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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd September 2015 16:38

SunniSeeker wrote:

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If I make a wild Guess about your ethnicity would I be wrong?

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd September 2015 17:24

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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If you made a wild guess you would probably be wrong. If you make the obvious guess you'd be right :)
Not that it makes any difference really.

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd September 2015 20:40

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Muad khan sir, like many other things,you are right in your analysis here too !

I am a Pakistani,and I believe the west Pakistani beuracracy never cared about the sentiments of Bengalis from day one.The Bengalis of East Pakistan showed great enthusiasm in Pakistan movement. When Pakistan was created they were 'the majority population',politically much more aware,intellectually far ahead and emotionally much more sensitive.They believed,rightly so,that the majority should receive its share in resources and power structure,which they were denied.

Pakistan was supposed to be a Fedration of five different units with complete provincial autonomy (with defence and Foreign relations in the hands of the centre).It was very unwise to begin with,if you think,that the two parts of one country should be about 1000 miles or more apart with an enemy state in between who could cut down the communication between the two parts at their will ( which they did in 1971).

The issue of Bengali language was the first manifestation of Bengali Nationalism.Urdu was imposed as a national language which was not the language of any of the nationalities comprising Pakistan.The reason given was that Urdu will serve as means of communication between the various units.An argument can be presented that if Pakistan was made in the name of Islam,in the absence of any common language, why not make Arabic a national language ? Urdu was not our mother tongue and we had to learn it..we could have learned Arabic the same way.If the secular leaders of Pakistan did not like or did not want Arabic as a national language,then it could be English.Arabic had religious and political advantage as gradually Pakistan would have become a 'natural' part of the Arab world...and English would at least give us the material advantage of much greater access to science & technology.In both cases it might have been agreed upon by all,without stirring any nationalist emotions in Bengalis.

In the early days of Pakistan,it was ruled by those Muslims who migrated from India...only they could do it... because the areas known as Pakistan was extremely backward in education and had little executive experience...later on they were replaced by the elite class of Punjab.In this whole process Bengal was almost completely ignored. They were treated as inferiors,their demands ignored,their political restlessness brushed aside...creating deep resentment against the Rule of west Pakistan in Bengali intelligentsia. Bengali Hindus played their negative role as well but it was the Ruling elite of west Pakistan who provided the necessary material to be exploited.

Shaikh Mujeeb,when he assumed the leadership of Bengalis,found a fertile ground already prepared.He demanded complete Provincial autonomy with solid reasoning behind his demand and evidences well known to Bengalis but he was termed a traitor.

The defeat was written in the destiny of Pakistan Army,when they started operation in Bengal,which everyone could see except the Pakistani Army and Pakistani nation.Morally there was no justification not to make Shaikh Mujeeb the Prime minister of the country when he won the majority seats of National Assembly ,though ALL his seats he won were from Bengal,militarily it was not even an option to defend Bengal when Indian air space was closed and the Bay of Bengal cut down.One can only call it extreme arrogance to still try a war which was lost before it started.The only solution,if possible,could be through political dialogue...unfortunately that was not even seriously tried.

War is after all war,excesses were commited by both sides,more so by Pakistan Army...and as a Pakistani I feel ashamed of what happened in Bengal.Bangladesh rightly deserve an apology from Pakistani government and the people of Pakistan.They were WRONGED all along from day one to the creation of Pakistan.I wish Bengladesh come out of its current political turmoil,adopt the policy of "forget and Forgive", adopt its true Islamic Identity...and become a source of strength and support for the Umma including Pakistan.Bengalis are an intelligent nation,I am sure they can make a bright future for themselves and earn their rightful place in the community of nations.I wish them good luck.

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 04:45

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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My impression is the following.
Pakistanis have only one thing to do - just apologize and that is all.
I assure you and anyone that this will not solve the problem. In fact it will make the problem more serious.
The nationalists in BD will simply accelerate the hangings of Jama-at-e-Islami people.
That is when the BD Muslims come into picture.
The task is to implement Islam in personal and public life.
And my impression is that Bangladeshis are already doing that.
We have to make efforts to identify these trends and encourage them and make them feel as part of Ummah.

The insurgency type of angles are better not touched even at intellectual level.

