting what Christians believe. Sister-in-Islam generally does well but even she is not always checking the context before quoting from the Bible.

I am not so sure that Islam is as united as you suggest with Sunis, Shias, Salafis, Sufis, Deobad, Barelui etc. etc. This sounds as diverse as Christianity with its Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant and other divisions.

The Gospel of Barnabas is an interesting read but, since it is 16th Century, much too recent to be of any value in understanding Jesus.

You say, "not one letter of the Quran has been removed." I am no scholar of the Quran but I wonder if the Quran has been subjected to the same scholarly textual criticism as the Bible. My suspicion is that if it were, similar small variant readings and interpolations to those in the New Testament would be found. .. . I just Googled Wikipedia on this (not that Wikipedia is always correct!). Have a look at the Wikipedia article on Textual Criticism and tell me what do you think?

Yes, I have seen the film but I don't remember anything about Jesus making "mention of a coming last prophet". I would be interested in seeing the clip if you can find it. However, it is just a film and, like all films, it uses a lot of artistic licence. I too found the violent imagery of flogging and crucifixion emotionally painful to watch. For me this emotional pain was heightened by my faith that Jesus endured this in my place.

Islam is currently probably the world's fastest growing religion at about 1.9%. Christianity, by comparison is only growing at about 1.4%. However, in Western societies Buddhism appears to be the fastest growing religion. The majority of converts in Western societies are generally only nominally Christian. If I am not mistaken, there are some strong disincentives for Muslims in Islamic states to convert to Christianity!

Of course the number of converts to any religion proves nothing in terms of its truth of falsehood. The majority are not always right; nor are they always wrong.

While I would hope that religious conversion would bring individuals into a closer relationship with God, the other big issue is the impact of religious conversions on our world. Jesus said, "By their fruit shall you know them". If conversion makes people more loving and forgiving; less violent and selfish, then the world will be a better place.

Peace

Dr Lazarus

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2011 15:09

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui71HaLm-2M&feature=related

Please note, This is not evidence from me or the Muslims. We do not need Mel Gibson to help us understand our religion.

As mentioned before, I cringe at the physical depiction of this mighty servant of god.

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2011 18:04

Many thanks for this Abu Mohammed

I think most Christians would agree with you. We don't need Mel Gibson either to help us understand Jesus! It is just a film.

The script used in this section of the film appears to be based on John 15:26:

"When the Counsellor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me."

Jesus addresses the same subject in John 14:16 and 17:

"and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

And in John 14:26:

"But the Counsellor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

The word translated Counsellor is the Greek word παράκλητος (parakletos). Parakletos means counsellor, advocate, mediator, intercessor, comforter and helper and is unambiguously identified by Jesus as the Holy Spirit.

In Aramaic it is usually the Greek loan word Paraqleyta that is used. However, in the film the translator uses the Aramaic word manachma. The root of manachma is nachma which, again, simply means comforter. I can't see how this could possibly mean Mohammed and I suspect that neither Mohammed nor his followers ever claimed that he was the Holy Spirit.

The Aramaic word for God is Elaha and is indeed related to the Arabic word for God, Allah. These words for God pre-date both Christianity and Islam and were used by polytheists prior to the monotheism of Christianity and Islam.

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2011 18:30

Thank you.

I forgot to comment on the different schools and sects within the Muslims.

True, there are schools and sects in all religions. Infact I can guarantee you that the Muslims will have more sects than the Christians and Jews.

But the Quran is still unchanged and unchangeable.

I don't want to constantly be posting YouTube links. Bit I will recommend taking a look into the debates by Ahmed Deedat and Dr Zakir Naik. They have been challenged by many and proved the challenges to be baseless.

I would also recommend a book by Ahmed Deedat called "The Choice". There is also another book called "The Quran, The bible and science" written by a non Muslim, Dr Maurice Bucail. (sorry the spelling may not be correct). This proves with the aid of science why the bible is incorrect and not from a divine source and why the Quran must be from.a divine source.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2011 20:48

The books, as mentioned above.

The Choice, Part 1

The Choice, Part 2

The Holy Scriptures Examined. In The Light Of Modern Knowledge. By. Dr. Maurice Bucaille

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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2011 22:16

"Seifeddine-M" wrote:

Did Jesus die for the sins of the world? - Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUA2Ln4jsEM Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpdrcQ55Zxw&feature=related Dr. Jerald Dirks

Dr Lazarus, can you also please elaborate on this further.

It is very interesting.

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 10th November 2011 15:46

Dr Lazarus wrote:

Actually my texts have largely been responding to the articles you and others asked me to read. I am not trying to convince you of anything ... I leave that to the Holy Spirit.[/quote]

The one whom you call the Holy Spirit is the one who blew into Virgin Mary, the baby Jesus (PBUH).
We know him as the Angel Gabriel, or Jibreel in Arabic. WIth all due respect Dr Lazarus, He does not do the guiding or convincing, he is but an Angel of God. It is God who guides whom he wills.

Dr Lazarus wrote:

I get the impression from these posts that Muslims are saying a great deal about Jesus that goes well beyond what is revealed in the Quran. [/quote]

Of course we have the Main source of information which is undisputed, "The Holy Quran", then we have Hadith, Narrations from the final Prophet himself (PBUH). We also have texts that may or may not be true but are still used to prove that even the readers of the bible are not understanding the verses, wether they are from different versions or not, The Bible is not what it was in the time of Jesus (PBUH) and his companions (Peace be upon them).

