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#196 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2018 18:12
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I have already posted the video of Maulana Ilyas Ghumman about Maslak and Manhaj. Re watch it. If someone is not acting according to the teachings of akabir then he is not to be associated with their methodology or teachings.

Where as . the very foundations of JI are shaky and faulty. It's founder was faulty. Also according to Mufti Tariq Masood, changing the writings of an author and heavy editing is dishonesty with the author. Corrections can be written in side notes.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl8s-vTE6Is

And here are Mufti Zarwali's remarks.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMq0_FR5jaA

If you want to bash others for defending falsely their hadhrats while you defend this person. Then sir I will call it DOUBLE STANDARDS.

It's a shame that our intellectuals are not being HONEST here.

I think there is no use for further continuing this very friendly conversation. I don't want to debate a NATO influenced Mullah.

Asalam o Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah Wa Barakatuhu.

The world doesn't revolve around your likings and dislikings either. When you set a criteria then apply it to your self also.
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#197 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2018 18:16
ALIF wrote:
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This question should be asked from Maulana Fazlur Rehman. I neither support nor talk about Jamhuri Ulema. You clearly know my stance about democracy.
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#198 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2018 18:17
sipraomer wrote:
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Great and honest reply
جزاك الله أحسن الجزاء
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#199 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2018 18:26

sipraomer wrote:
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And I posted Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) and he clearly says that there is NO SUCH thing as Maslak of Deoband, listen to it but since you won't let me get to the next two points.

  1. Maulana Maududi (RA) was a PERSON, Jamaat-e-Islami is a GROUP, do you understand the difference between a person and a group?
  2. Can you point out the exact minutes where Mufti Zarwali Khan (HA) is saying that the ENTIRE Jamaat-e-Islami has the Hukum as Maulana Maududi (RA), please respond with the minutes and I will translate it in English for everyone.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMq0_FR5jaA

Rest of your post is just emotional outburst which is no need for response.

For everyone else, Talk is about Maulana Maududi (RA) and Qazi Hussain Ahmed (RA) who was the (Ex) Jamaat-e-Islami who did Mas'ah on (plain) socks. Advice to save your Salah from the Fiqh of Maulana Maududi (RA)....

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#200 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2018 19:01
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I am Speechless! You defeated me again. Man! From where have you learned so excellent debating skills. You are a genius.
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#201 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2018 19:05

sipraomer wrote:
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Can you point out the exact minutes where Mufti Zarwali Khan (HA) is saying that the ENTIRE Jamaat-e-Islami has the Hukum as Maulana Maududi (RA), please respond with the minutes and I will translate it in English for everyone.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMq0_FR5jaA

?

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#202 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2018 19:12
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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You are a genius. You defeated me again.

Well! I posted Mufti Zarwali Khan's video to prove that Maudoodi did wrong things and his methodology isn't right.

My problem with you is that you defend this man while bash others for worshiping their hadhrats. This is wrong. Why are you using RA with a person who talked wrongly about Anbiya AS And Sahaba RA.

Who edited and corrected his books, he himself or his jamaat?

He contributed in Anbiya bashing Sahaba bashing Akabireen bashing campaign.

Why should he be given special privileges while Salafies and Shities are hated and criticized. Just because you like him means that he has to be spared. Just like that.

This is the point which I am making. Aqeeda is a different issue and behavior is a different issue. There may some people with sound aqaid in JI but overall the environment which this jamaat creates is toxic.

I hope I am clear.
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#203 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2018 19:24

sipraomer wrote:
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No, did not defend him at all.

  1. IF there was an error WHAT would be the point of correction? That makes no sense.
  2. I am asking you to follow this Hadeeth and leave the matter to Allah Ta'ala. NEVER said for anyone to follow Maulana Maududi (RA) or read his books or follow his teachings at all. NEVER SAID THAT AT ALL!

أخبرنا إبراهيم بن يعقوب قال حدثني أحمد بن إسحق قال حدثنا وهيب قال حدثنا منصور بن عبد الرحمن عن أمه عن عائشة قالت ذكر عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم هالك بسوء فقال لا تذكروا هلكاكم إلا بخير


Sayyida Aisha (RA) narrates that Something bad was said in the presence of the Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) about a person who had died. He said: 'Do not say anything but good about your dead" [Sunan An-Nasa'i]

Now back to the actual issue.