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 04:55

SunniSeeker wrote:

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My obvious guess is that you are a Bangladeshi.
In the process of creation of BD enormous amount of bad blood between Pakistan and Bangladesh has resulted.
Wise people are busy in their lives but foolish people like me have other ideas.
Like Pakistanis and Bangladeshis coming in terms with their past.
The idea appeals to me because we are all part of the same Ummah.
When beloved Prophet (SAW) said that believers are easy on each others than my hope arise.
I start hoping that Pakistanis and Bangladeshis wil go easy on each other.
Please, please try that here on each other.
Even if it is a lousy attempt.

Quote:

Isn't it a little arrogant to focus on Bangladeshis to come closer to Islam, automatically asserting thereby that Pakistanis are already close to the deen...in my opinion we could all do with coming closer to Islam.
[/quote]
This is not a preaching to Bangladeshis in the sense of improving their religiosity.
Take it has a pleading and apology for past mistakes - mistakes that were not committed by Muadh Khan but other Pakistanis.
And the pleading is that let us not focus upon our past wrongs but focus on growing as part of Ummah.
Pakistanis have to suppress their ego while bangladeshis have to forgive the wrongs that were done to them.
That is what is meant by unity of Ummah.

Quote:

[quote]Pakistan should take a strategic view of Bangladesh as the population of the country comes closer to Islam, the tilt towards Pakistan is inevitable; exploit it!

The above is a shocking statement and is loaded with the typical arrogance that Bangladeshis resent Pakistanis for.

Alright do not tilt towards Pakistan but only accept that both P and BD are part of the same Ummah.
It is the case of bitter medicine.
To heal we have to swallow that.

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 05:01

ALIF wrote:

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Masha Allah.
This is the type of dialogue and sentiments that i was looking.
I shall urge Bangladeshi brothers to respond with similar warmth and spirit of a large heart and forgiveness.

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd September 2015 10:12

ALIF wrote:

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Brother Alif,

The only part I disagree with is the atrocities committed by Pakistani Army.

From 1969 Pakistani Army faced triple insurgency in Bangladesh and were stretched too thin to have committed “atrocities”. YES they tried to suppress rebellion as they were ordered and crimes WERE committed. But, if they were anywhere near the scale of what people of Bangladesh claim it would have been easy for Bangladesh to approach “World Court” and seek issues of Genocide.

Bangladesh and its people have not done that in nearly 40 years despite having the utmost hatred and desire to Punish Pakistan, facts just don’t back their stance. There are books written about anecdotal accounts (my Aunty, His Aunty, Your Aunty) but there are no Solid facts to backup 90,000 rapes etc. It just cannot happen.

Pakistan Army (no matter how much you disagree) is a disciplined and was stretched too thin to have done so.

Nevertheless, Pakistan should have done these things:

Made Justice Hamoodur-Rahman Commission report public immediately
Implement findings and recommendations of Justice Hamoodur-Rahman Commission report
Punish all Army and Civil Servants guilty of any misappropriation and crimes
Apologise to Bangladesh to close the Chapter

They are our Muslims Brothers EVEN if events didn’t happen the way they think it happened, apologise anyways….

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd March 2017 08:44

Myth-busting the Bangladesh war of 1971

An author discusses her new book about the historical narratives of the 1971 civil war that broke up East Pakistan.

By
Sarmila Bose

Sarmila Bose is Senior Research Associate, Centre for International Studies, Department of Politics and International Relations, University of Oxford.
Story highlights

Last month, Al Jazeera published an article entitled Book, film greeted with fury among Bengalis. Here, Sarmila Bose, author of Dead Reckoning: Memories of the 1971 Bangladesh War, responds to the criticism levelled at her work.

In all the excitement about the "Arab spring" it is instructive to remember the 1971 war in South Asia. Then too there was a military regime in Pakistan, easily identified as the "baddies" - and a popular uprising in its rebellious Eastern province, where Bengali nationalists were reported to be peacefully seeking freedom, democracy and human rights.

When the regime used military force to crush the rebellion in East Pakistan, India intervened like a knight to the rescue, resulting in the defeat of the bad guys, victory for the good guys and
Guerilla fighters of the Mukti Bahini prepare to bayonet men who allegedly collaborated with the Pakistani army during East Pakistan's fight to become the independent state of Bangladesh [GALLO/GETTY]

Last month, Al Jazeera published an article entitled Book, film greeted with fury among Bengalis. Here, Sarmila Bose, author of Dead Reckoning: Memories of the 1971 Bangladesh War, responds to the criticism levelled at her work.

In all the excitement about the "Arab spring" it is instructive to remember the 1971 war in South Asia. Then too there was a military regime in Pakistan, easily identified as the "baddies" - and a popular uprising in its rebellious Eastern province, where Bengali nationalists were reported to be peacefully seeking freedom, democracy and human rights.