[quote="Dr Lazarus"]You say, "not one letter of the Quran has been removed." I am no scholar of the Quran but I wonder if the Quran has been subjected to the same scholarly textual criticism as the Bible. My suspicion is that if it were, similar small variant readings and interpolations to those in the New Testament would be found. .. . I just Googled Wikipedia on this (not that Wikipedia is always correct!). Have a look at the Wikipedia article on Textual Criticism and tell me what do you think?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_criticism
I understand your point. However, you suspicion regarding the Qurans textual criticism is not correct. Yes there are different explanations that different scholars make of different verses, which is one of the Miracles of the Quran. The Quran has remained intact from the very first day it had started to be revealed to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). There have been nay conspiracies to destroy the Quran, yet another Miracle of it is that even if the Quran was destroyed, a new text could be written out within a day as the Quran is scribed into the hearts of millions of muslims around the world. You can walk into any mosque and ask 100 people if they knew the Quran by heart, cover to cover, you will be suprised with the result. Not all Muslims have memorised the Quran, but ALL of them can recite the same verses of the Quran by heart in Arabic even if they are from two non Arab countries. Another Miracle!

With regards to the different explanations of the verses of the Quran, you can call them "The Jewels of the Quran" There are verses of the Quran that have been understood only recently and some that will become clearer in the future. God Willing I will try to find some examples for you.
In the mean time time you can read through these:
www.muftisays.com/forums/members-research-group/5252/jewe...

This is not to be understood the way you have understood the Bible i.e. ambiguous. You have said in a few places that verse of the Bible says one thing but it means something else. This to me sounds like mind games, trying to put ones self at ease. If I was to do that, The so help me God.

[quote="Dr Lazarus"]Posted on 9th November 2011 18:04: The Whole Post

It seems like the one Jesus is speaking about is the same one Moses is talkig about;
www.muftisays.com/forums/members-research-group/6158/deut...

In one of the quotes from Jesus addresses the same subject in John 14:16 and 17:

"and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

If I looked at it ambiguously, this would be talking about "FAITH", But then again, there is no evidence that these verses are correct or not.

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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 10th November 2011 16:46

Since I have mentioned the Errors of the Bible as a topic as well as the Miracles of the Quran, I would like to add a few links here:

www.muftisays.com/forums/members-research-group/5302/dont...

I dont like putting forward Youtube Videos, but it has saved a lot of time.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QCmlCux82c

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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 10th November 2011 23:50

Thanks for suggesting Ahmed Dedat's books. So far I understand a bit more but am even more confused!

Having looked at his first book, I think I now understand the claims that are being made using Greek and Arabic (not Aramaic as in the film). I assume that Ahmed Dedat is an Arabic scholar (I am not) so I will trust him on his translations of Arabic into English.

On page 31 of his book, he applies the quotation "he will guide you into all truth" to Muhummed (his spelling).
This appears to be a quotation from John 16:13, where Jesus says to his Disciples, "... when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Jesus has been speaking about the coming of the Paracletos (the Counsellor) who is the Holy Spirit to his Disciples in chapters 14 and 15 as well as 16. In John 14:16 and 17, Jesus says, "... I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you." In John 14:26, Jesus continues, "... the Counsellor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." And in John 15:26: "When the Counsellor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me."

On page 49, Mr. Dedat quotes from a note in a Quran that claims, " 'Ahmed' or 'Muhammed' the Praised One is almost a translation of the Greek word periclytos". He is an Arabic scholar, so I assume that this is correct. However, he then quotes this note as saying, "paracletos is a corrupt reading of periclytos". I guess that Mr. Dedat is claiming that because periclytos in Greek and Ahmed in Arabic both mean 'praised one', Jesus is speaking of the coming of Muhummed.

The fundamental weakness with this claim is that he does not give any evidence to support the statement that, "paracletos is a corrupt reading of periclytos". All of the early Greek manuscripts of the Gospel of John use paracletos (counsellor); none use periclytos (praised one). All of the early versions in other languages use words that mean counsellor; none use words that mean praised one. So what evidence would be acceptable to a reasonable person? Any early Greek manuscript that uses periclytos or any early version in another language (such as Coptic, Latin, Syriac, Slavic, Ethiopic, Armenian or even Aramaic) that uses a word that means 'praised one' rather than 'counsellor', or any quotation from the Gospel of John in an early manuscript that uses periclytos or words that mean 'praised one'. Do tell be if any one of these exist. If not, the claim is totally without foundation.

Jesus unambiguously identified the Paracletos (Counsellor) as the Holy Spirit, not Muhamed. Jesus told his disciples in the first Century that they knew the the Paracletos and he would would be with them forever. Muhamed was not born for another 500 years and more. Jesus told his disciples that the Paracletos would be in them. No problem for the Holy Spirit; impossible for Muhamed.

I think I must be missing something here but I really don't know what it is. Given that Christians and Muslims are equally intelligent and equally able to use logic and reason, on what reasonable, logical basis could anyone believe such a claim?

I'll read some more of Mr Dedat next week.

Peace

Dr Lazarus

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How is Islam similar to Christianity and Judaism?

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