I Have a Purpose

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#706 [Permalink] Posted on 14th September 2018 09:15
"sipraomer wrote:
To prevent hostility should we remove something from truth and present a twisted picture?

No!
"sipraomer wrote:
So will our gentle, sensible, intellectual academic approach in addressing the west be welcomed by them?

Suratul Baqarah: Verses 120 − 123
(١٢٠) وَلَن تَرۡضَىٰ عَنكَ ٱليهُودُ وَلَا ٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ حَتَّىٰ تَتَّبِعَ مِلَّتُهمۡ‌ۗ قُلۡ إِنَّ هُدَى ٱللَّهِ هُوَ ٱلهُدَىٰ‌ۗ وَلئنِ ٱتَّبَعتَ أَهوَآءَهُم بَعدَ ٱلَّذِى جَآءَكَ مِنَ ٱلعِلمِ‌ۙ مَا لَكَ مِنَ ٱللَّهِ مِن وَلِىٍّ۬ وَلَا نَصِيرٍ

(١٢١) ٱلَّذِينَ ءَاتَينَـٰهُمُ ٱلكِتَـٰبَ يَتلُونَهُ ۥ حَقَّ تِلَاوَتِهِۦۤ أُوْلَـئِكَ يُؤۡمِنُونَ بِهِۦ‌ۗ وَمَن يَكفُرۡ بِهِۦ فَأُوْلَـٰئكَ هُمُ ٱلخَـٰسِرُونَ

(١٢٢) يَـٰبَنِىٓ إِسرَٲٓءيلَ ٱذۡكُرُواْ نِعمَتِىَ ٱلَّتِىٓ أَنعَمتُ عَلَيكُمۡ وَأَنِّى فَضَّلتُكُمۡ عَلَى ٱلعَـٰلَمِينَ

(١٢٣) وَٱتَّقُواْ يَوۡمًا لَّا تَجزِى نَفسٌ عَن نَّفسٍ۬ شَيـئا وَلَا يُقبَلُ مِنَا عَدۡلٌ۬ وَلَا تَنفَعُهَا شَفَـٰعَةٌ۬ وَلَا هُمۡ يُنصَرُونَ

And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say; “Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance”. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper (120).

Those to whom We have given the Book read it as it aught to be read. These (it is who) believe in it; and whoever disbelieves in it, these it is that are the losers (121).

O Children of Israel, call to mind My bounty which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations (122).

And be on your guard against a day when no soul shall avail another in the least neither shall any compensation be accepted from it, nor shall intercession profit it nor shall they be helped (123).
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#707 [Permalink] Posted on 14th September 2018 22:21
abu mohammed wrote:
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No!


Although Mr.Maripat Sahab is the right person to answer my question but doesn't the following statement mean that we have to sugar coat the truth according to the liking of the Western academia, otherwise they will get hostile?

Quote:
remember Dr Zakir Naik did not take any aggressive posture. He simply took the correct stand and he ended up being self-exiled.


What does the above statement mean? Shouldn't we take the correct stand just because we fear hostility from the West? Should we take a twisted skewed stand then?

And if we take the correct stand then isn't it a norm that those who stand for the truth have to face verbal and physical hostility?

And if we take the twisted stand then will we be representing the concerns and pains of this ummah?

Or is there a third stand between the correct and skewed one which we should take? That look we will not be hostile to you but please don't hurt us. We are peaceful people. We don't want anyone harm. We don't like to be hurt just like you don't want to be hurt. Do to others as you will like to be done to you. If this is the stand which Professor sahab is asking us to adopt then:

If they ask us about the "J" word mentioned numerous times in the Quran. How should we reply to them? Should we twist the facts? Should we say that "Oh! It is just about controlling the nafs". What I mean is that how can we avoid such questions by their academia? They certainly aren't fools. Or should we just say like tablighis that we are not ulema "Go ask this thing from the ulema". We are just addressing our uneasiness over your actions.

So what stand we have to take during this academic exercise while addressing the western academia about our concerns. Should we present the true picture of our feelings or a skewed like-able one or a third one which I haven't been able to grasp?