WHERE are you getting this idea that Maulana Maududi (RA) and Jamaat-e-Islami carry the same Hukm? Mufti Zarwali Khan (HA) says the exact OPPOSITE of what you are claiming.

As I have always said, you have the right to disagree but don’t inflict your misunderstanding on other people. I have never said anything of the sort which you are claiming.

26AUG2015:

This is from over two years ago...

www.muftisays.com/forums/13-articles--stories--more/10369...

Personally, I make dua that Allah gives me death before my mouth or my pen utters what Maulana Maududi (RA) wrote about Amma Ayesha (RA)

Ameen.

BUT that is my personal choice.

Which bit of this post from two years ago did you not understand in plain English?




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#204 [Permalink] Posted on 28th November 2018 00:39
sipraomer wrote:
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You are so right about doublestandards. Maududi's spirit still lives on in many places. His books are widespread. He is regarded as a reviver by many even today. The Hadith about the dead doesn't apply here otherwise we might as well stop speaking about Qadiani, Ahmed Ridha Khan, and so on.

And this guy who posts links to books defending Maududi claims he is not defending him?

He should try posting links to articles defending Ml Saad and then try pull a lie that he's not defending Ml Saad.

I don't think everyone is so dumb here to be fooled by this guy's soft spot and doublestandards.
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#205 [Permalink] Posted on 28th November 2018 03:55
Guest-21907 wrote:
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As salam alykum:

My dear brother, I understand your point of view.

However, the point brother Muadh is trying to make here is very subtle, and many of us (myself included a number of times) are unable to grasp it. This stems from the fact that brother Muadh has a tendency to be very forthright and frank, which is from among the traits of the pious. When he expresses an opinion, he has solid evidence to back it up. His tone, in my opinion, is the result of the following:

1. Genuine concern for the ummah and deen.
2. His military background.
3. His slightly eccentric nature (forgive me, Muadh Bhai).
4. His vast ground level experience in dealing with community issues of a social, religious, and/or political nature.

And, of course, he, like all of us, is human, so he may slip once in a while, and when he does, he is quick to apologize.

I suggest you give brother Muadh the benefit of the doubt in this matter, and chalk it up to a difference of opinion.
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#206 [Permalink] Posted on 28th November 2018 08:11
Syed Ahmed Khan is dead so what he did becomes right.
Ahmed Raza Khan is dead so what he did becomes right.
Ghulam Ahmed Pervaiz is dead so what he did becomes right.
Zulifqar Ali Bhutto RH is dead so what he did becomes right.
Mudoodi Sahab is dead so what he did becomes right.

Shaykh Zulifqar and Maulana Saad's actions will become correct when they will die.


Halalified YT Audio


I think there is no use posting in this thread more.

Allah Hafiz. I have no grudge against anyone. I have seen my own relatives and other people destroyed by his wrong ideologies. That is why I have posted what I have posted.
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#207 [Permalink] Posted on 28th November 2018 08:27

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sipraomer wrote:
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Nice try but once again not what I am saying at all.

  1. There is no need to read the books of Maulana Maududi (RA), read the works of authentic Ulama
  2. There is no need to listen to talks of Maulana Maududi (RA), listen to authentic Ulama
  3. There is no need to Join Jamaat-e-Islami as they are not doing anything special
  4. Jamaat-e-Islami inspired groups in the West are away from the Sunnah so MOST CERTAINLY do not join them
  5. Qadiyanees, Hadeeth Rejectors, Herectics etc are Not Muslims so they don't fall into the same category as Maulana Maududi (RA). Even Maulana Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwee (RA) is NOT a Kaafir so not in the same category as Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani

And for both Maulana Maududi (RA) and Maulana Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwee (RA) and everybody else in the matter who is similar, I tend to follow this Hadeeth

This DOES NOT mean that you don't point out the errors but we have to follow the Sunnah.


أخبرنا إبراهيم بن يعقوب قال حدثني أحمد بن إسحق قال حدثنا وهيب قال حدثنا منصور بن عبد الرحمن عن أمه عن عائشة قالت ذكر عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم هالك بسوء فقال لا تذكروا هلكاكم إلا بخير


Sayyida Aisha (RA) narrates that Something bad was said in the presence of the Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) about a person who had died. He said: 'Do not say anything but good about your dead" [Sunan An-Nasa'i]

Nothing to do with Maulana Maududi (RA) specifically, let the matter of those who have passed away rest with Allah Ta'ala. By all means point out the errors to safeguard people but don't go beyond it.

abuzayd2k wrote:
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The day Maulana Saad (HA) or Shaykh Zulfiqar Saheb (HA) , I will switch to what the Sunnah commands me to do. May Allah Ta'ala give them long life (Ameen), I am merely making a point.