When the regime used military force to crush the rebellion in East Pakistan, India intervened like a knight to the rescue, resulting in the defeat of the bad guys, victory for the good guys and the independence of Bangladesh... Or so the story went for forty years. I grew up with it in Calcutta. It was widely repeated in the international press.

Several years ago I decided to chronicle a number of incidents of the 1971 war in-depth. I observed that many Bangladeshis were aggrieved that the world seemed to have forgotten the terrible trauma of the birth of their nation. Given the scale of the suffering, that lack of memory certainly appeared to be unfair, but there did not seem to be many detailed studies of the war - without which the world could not be expected to remember, or understand, what had happened in 1971.

My aim was to record as much as possible of what seemed to be a much-commented-on but poorly documented conflict - and to humanise it, so that the war could be depicted in terms of the people who were caught up in it, and not just faceless statistics. I hoped that the detailed documentation of what happened at the human level on the ground would help to shed some light on the conflict as a whole.

The principal tool of my study was memories. I read all available memoirs and reminiscences, in both English and Bengali. But I also embarked on extensive fieldwork, finding and talking to people who were present at many particular incidents, whether as participants, victims or eye-witnesses. Crucially, I wanted to hear the stories from multiple sources, including people on different sides of the war, so as to get as balanced and well-rounded a reconstruction as possible.

As soon as I started to do systematic research on the 1971 war, I found that there was a problem with the story which I had grown up believing: from the evidence that emanated from the memories of all sides at the ground level, significant parts of the "dominant narrative" seem not to have been true. Many "facts" had been exaggerated, fabricated, distorted or concealed. Many people in responsible positions had repeated unsupported assertions without a thought; some people seemed to know that the nationalist mythologies were false and yet had done nothing to inform the public. I had thought I would be chronicling the details of the story of 1971 with which I had been brought up, but I found instead that there was a different story to be told.

Product of research

My book Dead Reckoning: Memories of the 1971 Bangladesh War, the product of several years of fieldwork based research, has just been published (Hurst and Co. and Columbia University Press). It focuses on the bitter fratricidal war within the province of East Pakistan over a period of a little more than a year, rather than the open "hot" war between India and Pakistan towards the end. It brings together, for the first time, the memories of dozens of people from each side of the conflict who were present in East Pakistan during the war. It lets the available evidence tell the stories. It has been described as a work that "will set anew the terms of debate" about this war.

Even before anyone has had the chance to read it, Dead Reckoning has been attracting comment, some of it of a nature that according to an observer would make the very reception of my book a subject of "taboo studies". "Myth-busting" works that undermine nationalist mythology, especially those that have gone unchallenged for several decades, are clearly not to be undertaken by the faint-hearted. The book has received gratifying praise from scholars and journalists who read the advance copies, but the word "courageous" cropped up with ominous frequency in many of the reviews. Some scholars praised my work in private; others told me to prepare for the flak that was bound to follow. One "myth-busting" scholar was glad my book was out at last, as I would now sweep up at the unpopularity stakes and she would get some respite after enduring several years of abuse.

Scholars and investigative journalists have an important role in "busting" politically partisan narratives. And yet, far too often we all fall for the seductive appeal of a simplistic "good versus evil" story, or fail to challenge victors' histories.

So far the story of valiant rebels fighting oppressive dictators in the so-called "Arab spring" has had one significant blemish - the vicious sexual attack and attempted murder of CBS foreign correspondent Lara Logan by dozens of men celebrating the downfall of Hosni Mubarak in Tahrir Square in Cairo. It initially vanished from the headlines and has still not led to the kind of questioning of the representation of such conflicts that it should have generated. "Tahrir Square" became shorthand for freedom and democracy-loving people rising up against oppressive dictators.

People in other countries started to say they wanted their own "Tahrir Square". Logan has given a brave and graphic account of what happened to her at the hands of those supposedly celebrating the fall of a dictator and the coming of freedom, democracy and human rights. Her life was saved by burqa-clad Egyptian women and she was rescued by soldiers. Her account endows "Tahrir Square" with an entirely different meaning.

It should caution us against assuming that all those opposing an oppressive regime are champions of non-violence, democracy or human rights. It should alert us to the complexities of political power struggles and civil war, and stop getting carried away by what we imagine is happening, or would like to happen, rather than what the evidence supports.

