3
Jun
2013

Shaykh (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA)'s Fatwa on American Qiblah & Its critique

3rd June 2013

Asslamo Allaikum All,

There is a deviant heretic group called Ahbash in USA & Lebanon which some Ulamah even declare "Kaafir". This deviant heretic group (called AICP in English or جماعة الأحباش ) changed the Qiblah in Lebanon and also created controversy in America by changing the Qiblah direction to South-East and also making erroneous claims that “ALL” old Masajid in USA were facing South-East instead of North-East.



The opinion of overwhelming majority of Ulamah (and experts) in America of:

  1. All four (4) Madhabs (including Deobandees)
  2. Salafees/Ahl-e-Hadeeth/Ghair-Muqallids
  3. Muslim scientists
  4. And Rafidhees (Shia)
  5. Non-Muslim scientists

is that the Qiblah from American is North-East asdetailed in Port in a Storm: A Fiqh Solution to the Qibla of North America by Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller

Deobandi opinion:

The greatest Deobandi expert in these matters of our times is Shaykh (Mufti) Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) and he states in Ahsanul-Fatawa (Volume 2) page 314 about New York city that South East is W-R-O-N-G, North East is R-I-G-H-T correct it and propagate it!

Mufti A. S. Desai (HA) &  deviant heretic group (called AICP in English or جماعة الأحباش ):

  1. Hazrat (HA)'s Fatwa has given great delight to this deviant and herectic group and they are running from Islamic forum to forum highlighting it
  2. Mufti A. S. Desai (HA)'s has also inadvertently endorsed the leader of this deviant and heretic as "Shaykh Abdullah Al Harari" in the introduction of his book "The Kufr & Shirk of Ibn Taymiyyah"

We are fairly confident that if our dear and respected Shaykh (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) knew who this character then he wouldn’t have sullied the title “Shaykh” by placing it in front of this deviant and we are also confident that if Shaykh (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) knew that one of the oldest Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaah Mosque in USA and almost all existing Mosques in the country face North-East and that his Fatwa would give credence to heretics and deviants he would have thought twice about publishing it particularly when it goes 100% against the previous Fatwa of other Deobandi Ulamah and their opinions directly on the issue of (Qiblah direction) and also about using science and technology.

Mufti A. S. Desai (HA) fatwa about North America:

The original piece can be read here




Concluding Comments on Mufti A.S.Desai (HA)'s Fatwa on American Qiblah:

Assumption (Error) Number 1 (Earth is flat argument):


Our dear respected Shaykh (Mufti) A. S. Desai (HA) is presuming Earth to be flat and this argument doesn't require refuted in this day and age. Yes if you hold the World map flat on your desk then you will agree with our dear respected Shaykh (Mufti) A. S. Desai (HA). Although Hazrat (HA) doesn't say it but that is the premise of this error!

They are using what is called a Mercator Projection presented by the Flemish geographer and cartographer Gerardus Mercator in 1569

 

Who has asked them to use Mercator Projection? Which Qur'aan, Hadeeth & Fiqh asked them to use this particular project?

  1. Note the discussions below with Dr Burton F. Jones (Professor of Astronomy and Astrophysics) about projections and maps and his acknowledgement
  2. Issue is about direction and as soon as the person realises that they need to FACE Makkah, the issue is crystal clear that a person CANNOT turn to South-East and FACE Makkah from North-America

Assumption (Error) Number 2 (Old Masjids in America face South-East): 

Our dear respected Shaykh (Mufti) A. S. Desai (HA) is presuming that all old Masajid in USA faced South-East which is a massive presumption which our American brother is also suffering from. Islamic Centre of Washington DC was built in 1953, after a decade of being in plans and guess what?  The Washington Daily News , April 15, 1953 reported, see way below:

Warning:  Before reading further, please note that this is an account by a newspaper and doesn’t reflect the Fiqh discussions of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaah it is being reproduced to give historical background.

The Mosque on Massachusetts Avenue [in Washington D.C.] faces 56 degrees, 33 minutes, and 15 seconds east of true north, and thereby hangs a minor tale.

The direction is toward Mecca, which all mosques must face with mathematical exactness. It was calculated for this mosque by the Egyptian Ministry of Works in Cairo. Egypt is one of the Moslem countries sponsoring the mosque. The Egyptian Ambassador is president of the organization building it.

Passersby - many of them Moslems - keep dropping in, and some of them have come up with a frightening thought. The direction 56-33-15, they pointed out, was slightly north of east. But Mecca, the Moslem holy city in Arabia, was south of Washington. (Washington - 38 degrees, 55 minutes. Mecca - 21 degrees, 25 minutes). Take any map, they said, and draw a straight line between the two cities and the line would go slightly south. But the mosque pointed slightly north.