This is why I asked this question from Professor Maripat Sahab db. Maybe he means something else and I need more explanation to understand it properly.

PS: No sarcasm intended in this or any of my post directed to Brother Maripat Sahab.
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#708 [Permalink] Posted on 15th September 2018 09:51
sipraomer wrote:
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“Then indeed with every difficulty there is ease, indeed with every difficulty there is ease” [Qur'an - 94:6].
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#709 [Permalink] Posted on 15th September 2018 11:23
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I can understand that. This “Hazrat Worship” has created many division and it kills the unity.

Even the running of Darul ulooms or any other islamic madarassa in current time if we closely look at it, in a year:

1. Classes closes after exam by shaban 15th and reopens by 10th of shawwal. 2 months gone in holidays. 10 month of class pending

2. For Bakrid holdiays another one week of classes gone.
3. After six months half yearly exam and a week leave. Around 2 weeks gone.
4. First 15th days of shaban are for final year exam.
Extra one and half month of classes gone.

10 minus one and half = 8 and half month remains

5. Every Friday classes are off. In a month average four fridays. Every months four days off. 8 and half month into four is 34 days. So another month of classes gone.

So in an year classes are held for around seven and half months
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#710 [Permalink] Posted on 15th September 2018 15:48

hmdsalahuddin wrote:
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What happens on Saturday and Sunday when everybody else has Holidays? Do they have classes or are they off?

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#711 [Permalink] Posted on 16th September 2018 02:55
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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They have classes. But if ustaad has gone out to other places on Friday and unable to return by time then Saturday classes gets affected.
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#712 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 08:44
Quote:
My Quote : There academia is a different thing. If we say our view in forceful enough manner it is going to reach them. The trick will be to not go bombastic so as to give them the excuse to go after you. And that is the only risk. In anyway I am not saying that the enterprise is entirely innocuous. remember Dr Zakir Naik did not take any aggressive posture. He simply took the correct stand and he ended up being self-exiled.



Quote:
Your Question: There is one point coming to my mind. Whenever a person, prophet or commoner has propagated or addressed the truth, he has faced opposition. Not only verbally but physically.

If we address our concerns and pains to the Western academia, will it not get hostile? To prevent hostility should we remove something from truth and present a twisted picture? So will our gentle, sensible, intellectual academic approach in addressing the west be welcomed by them?

I hope my question is sensible? Pardon me if it is not though.


Let me include the whole historical perspective in summary.

Rasoolallah SAW was sent by Allah SWT to tell the world about the purpose of life.

He came to the region where lived the people who were Jewish, Christians, Sabians (?) and the Pagans.

Amongst these the initial tussle of Islam and Muslims was mainly against the Pagans and the Jewish people.

Not with the Christians.

Eventually the Muslims had a big problem with the Christians. We were assimilating their people and lands in our own fold.

They did not take it kindly.

The result? We faced the brutal Crusades.

And defeated these and continued to flourish - including in science and technology.

The some how we stopped doing the reasonable things.

The Christians picked up doing the reasonable things. Including science and technology.

Then they came after us. they crashed stones against our bricks. And colonized us.After dismantling half a dozen huge empires of Muslims.

Then around the middle of the last century the Muslim countries threw away the cloak of slavery of the Colonizers and became independent.

But the west was wise enough to maintain their economic colonialism.

Muslims in Gulf region found oil and the ensuing wealth. In terms of eschatological considerations I think of it as the mountain of gold in Euphrates that Rasoolallah SAW was talking about.

And then we land up in the present. There have been Muslims who rashly took on the western might and the west told us that these are the terrorists. This is the part of the narrative that we Muslims got to avoid with utmost care.

The west would like us to get entangled in these details but we have to be very diligent to avoid this narrative and talk about the encroachment of the west on our life space.

In this context we have to be bold, assertive and outgoing to communicate to the west that their encroachment is noticed by us but not approved.

So you have got it right that we must communicate our view to the west but without getting entangled with their favourite narrative.
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#713 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 09:02
sipraomer wrote:
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1. Who will do it?