Such was the impact of the 1971 war on South Asians that the year has transformed into a shorthand for its particular symbolism: 1971, or ekattor, the number 71 in Bengali, has come to stand for a simple equation of a popular nationalist uprising presumed to embody liberal democratic values battling brutal repression by a military dictatorship. But was it really as simple as that? Over time, the victorious Bangladeshi nationalist side's narrative of Pakistani villainy and Bengali victimhood became entrenched through unquestioned repetition.

The losing side of Pakistani nationalists had its own myth-making, comprising vast Indian plots. Pakistan had been carved out of the British Empire in India as a homeland for South Asia's Muslims. It was a problematic idea from the start - a large proportion of Muslims chose to remain in secular and pluralistic India, for instance, and its two parts, West Pakistan and East Pakistan, were separated by a thousand miles of a hostile India. In 1971 the idea of Islam as the basis of nationhood came apart in South Asia along with the country of Pakistan, after a mere 23 years of existence. What went wrong? And what do the memories of those who were there reveal about the reality of that war?

The publication of Dead Reckoning has spoiled the day for those who had been peddling their respective nationalist mythologies undisturbed for so long. Careers have been built - in politics, media, academia and development - on a particular telling of the 1971 war. All the warring parties of 1971 remain relentlessly partisan in recounting the conflict. As the dominant narrative, which has gained currency around the world, is that of the victorious Bangladeshi nationalists and their Indian allies, they stand to lose the most in any unbiased appraisal. Unsurprisingly therefore, the protests from this section are the shrillest.

Mixed reaction

The reaction to the publication of Dead Reckoning by those who feel threatened by it has followed a predictable path. First, there has been an attempt to damn the book before it was even available. Apart from random rants on the internet - which provides opportunity for anyone to rail against anything - reports have been written by people who haven't read the book, citing other people who also haven't read the book. The reason for this may be summed up as the well-founded fear of "knowledge is power".

When people read the book they will be far better informed as to what really happened in 1971. Hence the desperate attempt by those who have been spinning their particular yarns for so long to try to smear the book before anyone gets the chance to read it. A few people also seem to be trying to laud the book before reading it, an equally meaningless exercise. These commentaries are easy to dismiss: clearly, those who haven't read the book have nothing of value to say about it.

Second, detractors of the book claim that it exonerates the military from atrocities committed in East Pakistan in 1971. In reality the book details over several chapters many cases of atrocities committed by the regime's forces, so anyone who says it excuses the military's brutalities is clearly lying. The question is - why are they lying about something that will easily be found out as soon as people start reading the book? The answer to this question is more complex than it might seem. Of course the detractors hope that by making such claims they will stop people from reading the book.

Part of the answer lies also in that the book corrects some of the absurd exaggerations about the army's actions with which Bangladeshi nationalists had happily embellished their stories of "villainous" Pakistanis for all these years. But an important reason for falsely claiming that the book exonerates the military is to distract attention from the fact that it also chronicles the brutalities by their own side, committed in the name of Bengali nationalism. The nature and scale of atrocities committed by the "nationalist" side had been edited out of the dominant narrative. Its discovery spoils the "villains versus innocents" spin of Bangladeshi nationalist mythology.

A key question about the "controversy" over Dead Reckoning is why this book is stirring such passions when other works do not. One reason for this is that there are precious few studies of the 1971 war based on dispassionate research. This is the first book-length study that reconstructs the violence of the war at the ground-level, utilising multiple memories from all sides of the conflict.

Two eminent US historians, Richard Sisson and Leo Rose, published the only research-based study of the war at the diplomatic and policy level twenty years ago. Their excellent book, War and Secession: Pakistan, India and the Creation of Bangladesh (University of California Press, 1990), challenged the dominant narrative, but their work does not seem to be known among the general public as much as within academia.

However, a crucial reason for the special impact of Dead Reckoning has to do with who the author is. I am a Bengali, from a nationalist family in India. As Indians and Bengalis our sympathies had been firmly with the liberation struggle in Bangladesh in 1971. The dominant narrative of the 1971 war is the story as told by "my side", as it were. My reporting of what I actually found through my research, rather than unquestioningly repeating the partisan narrative or continuing the conspiracy of silence over uncomfortable truths, is thus taken as a "betrayal" by those who have profited for so long from mythologising the history of 1971.