The trouble was easily explained. The visiting Moslems had been thinking in terms of the standard Mercator projection map. On such a map the straight line would go slightly south, but it would not be the shortest distance to Mecca. The shortest distance, as an air age knows, would be a great circle route, easily seen on a globe or a special flat map called a ‘gnomic projection’, heading slightly north to start with, passing near New York, Halifax, and along the North Atlantic iceberg lanes on its way across the world. It was like the great circle route suddenly coming to the Moslem world - except, of course, that Moslems drawing circles in the sand centuries ago had known about it all along.

Then there was the disturbing day when Egyptian Ambassador Mohammed Kamil Abdue Rahim visited the mosque. He stood in the center of the great, half-completed structure with a pocket compass in his hand. He stared and shook his head and said: "It points so far north."

Architect Irwin S. Porter said he explained to the Ambassador that the compass pointed toward the false magnetic north and has - among other things - a seven-degree westerly variation error in it."

Even so, the Ambassador began telling the architect a little story. In Egypt when they build a mosque, the story went, they gave the builders a point to sight on. Then when the building was done, the royal engineers came out and surveyed. And if it wasn’t right, the builders had to tear the whole works down and build it again.

"I’ll tell you, it gave me a few nights of worry," Mr. Porter said.

Mr. Porter called up a cartographer, Wellman Chamberlin, of the National Geographic Society, and asked him "just for formality" to check the direction of Mecca.

"He called back in a few hours," Mr. Porter said, "and of course it was right - 56-33-15."

Mr. Porter asked the cartographer: "But how can I explain this to the Ambassador?"

"Tell him to take a globe," was the cartographer’s advice, "and two thumb tacks, one at Washington and one at Mecca, and to run a string between and he will see that that is the direction of Mecca."

Mr. Porter’s own office made up the globe with the tacks and string and sent it to the Ambassador.

"The Ambassador now is very happy," said Mr. Porter.

The Newscalled the embassy and brought up the general subject with the third secretary.

"Well, the direction is 56 degrees, 33 minutes, and 15 seconds," said the third secretary. "It was calculated by the Egyptian Ministry of Works in Cairo. There can be no dispute about it."

"It’s very simple," he went on, "Anyone can demonstrate it. Just take a globe and two thumb tacks and ...."


Assumption (Error) Number 3 (Can't use Maths/Calculations for Qiblah):

  1. Take a look at Imam Razi (RA)'s Tafseer, Tafsir al-Kabir [20, vol. 4, p. 131]
    1. The qibla direction is the intersection point between the circle of horizon and the great circle passing in the direction of our zenith and Mecca’s zenith. The qibla angle is the arc on the circle of horizon between the qibla direction and the meridian of our city; and [the angle] between the qibla direction and the equinoctial sunset point [i.e., west] is the complement of the qibla angle. They say: And in finding the qibla direction, one needs to know the longitude and latitude of Mecca. If the longitude of the city equals the longitude of Mecca, and its latitude differs from the latitude of Mecca, then its qibla direction is along the meridian, to the south if the city is to the north [of Mecca], and to the north if the city is to the south. If the latitude of the city equals the latitude of Mecca, and its longitude differs from the longitude of Mecca, then it may be conjectured that its [i.e., the city’s] qibla direction is the east-west line; however, this is a wrong conjecture. And [in fact] it is also possible for some cities whose longitudes and latitudes differ from Mecca’s longitude and latitude that their qibla direction be the equinoctial sunrise or sunset point [i.e., east or west]. If this is the situation, then there is no choice but to derive [i.e., calculate] the qibla angle.
  2. Shaykh (Mufti) Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) in Ahsanul-Fatawa (Volume 2) page 314 about New York city. Look at the answer (North East) and look at the calculations in that chapter! Besides someone tell me how did Shaykh (Mufti) Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) calculate Qiblah for New York while sitting in Pakistan without using Maths & Calculations?


Assumption (Error) Number 4 (Can't use Experts for Qiblah):

Hazrat (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) has partially quoted Jawahirul-Fiqh of Shaykh (Mufti) Shaf'i Usmani Saheb (HA) in his response and skipped the last page (summarisation) on page 474 which reads:

  1. Allamah Shami (RA) states, "Where there are no old (existing) Masajid then it is permissable (by consensus) to use (Mathematical) calculations and equipment. In fact it is essential for a person (who has knowledge and skills) in this matter to use these (Mathematical) calculations and equipment instead of relying of (other) signs because surety is better than estimation (by looking at the signs). Where old Masajid exist then Ulamah differ as to whether (Mathematical) calculations and equipment should be used or not, some consider it permissible and some don’t."