2. Juniors don't assign seniors but it is the other way around.

3. This can only be done by those who are in the position of assigning the leaders of the institutions and when the senior most are themselves the victims of nepotism then who will assign?

4. The question is not about what but about how?

5. How can it be done and who will do it?

6. What is the plan you propose about it?

1. Good questions.
2. Let us not be too pedantic about it. We have a problem - the west is encroaching, historically, on our life space and we got to communicate to them our point of view. It is simple academic exercise.
3. There is only this marginal risk of being confused with the overtly violent elements but a little precaution and that is all that is needed to avoid that risk.
4. We got to do it.
5. Once you understand the idea then simply go for it - you neither need orders from anyone nor anybody's permission.
6. In my planning the idea is to request all those people who wrote the famous letter to the Pope that Islam and Christianity should work together for world peace.
7. that step was good on their part and now that the ISIS is at its fag end we can assume that it, the letter to the Pope, has done its job.
8. Now there is this more important job - to tell the west about their encroachment.
9. More we delay more difficult the problem usually becomes.
10. Now how to find, contact and request those 145 or so signatories to do the needful is the big problem.
11. By needful I mean to communicate about the western encroachment upon various aspects of life.
12. In this regard let me tell you I have no resources. So do a favour to me and talk not about these - take that too as a responsibility.
13. Anyone trying to contribute in anyway should share the responsibility rather than assigning it back to me.
14. Also let us foresee the western reaction. They will indulge in the same facile, cosmetic and shallow manner as they did in case of Edward Said's book Orientalism.
15. That is when we have to go for part two - to communicate this time to the Muslim rulers - democratic or otherwise to take up the problem on their agenda. To begin negotiations with the western powers about the concerns that we have. That is when GCC and OIC and the kind will be needed.
16. I have no friction with any other plans thought of by others or about using the modified version of my plan.
17. Of course there is another angle - the west trying to sabotage my line of action. This lies in future - after we have communicated our view to them.
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#714 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 13:45

abu mohammed wrote:
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Surah Baqrah Verse 120 basically tells us that disbelievers will not be satisfied till you change yourself to the limit of leaving the Deen of Allah SWT.


What I am driving at is a different thing.


I am not talking about the same thing. I am not talking about pleasing the west by making concessions or rather giving up elements of our Deen. I am talking about a different problem.
 
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#715 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 14:00
sipraomer wrote:
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Very good questions.
Quote:
What does the above statement mean? Shouldn't we take the correct stand just because we fear hostility from the West? Should we take a twisted skewed stand then?

I am not talking about compromising on truth.
I am suggesting that in spite of western excesses against Islam and Muslims we present our case politely.
Quote:
And if we take the correct stand then isn't it a norm that those who stand for the truth have to face verbal and physical hostility?

Ya akhi you should take me to task for one side only.
Either disagree with me for being too soft on the west.
Or disagree with me for being to abrasive to the west.
Not the both sides.
Quote:
And if we take the twisted stand then will we be representing the concerns and pains of this ummah?

Quote:
What I am saying is that we present the accurate case of Ummah but politely.
Or is there a third stand between the correct and skewed one which we should take? That look we will not be hostile to you but please don't hurt us. We are peaceful people. We don't want anyone harm. We don't like to be hurt just like you don't want to be hurt. Do to others as you will like to be done to you. If this is the stand which Professor sahab is asking us to adopt then:

Here I am sorry to say that I am getting the feeling that we are indulging in over analysis. Over analysis leads to analysis paralysis.

So it is time for you to make a decision whether you want to be part of the solution or not. I can take no for an answer.
Quote:
If they ask us about the "J" word mentioned numerous times in the Quran. How should we reply to them? Should we twist the facts? Should we say that "Oh! It is just about controlling the nafs". What I mean is that how can we avoid such questions by their academia? They certainly aren't fools. Or should we just say like tablighis that we are not ulema "Go ask this thing from the ulema". We are just addressing our uneasiness over your actions.

At the moment I shall say that if they ask us a question regarding the J-word then leave the task and responsibility to reply to me.