It is important to note that not all South Asians subscribe to the myth-making. One eminent Indian journalist thought that my "courage, disregard for orthodoxy and meticulous research" in writing Dead Reckoning made me "the enfant terrible of Indian historians". A senior Bangladeshi scholar has found it "fitting that someone with Sarmila's links with Bengali nationalism should demonstrate that political values cannot be furthered by distorting history."

South Asians are prone to conjuring up all manner of conspiracy theories when faced with unpleasant realities, but those looking for one for Dead Reckoning are at a loss, as the only explanation for what it contains is that it reconstructs what really happened on the basis of available evidence.

The process of dismantling entrenched nationalist mythologies can be painful for those who have much vested in them, but the passions stirred by the publication of Dead Reckoning has sparked the debate that the 1971 war badly needed - and set on the right course the discussion of this bitter and brutal fratricidal war that split the only homeland created for Muslims in the modern world.

Source : Al Jazeera

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 14th April 2017 16:57

Not Angry on Bangladesh Now

For some time I had been feeling mighty angry with Bangladesh.
It was because of their silly nationalism and their proclivity to hang Jamat-e-Islami leaders.
Plus for not doing enough for the Rohingyas.
Plus for not being assertive on part of and for Muslim Ummah.

Now I am not angry with them.

I betrayed my anger on Pakistan and I hurt a dear sister.
This I did not want.
I am worried about the Muslims the world over and hence gets disturbed when Muslims do not do their best.
But I can not continue with that attitude.
Being angry on others simply shifts the blame to others.
That is too convenient and dangerouslt close to hypocracy.

So dear Bangladeshis I am not angry with you any more for above things and for keeping a hostile profile towards Pakistan.

But I will keep urging you to be positively disposed towards Muslims of the world.

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 15th April 2017 10:50

Bismillah
I agree with the previous post. We can't blame Muslims of any particular region because if we are to get report cards from Muslims from all regions of the world, we will find red lines irrespective of region they belong to. To be positive, many youngsters are becoming deeni. What we need is a guidance and leadership who will allot the tasks to Muslims in different areas so we all towards a goal of strengthening ourselves with unity. We all have the pain and we are working randomly and so the result is not that significant as it is supposed to. We are all perplexed. We are guilty and incidents happening to Muslims are overwhelming and we do not know exactly what to do. We do know Allah SWT is merciful and if we turn towards Him SWT, He SWT will set our affairs right. We need a leadership. First the ulema should unite, they should communicate with each other and have a strong network. They should leave behind the differences. Muslims are Muslims. They should then guide the Muslims wherever they are but calling them towards one goal and working towards it and use the time and energy of Muslims in different areas efficiently. Allahu alam

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Say, "O my people, work according to your position; [for] indeed, I am working. And you are going to know who will have succession in the home. Indeed, the wrongdoers will not succeed." Surah Anaam, Ayat 135

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 15th April 2017 11:56

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I agree sister and this is precisely what I have been saying for some time.

I also have been trying to poke my nose in those issues that is not my expertise but happens to be of crucial importance for Ummah and yet lies ignored by us.

Unfortunately the discussion even at a very moderate forum like MuftiSays has dwindled to a near zero level.

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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2018 12:46

Role of Mukti Bahini

Sharmila Bose, an Indian Bengali Hindu and grand-niece of Subash Chandra Bose, has written “Dead Reckoning: Memories in 1971 War” after interviewing local Bengalis and asserted that amongst the killings during war, most were committed by Mukti Bahini.

Link : Oracle

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2018 12:48

I am an Imran Khan fan.

I would like him to sort out their past with Bangladesh.

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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2018 17:48

Tragedy with Indian sub-continent is that, we want our development. And Islam can wait.

That has hurt Indian muslims also. We shall develop ourselves, we are not dependent on any politicial setup of our development.
We behaved the opposite, we divided ourselves to expecting our development from different political parties, secular votes got divided and we are seeing the results.

Too late; we realised this.

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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2018 17:51

Tariq ibn Shihab reported: Umar ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said, “Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam. If we seek honor from anything besides that with which Allah has honored us, then Allah will disgrace us.”

Source: al-Mustadrak 214

Grade: Sahih

عَنْ طَارِقِ بْنِ شِهَابٍ قَالَ عُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ رضي الله عنه إِنَّا كُنَّا أَذَلَّ قَوْمٍ فَأَعَزَّنَا اللَّهُ بِالْإِسْلَامِ فَمَهْمَا نَطْلُبُ الْعِزَّةَ بِغَيْرِ مَا أَعَزَّنَا اللَّهُ بِهِ أَذَلَّنَا اللَّهُ

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