وأفاد في النهر أن دلائل النجوم معتبرة عند قوم وعند آخرين ليست بمعتبرة قال : وعليه إطلاق عامة المتون . ا هـ . أقول : لم أر في المتون ما يدل على عدم اعتبارها ، ولنا تعلم ما نهتدي به على القبلة من النجوم . وقال تعالى [ ص:431 ] { لكم النجوم لتهتدوا بها } - على أن محاريب الدنيا كلها نصبت بالتحري حتى منى كما نقله في البحر ، ولا يخفى أن أقوى الأدلة النجوم . والظاهر أن الخلاف في عدم اعتبارها إنما هو عند وجود المحاريب القديمة ، إذ لا يجوز التحري معها كما قدمناه ، لئلا يلزم تخطئة السلف الصالح وجماهير المسلمين ، بخلاف ما إذا كان في المفازة فينبغي وجوب اعتبار النجوم ونحوها في المفازة لتصريح علمائنا وغيرهم بكونها علامة معتبرة ، فينبغي الاعتماد في أوقات الصلاة وفي القبلة ، على ما ذكره العلماء الثقات في كتب المواقيت ، وعلى ما وضعوه لها من الآلات كالربع والأسطرلاب فإنها إن لم تفد اليقين تفد غلبة الظن للعالم بها ، وغلبة الظن كافية في ذلك

Signed:

Shaykh (Mufti) Shafi Usmani (RA)

Checked and Approved by Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA)



In conclusion:

  1. The oldest and most established Mosque in USA DOES NOT face South-East but North-East and many other older ones don't either!
  2. It is not only permissable but better to use (Mathematical) calculations and equipment as per Allmah Shami (RA), Shaykh (Mufti) Shafi Usmani (RA) & Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) in cities where older Mosques don't exist (this has been the case in most American & European cities) in 1960's, 1970's & 1980's and may still be today in many cities
  3. (Mathematical) calculations can be clearly used as shown by Shaykh (Mufti) Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) in Ahsanul-Fatawa (Volume 2) page 314 where he gave a Fatwa (correctly) of Qiblah being North-East for New York while physically being in Pakistan!

Jazakullah Khairun



Qiblah from American North-East using a globe & measuring tape:


Qiblah from American North-East using Google Earth (Part1)


Qiblah from American North-East using Google Earth (Part2)


Qiblah from American North-East using Google Earth (Part3)


Discussions with Dr Burton F. Jones (Professor of Astronomy and Astrophysics) about Qiblah being South-East (17-19 JUNE 2013)

First Exchange:

Hi Dr Jones,

www.mediamonitors.net/afzalkhan1.html

I came across the following quotation of yours:

On such a map Mecca would be to the east-south-east of San Jose. This corresponds to a common sense understanding of direction one obtains from looking at a globe. If on a globe Mecca is to the east of San Jose (as it is, by a large amount) and to the south of San Jose (as it is, by a smaller amount), then it would seem it would be appropriate to say that Mecca is east-south-east of San Jose. That is how it appears on a Mercator projection.

Is this correctly ascribed to you?

Thanks

Response: Yes

Second Exchange:

Dr Jones,

Much appreciated. Am I correct in assuming that your conclusions of Makkah being east-south-east of San Jose are based on using the Mercator project map? If that is the case why would you use such a method for finding direction as on the surface of the Earth there is no such thing as straight path.

Moreover, how come Google Earth and every other computational software points to Makkah being North East of San Jose?

Would you be kind enough to explain in a few words.

Thanks

Response: You are quite correct.  If you were to read the entire (rather lengthy) article that I wrote, you would find that I discuss several ways of defining direction, including the great circle route  that would put Makkah north-east. of San Jose.

Third Exchange:

Dr Jones,

But what I am unsure about is that surely if I am travelling from San Jose to Los Angeles in a straight line and I would like "direction" then I wouldnt use a Mercator projection map. In Islamic theology the example given is that imagine having a huge tower over Makkah and facing it for prayers (in our case that may be taken as the sun on certain days) and prayer is to be done facing that tower and that direction from San Jose won't be South-East ( in my opinion) and I would like to be corrected.

The issue is facing Makkah so why would I use Mercator Projection and Rhumb lines? Can you explain as to how I am facing Makkah by turning South-East from San Jose?

Thank you.

Response: None!


 


Response from Mufti A. S. Desai (HA)

ASSALAMU ALAIKUM

25 Rajab 1434 (5 June 2013)

Respected Brother,

Your e-mail dated 4 June 2013 refers.