This is the decency which our Deen and our Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) teaches us. 

I WILL point out the errors to save people from misguidance but in a way which does not deviate from the Sunnah and from common decency and manners which any good parents usually teach their children.

Maulana Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwee (RA) and Maulana Maududi (RA)

Live your life as per the Sunnah and be decent human beings, the Salaf never behaved in the manner of brute animals devoid of manners and Sunnah even when refuting dead Muslims.

Speak to people in this manner, “These people have passed away and our Deen does not permit us to disparage the dead. However, to protect the Eemaan of Muslims, it is necessary for me to point out the errors in their writings and their speeches…It is a necessary issue and I hope that balance of not speaking ill about the dead and still highlighting issues is kept by me, Insha’Allah.

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#208 [Permalink] Posted on 28th November 2018 09:09
sipraomer wrote:
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lol, also someone needs to send that hadith to DU deoband and all the other big madrasahs. It seems they don't know what we know. Infact they say much more and much worse things about someone dead like Maududi than someone living like Ml Saad. Why don't they all speak good about Maududi and give links defending Maududi, or just keep silent as the Hadith instructs?
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#209 [Permalink] Posted on 28th November 2018 11:25
I think this is why our akabir have instructed us not to indulge in debates. Arguments can be turned in whatever way one wants.

When I posted Maulana Ilyas Ghumman's video, the purpose was to point out that if any alim is not following the way of his akabir(righteous ones of course) and not interpreting deen the way they interpreted then his views can't be associated with the school of thought of his akabir. He simply has left taqleed in the matters he deviates. This is a concept which I agree with.

I am not concerned with what terminologies are used. I am concerned with the concept. Whether there is any separate aqeedah of Deoband or not is not the thing.

Call it Ahle Sunnah wal Jamaat of current times. Call it anything else.

The thing is the concept and that is that if that alim in UK has done something contrary to deen then he is to be blamed and not the whole school of thought. It is not Darul uloom Deoband which taught him this thing and neither the stamp of Deobandiyat authenticates his deviancy.

I am talking A while you are talking about Z.

JI lacks the Islahi system and it is the collective system of a jamat which determines it's direction not some individuals. Because of not passing through Tazkiyah process, the members of JI or any other jamaat without Tazkiyah will become arrogant and badtameez. This is as clear as day.

You can cherry pick books and fatawas in your favour and I can also follow the same course.
But at the end, it's not the theory which matters but the end result.

You are talking about the law and I am talking about the end result. You want me to give proof if any Mufti or Alim has given fatawa against JI to not to join it because of so and so reason. I have lived with it's daughter jamat (Jamiat) and I have witnessed practical demonstrations of it's idiocrisy.

Any member or non member who is visiting this forum and reading this thread currently or in future. Please avoid this jamaat completely. They are fasaadis. I am not addressing the realists because their opinion is very firm. I am addressing those who don't know yet the true nature of this jamaat. I leave the final decision to the readers. They are certainly not goofs and after reading every post, they will themselves decide about right and wrong.

May Allah guide us, help us and protect our iman. Ameen.
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#210 [Permalink] Posted on 28th November 2018 13:12

sipraomer wrote:
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Wrong again so let me try again from the beginning.

  1. I DO NOT want anyone to read the works of Maulana Maududi (RA), I want them to stick to trustworthy and knowledgeable Ulama.
  2. I DO NOT want anyone to listen to talks of Maulana Maududi (RA), I want them to stick to trustworthy and knowledgeable Ulama.
  3. I DO NOT want anyone to Join Jamaat-e-Islami (in India or Pakistan or Afghanistan) because I see no benefit in it whatsoever
  4. I VERY STRONGLY DISCOURAGE anyone from Joining Jamaat-e-Islami or Maulana Maududi (RA) inspired Jamaats in the West e.g. MSA, ISNA, UKIM, FOSIS because in my opinion and experience they lack Sunnah. There are some good people in these organisations as organisations I see a problem with their approach

Now read these four lines and say which words and which terms do you have a problem with and on what grounds?

It is nothing which I have not said before at all.

Then I will move forwards and make other points. 


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