Since there are reliable Ulama supporting the north-east qiblah, you are free to act according to their fatwa. You are under no obligation to follow our fatwa. It is permissible for you to make taqleed of Hadhrat Maulana Rashid Ahmed (rahmatullah alayh).

Was-salaam

A.S. Desai

For

Mujlisul Ulama of S.A


Latest Fatwa of Shaykh (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) [March 2014]:

Q. What should I do if I come to a Musjid in America knowing about the Qiblah controversy?


A. Whenever and wherever you find a Musjid, perform your Salaat there facing the direction which the Mihraab indicates. Don't probe the direction. Don't ask if it is north-east or south-east. Simply follow the direction which the Musjid's Mihraab indicates. That is the Sunnah way. Don’t create a problem by prying into something unnecessarily.


Addendum: 02nd of July 2015: Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA)

There are some comments that Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA) has approved the (wrong) direction of Qiblah for America. This is his opinion directly from his book for the readers to read for themselves:

http://www.readislamicbooks.com/determining-the-direction-of-qiblah.html

2) The Qiblah’s direction (Should the Qiblah be identified by the strict directions West, East, North and South only? Are otherdirections such as north-east and south-west also considered? should the shortest direction to Makkah be considered as a reference to define Qiblah?)

The Qiblah is not necessarily identified by the strict direction of west, east etc. but it can also be in the north-east or north-west according to the geographical position of each place. We should try to ascertain the exact direction of Qiblah, however, an approximate direction may also serve the purpose of Salah so much so that deviation from the exact direction of Qiblah upto 45 degree is held to be negligible which means that if somebody offers Salah to a direction which is within 45 degree from the exact direction of Qiblah, Salah will be acceptable.

3) The means to measure the Salah time and the direction of Qiblah (Is there any wrong is using Watches, Prayer Calendars and compasses to identify Salah time and Qiblah’s direction?)

There is no bar against using watches, compasses or calendars to identify Salah time and Qiblah’s direction in so far as they are correctly designed, and accurate.

 

Tags: islam
posted by Muadh_Khan on 3rd June 2013 - 9 comments

9 Comments

abuhajira wrote on 3 Jun 2013
Assalamu Alaikum,

I feel apart from the assumptions you have highlighted, there is yet another factor he touched which needs highlighting. Hazrat Maulana has himself tried to dispel the mathematical connotation of line of visibility by erecting a tower in North America and jotting a straight line.

"There is no straight line as claimed by those who say that the Qiblah is north-east. A straight line can be imagined from North America to Makkah if a high tower is imagined in North America. From the top of the tower a straight line to Makkah runs south-east, not northeast."

The tower if any, should be erected at Makkah. Such a high tower that it could be observed from another part of the globe. Obviously, this will lead to some blind point (other side of the globe). But it will be sufficient for the North Americans to establish their direction.

In fact, I think that this simple formula is so powerful, that it can even solve the hypothetical question of where to face for salah in a space station. If an imaginary beam of light it thrown outward from Ka'ba into outer space. The shortest distance from one's position to the beam will become the true direction of Qibla.

The second issue with the above assumption is the point of articulation. A person standing in NY will place the compass and calculate the position of Qibla in comparison to the the true north from NY, and not as though standing in Makkah. For someone who may not be able to imagine 3d projections, this piece of information can cause a completely misinformed sense of direction.

Jazak Allah for putting this up.

Wassalam,
Blogger's Reply:
Jazakullah Khairun Mufti Saheb
 
Saleem Abdul Hamid wrote on 8 Jun 2013
السلام عليكم,

The argument about the requirement of simplicity and not placing burdens of astronomical calculations/knowledge on common folk is also propagated by the scholars of Mauritania and their followers in the U.S. who also espouse the south east direction (e.g. Hamza Yousaf).

I think this notion should also be debunked as it would seem on face value to be a very valid point. The reality is, the assumption that the U.S. is "north of Mecca" is predicated upon learned knowledge and not something that could inherently be figured out by all and sundry. It is based on knowledge of Mercator projection maps and a certain learned understanding of the geography of the earth. In fact, the arguments for facing south east are not any less predicated on prior teaching, it is just the wide availability of Mercator projections to us that makes them seem inherently simpler.

In other words, it's not that south east is intuitive for people without background knowledge, actually it is intuitive for people with *incorrect* background knowledge.

In reality, if we really wanted to apply the standard of not requiring advanced knowledge and understanding in calculation, there are a few basic methods that a simple person could also derive from first principles without having previous knowledge:

1) The two times of the year when the sun is directly above the Kaabah. What direction is the sun in North America during those two times?

2) If a person walked/sailed/rode in a straight direction from Mecca, with Mecca always at their back, until they happened to reach NYC, which direction would they have walked?

3) The ever widening circles around the kaabah argument- if we increased the circumference of the circular saffs until the encompassed NYC, what direction would the person standing there be facing?
 
Saleem Abdul Hamid wrote on 8 Jun 2013
By the way, I believe the most effective way to demonstrate the faultiness of the south east line of reasoning is to take an example in one of the extremes.

For example, give the person a globe and a mercator projection map and ask them to tell the qiblah for a person standing at N85º W150º. According to their notion, the person should face South from there!

Another convincing although more involved argument is to have other projections besides the Mercator and show how there are actually an infinite projections of a globe onto paper and one could make a map that "shows" the Qiblah in any direction one wanted and it would be just as accurate as a Mercator.
 
Akm wrote on 28 Jan 2015
Did not get it.

N85D W150D, what will be the direction according to North East group and according to southeast group?

Are you a student or professor of Department of Cartography?
Blogger's Reply:
There is only one direction for Qiblah so no need to calculate multiple directions.
 
Akm Haider wrote on 6 Jun 2015
In the name of Allah, the Merciful to the believers and nonbeliever in this world and most Merciful to the believers (only) in the life after (death).

As salaamu 'alaikum:

I have read your blog many many times. Most of your information's are false and inaccurate. Also, some of those who wrote comments here, their information's are also misleading and false as well. However, I will pin point each one inshaAllahu Ta'ala and give you the correct one. Hope, you will be honest and post my comments. Plus, if you can refute my points with proper proof or evidence, I will accept yours and I will be grateful to you because it will validate my salaah (if I were wrong before) and also those who are my students and of those, who follow my lead.
I finished my short 'alim course in Bangladesh about 25 years ago. Currently, I have taken some aviation class and flight training, hoping I may get my commercial license to join the commercial airlines. My e mail address for everyone is: emuhaider@gmail.com or emuhaider@hotmail.com. This is inshaAllahu Ta'ala, will be an opportunity for all of us, to look at the Qiblah Direction issue one more time with a neutral mind, leaving aside the fatawas and sheiks and going to the basics of Islamic Shariah rules. I need your e mail address to send you some sections of my book, so that you can also pin point my errors. There is nothing wrong to know my wrongs before it is too late. Let’s start with AICP …… are we ready?
You wrote: “There is a deviant heretic group called Ahbash in USA & Lebanon which some Ulamah even declare "Kaafir". This deviant heretic group (called AICP in English or جماعة الأحباش ) changed the Qiblah in Lebanon and also created controversy in America by changing the Qiblah direction to South-East and also making erroneous claims that “ALL” old Masajid in USA were facing South-East instead of North-East.
The Fact:
(1) There is a warning from our Prophet sulsullaahu ‘alihi wasul-lum, about calling someone “Kaafir”. I hope you know it. I know this group since 2000. However, I moved near their center at the end of 2013. They celebrate the birth of our Holy Prophet sulsullaahu ‘alihi wasul-lum every year, which is a Bida’, however their sheikh do not deny it as Bida’ but he calls it Bida’ al hasaanat (good innovation). However, I do not agree. They have few other issues, I am still investigating. However, they are now currently strongly follow “Shafe’i School”. They have a school here (Anaheim, CA), named TIES. They have some lessons every Tuesday, where they learn from the book of “Shafe’i school”, called al Umm. Some extreme salafi’s here call them “Kaafir”, some other salafi’s are careful to call them “Kaafir”. I would be very careful to call someone as “Kaafir”. (Allah Ta’ala knows the best). And Allah Ta’ala said in the Qur’an: (means) “Do not talk on a subject which you have no knowledge”. I will recommend have the evidences’ ready before call a person “Kaafir”. If you have proof please send it to me. (We all should fear Allah Ta’ala).

(2) I have no knowledge that they changed the Qiblah in Lebanon! Please provide your proof, which Masjid, city etc. I can ask them. I talk against them many times in their center. So, please, sent me the proof.

(3) Your claim is false. Actually, they did not started the controversy about the Qiblah here. A mathematician (Mr. Kamal Abdali) did, followed by an old Tabligi brother (Colonel Amir Uddin). This people (AICP) opposed it (North East Qiblah Direction). Their claim is sound about …… “ALL” old Masajid in USA were facing South-East instead of North-East.” . First Masjids and grave yards in the United States and Canada were actually faced East- South-East. Your statement: “The oldest and most established Mosque in USA DOES NOT face South-East but North-East and many other older ones don't either!” …. completely false.

(4) How many old Masjid you personally know? Perhaps you better do some study or research about the history of the Muslims in North America. The oldest Masjid in USA was established in Cider Rapids, Iowa, USA. This Masjid is still running in a different place. The first Islamic Center established in 1914, in Indiana and the concept of establishing prayer (in USA) started in North Dakota. (Professor Jen I Smith). Despite the wide spread propagation of North-East Qiblah’s direction in North America, the old Sacramento Cemetery in California, USA and the Truro Cemetery in Nova Scotia Province, Canada, stands as evidence that Muslims used to face ‘South-East’ for their Qiblah. You can still go and look for your own.

(5) The above-mentioned older Muslim cemeteries, in which Muslims were buried prior to 1937, are bearing the witness to the long-standing practice of ‘South-East’ Qiblah direction by the North American Muslims.

(6) Although the Masjid of Sacramento has changed their Qiblah to North-North-East, but the old graves can’t be changed. Meanwhile, any Muslim buried after that point is placed in their grave facing the wrong direction i.e. North East.

(7) Summary: In 1995 when I came to Boston, MA, USA, I started living in a place called Roxbury. I was living in a tower owned by Boston Medical. I used to go to a Masjid called Quins (spelling?) Masjid. Between the times of 1997 or 1998 when this Masjid changed its Qiblah direction from South east to North East.

(8) There were a lot of discussion was going on about the change of Qiblah, among the Muslims. At that time I met an African American Muslim brother in Masjid An Noor, in Roxbury, MA. His name was Abdul. He was old, about 65/70 years old. He was from Cider Rapids, Iowa. He told me that they started praying salah on the top of a Muslim guy’s restaurant and was facing South East for their Qiblah direction. After that they started praying South East in a place called “The Rose of Fraternity Lodge”, in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, USA. Later, this place turned into a first permanent structure to be built specifically to serve as a mosque (Masjid) in the United States, which now called “The Mother Mosque (Masjid) of America”. Construction was completed on February 15, 1934. This small structure served as a place of worship for Muslims for nearly forty years. According to brother Abdul Qiblah, was South East. When a larger local mosque, the Islamic Center of Cedar Rapids, was built in 1971, the building was sold. Successive owners over the next twenty years allowed the building to fall in to disrepair …… please continue reading ….. go to the mother mosque (Masjid) website ….…… check by yourself.
(9) However, my point is that the oldest Masjids in USA and Canada, and the grave yards were not facing North East … as African American brother Abdul from Iowa, stated. You can also visit the old cemeteries build prior to 1951 .. and observe yourself which direction those graves were facing!

(to be continued to the next post, inshaaAllahu Ta’ala) …….
Blogger's Reply:
W-Salam...Please do people a favor and don't fly because you ***DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ*** let alone able to do anything Intelligent. Also save everybody some time and stay away from typing so much non-sense! Thanks
 
Fraidoon Maftoon wrote on 20 Jun 2015
Reply to Saleem Abdul Hamid:

Happy Ramadan.

Taking an example of one of the extremes is not an effective way to demonstrate a Shariah principle (usul al fiqh). Example:
Imagine a person who has an extreme urinating situation of dipping urine all the time and can’t move from the bed, his taharah (wudu, bath, etc.) issue would be completely different from the entire normal world. He will be eligible for the special situation that healthy people won’t. Healthy people will not be able to follow him and make Tayammum all the time, or would be required to make a new wudu in every prayer time.

His extreme situation can’t be an example for the healthy people.

The Qur’an, Hadith, and Islamic Jurisprudence is to make our life easier. So there are rules, those apply only on special or extreme situations.

Now, if you go to a place near North Pole (85N & 150W, as you stated), you probably would not use water for Wudu. Tayammum would be valid there. Now tell us, would Tayammum would be a good example of fulfilling the obligation of being “Tahir” for the rest of the world?

Similarly, finding the direction of al Qiblah in an extreme place might need an extreme usul of shariah, which is Taharri, i.e. guess and estimation (another usul to find the direction of al Qiblah).

If you look for the direction from there, (I used both calculations from spherical trigonometry), your direction would be 64 degree South and 170 degree West, not only South (even if you use Mercator Projection).

Or,

If you look for shortest distance (Did Allah Ta’ala asked for shortest distance or direction?), then it will be North, which is the initial direction of a “shortest distance route” (use spherical trigonometry).

Those Muslims who adopted “shortest distance route” as a definition of direction have serious problem in their understanding of direction.

We can compare it with the gay peoples idea of marriage. They (gays) have a new definition of “marriage” …… as you know……. two men can marry or two women can marry and eventually, to be a parent.

In this idea of marriage system they can wait and try million years to have a baby and to be a parent …………… which will never be fulfilled.

Similarly, “shortest distance route” to be the new definition of direction will never give the true and correct direction on the earth.

Since North East group accepted the mathematical calculation as a valid tool to define the “direction”, then let’s take a normal (not extreme) example:

Ka’baa, Makkah should be straight (due) East from San Juan, Mexico, because:

Makkah’s Lat. = 21N and
San Juan Lat. = 21N, [if we follow “no left, no right” (Port In a Storm, - Mr. Keller)].”

So, Makkah is “0” degree (no north, no south) from San Juan, Mexico. (They are in the same line of parallel)

Use the “shortest distance formula” ……. Result is almost North!

You wrote:
“Aother convincing although more involved argument is to have other projections besides the Mercator and show how there are actually an infinite projections of a globe onto paper and one could make a map that "shows" the Qiblah in any direction one wanted and it would be just as accurate as a Mercator.”

Answer: Allah Ta’ala said, “And do not talk on a subject (or follow not) that of which you have no knowledge. Verily! The hearing, and the sight, and the heart of each of those ones will be questioned." (17:36)”.

So, based on you discussion about the projections, I assume, you are quite knowledgeable about the Department of Cartography, which is a branch of Geography. It takes about 4 years of intense study to complete a (minimum) Bachelor’s degree in Cartography.

However, since you talked about other Projections, you should know that each projection is made based on some prerequisites. For example, if you look at the Mercator Projection, you will see that Greenland is three times larger than Alaska. In reality, Greenland is smaller than Alaska.

Reason?

To maintain the accurate direction in a flat representation of a globe or earth, Cartographers sacrifice the size of the land mass (that’s why Greenland appears three times larger than Alaska) . Any flat map, if you see a compass rose, you will know that whatever is incorrect is there, the direction is correct.

On the other hand, to maintain the equal distance from a given point, Cartographer’s sacrifice the direction and land mass in an “Azimuthal Equidistance Projection”. You will see the absence of “compass rose” in that kind of projection.

So, please, know the correct tools before any judgement or comment:

A barometer is a meter, and a thermometer is meter. Both are scientific measuring tools.

Which one will you use, if you have fever?

A barometer or a thermometer?

Tell us which one is the correct or appropriate tool to check the fever?

Therefore, which mathematical or scientific calculation you will rely on, when you look for the “Direction”?

Will you use a distance measuring calculation, or direction measuring calculation?

Please read:

The Lost Qiblah_ Vol_1 for more info. Mediamonitors.net website.

Finally, facing the direction of al Qiblah, and methods of finding the direction of al Qiblah issue was resolved in the presence of our Prophet sul lul la hu ‘alaihi wasullum.

It was not left for the current Ummah (1400 Hijri), to be solved!

If we want to say that the method of finding the direction of al Qiblah was properly done by the current Ummah (1400 Hijri), implies that:

a. Allah Ta’ala lied (naujubillah) in this verse: “Today I have completed your religion for you, perfect My favor upon you, and have chosen Islam as your religion.” (Al Maidah: 5:3)

b. Prophet sul lul la hu ‘alaihi wasullum did not completed his Prophetic duty (naujubillah), because he did not defined how to find the direction of al Qiblah! (nauzubillah), which he actually completed.

c. After the Prophet’s (sul lul la hu ‘alaihi wasullum) departure from this world, 500 years later, Allama Razi (Born 543 Hijri or 1149 AD/English Calendar) has given better method then prophet sulullul la ahu ‘alihi wasullum? Mufti Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) in Ahsanul-Fatawa (Volume 2) page 314. Mufti Desai, Mufti Taqi Oamani, and Mufti Rafi Osmani (given incorrect Fatawa) are given example from Allama Razi’s calculation method. (which finds the distance!)

d. Modern Mufties has better understanding of the usul al fiqh then their predecessors like Imam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah), Imam Malik (rahmatullah) …….. and would mean that Hanafi usul al fiqh like this is invalid: (la haola wala quwata illah billah)

• “ East is the Qiblah for the people of
the west.

• West is the Qiblah for the people of
the east.

• North is the Qiblah for the people of
the south, and

• South is the Qiblah for the people of
the north
(Tabyin al-Haqaiq; Az-Zaylaiyy and Fatwa
Al-Khairyya).

Allah Ta’ala said, “Do not be like those who became divided and fell into disputes after the clear signs had come to them. Those are the ones for whom there is a grave punishment.” – (Al – Imran: 105).

Peace be upon those who follow guidance.

Thank you.
Blogger's Reply:
If you had bothered to read the very first comment from Mufti Abu Hajira (HA) it would have saved you the time to copy/paste and save me time thinking that you actually had a point!
 
Fraidoon Maftoon wrote on 2 Jul 2015
As Sallamu 'Alikum,

I am sorry that you did not get my point, although point is very clear:

I few look for direction, Qiblah direction would be South East or East South East, not North East.

Darul Uloom Deoband has given a very clear Fatawa about it.

Also, what Qiblah direction Mufti Abu Hajira is considering as the correct Qiblah, still not clear from his post.

Can you please explain me?

Thank you.

Blogger's Reply:
W-Salam,

Please produce the Fatwa of Darul-uloom Deoband. The Shaykhul-Hadeeth of Darul-uloom Deoband is in UK right now and we can ask for clarity. Are you referring to your source in this book www.mediamonitors.net/thelostqiblah2.pdf by any chance? OR do you have any other Fatwa?

Jzk
 
Fraidoon Maftoon wrote on 2 Jul 2015
As salaamu 'alaikum,

You are right about my source.

PDF Page: 21 - 44 (when you scroll)

Books Page # 127 - 151.

mediamonitors.net

thelostqiblah2.pdf


I also noticed some update in your blog. (July 2, 2015).

Mufti Taqi Usmani's statement is correct.

(I believe, he meant, from the actual Qiblah direction 45 degree to the right or 45 degree to the left).

We can't do the 45 degree left or 45 degree right unless we know the middle.


From actual Qiblah, that is, South East, 45 degree left or 45 degree right Salah is valid.

However, most Masjids are more than 50 degree away from the actual Qiblah (South East).


We verified some information Sheikh. Akm Haider posted.

His information’s are correct.

I used to live in Sacramento, CA, USA.

I was not far from the “Islamic Center Down Town Sacramento” Masjid. One of the oldest Masjid in the west coast. Its Qiblah direction was South East. It was changed from South East to North North East.imam was arrested because he was protesting.


May Allah Ta'ala forgive and reward Br. Akm Haider, because "no one will take my invalid Salah responsibility in the day of Judgment".

May Allah Ta'ala reward you. Because of your blog, I am able to read the book the lost Qiblah, and found both sides Fatawa in one place.



Thank you.


Blogger's Reply:
W-Salam, There are multiple problems with your quotations. Read the book again about Deoband (and carefully read both Fatwaas) and the source. And quote me EXACTLY what you are claiming? Mufti Taqi Usmani (RA) DOES NOT anywhere in his Fatwa either endorses South East or justifies it using 45 degrees. Again you are wrong. Please quote the EXACT line which you claim to be backing your claims from Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA). AGAIN LET ME REPEAT, "LOOK" at the source of 2nd Fatwa which you are attributing to Darul-uloom Deoband, is it from Darul-uloom Deoband or your eyes deceiving you? And your brain claiming something which doesn't exist. 3rd time "LOOK" at the source of 2nd Fatwa again! And learn to read. Your Shaykh Sheikh. Akm Haider is full of waffle and I am letting him waffle incoherently; nobody is interested...
 
Fraidoon Maftoon wrote on 4 Jul 2015
Thank you.

This is the Holy month of Ramadan.

You just said: "Mufti Taqi Usmani (RA) DOES NOT anywhere in his Fatwa either endorses South East or justifies it using 45 degrees."

I found it in "Contemporary Fatawa" - by Justice Mufti Mohammad Taqi Usmani - page - 22
# 8

Q: 8) What is the correct Qiblah direction
from USA?
A: 8) The direction of Qiblah from USA is
to the South-East, however, you may verify the
correct direction from the Islamic Centers in your own city. (page – 22).












---

I know how to read.

My eyes are not deceiving me, may be your eye is deceiving you.

My brain is not claiming something that does not exist.

Darul Uloom Deoband fatawa does exist.


PDF Page: 21 - 44 (when you scroll)

Books Page # 127 - 151.

mediamonitors

thelostqiblah2

However,

You said,

"The Shaykhul-Hadeeth of Darul-uloom Deoband is in UK right now and we can ask for clarity."

Did you clarify?

Thank you.
Blogger's Reply:
1) Shaykh is in Canada but the query has been sent to Darul-uloom Deoband
2) Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA)'s 30 year Fatwa has been retracted many times, query has also been sent to get evidence for that retraction. A well known position which you are not aware of it
3) The 3rd Fatwa is from "Darul-uloom Deoband Waqf" and not "Darul-uloom Deoband"
4) Insha'Allah I will post it (if Allah gives me life) when I have the information
5) I am deleting the tittle-tattle of your Shaykh because it is pure ignorance!
 
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