Of course I can give you the answer in advance - my concern is not what the Mujahideen are doing and why they are doing and why they have been forced to do it. I shall tell them that you have been dealing with the Mujahideen in your own way now you want me to fight them, the Mujahideen, and I am not prepared at all to do your bidding.

Now this is a slippery slope. I am aware of that. But I wish my own brother was not asking me so many questions.


Quote:
So what stand we have to take during this academic exercise while addressing the western academia about our concerns. Should we present the true picture of our feelings or a skewed like-able one or a third one which I haven't been able to grasp?

I suppose I have answered these questions.

Quote:
This is why I asked this question from Professor Maripat Sahab db. Maybe he means something else and I need more explanation to understand it properly.

I suppose at least I am communication well with you now.

Quote:
PS: No sarcasm intended in this or any of my post directed to Brother Maripat Sahab.

Since others have not interjected I suppose all is fine.
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#716 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 14:04
On Hazrat Worship


Since the question of Hazrat Worship has come up again in this discussion I suppose a few comments will not be out of order in the present context. Since the topic is of universal importance I shall take it up in a different thread.
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#717 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 18:13
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I didn't understand. My questions were directed towards Shaykh Muadh Khan and not you, who has mentioned the problem of nepotism more than once. I was just simply asking that who will solve this problem and how will he do it.

Sorry for my poor perception but I can't make a connection between your reply and my questions directed to the Shaykh.
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#718 [Permalink] Posted on 17th September 2018 18:34
Okay Professor Sahab! I am noticing that you are being uneasy because of my questions. So I will remain silent and not bother you with my stupid questions. To be honest, I think I will need another 12 years in order to agree with your strategy. I firmly believe that the arrival of the awaited one is very near and my analysis runs along that narrative. I can't leave the "J" word. And unlike many people who unfortunately think that the fighters have been brought to a stop in Afghanistan or their government has been sabotaged, I disagree with them and I believe that the dawn of Islamic victory is very near. They are going to recapture the remaining area in a couple of years Insha Allah.

However, I wish success and pray for you and the rest of the ummah who is trying to do good in his own capacity and way.
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#719 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2018 06:06
It is alright ya akhi not to agree with my point of view. Indeed I am now relaxed that we have our choices clear to us and our paths differ.

I suppose I now can get back to my work.
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#720 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2018 06:30
So to continue my own musings.

Last week I finished Martin Lings biography of beloved Prophet PBUH. I suppose I should record some of the impressions before these evaporate into thin air in spite of the huge importance these carry.

Here are these impressions.

When I read Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation of the Noble Qur'an I was astounded to notice that the book is about Allah SWT and what He wants from us and why He created the world and what is the purpose of a Prophet and what is the purpose of life and that Allah SWT is the one who decides all these things.

This time while reading Martin Lings I became aware of similar things.

For example I became aware of the fact that in the life in Madinah Rasoolallah SAW gave the enemies no respite at all.

This point never became apparent to me all these years in spite of massive input that I have been imbibing from Sufism, Madarsa as well as the Tabligh.

In the same context it is apparent that Rasoolallah SAW did not wait even for a revelation before going for intelligence gathering on the Quraish and their supporters.

Another point that was never known to me in spite of the above mentioned three sources of information, Sufi-'Alim-Tabligh, is that Rasoolallah SAW gave replies to nasty comments from the enemies whenever it was needed. His reply was very precise, to the point, dry in the sense of being devoid of boasting and emotions but very thorough, comprehensive and most importantly decisive.

Another issue that was not clear to me earlier was that when needed he never hesitated in inflicting the most fitting punishment to the enemy. Rasoolallah SAW is Mercy to Mankind and all the other worlds but when it comes to the enemies of humanity he is most decisive and firm. I can understand when our Sufis, Ulama and the Tablighi brothers do not focus on this aspect.

Another problem this reading solved for me was even more severe. I have always been conscious that Muslims have to be motivated to get up and take steps to solve their worldly problems. That has been my focus all the time and I always failed to think of an appropriate strategy, technique or idea in this context. This reading of martin lings solved that issue for me. Here is the answer - for the believers the real motivation is the hereafter. Worldly oriented people find this answer boring while Deen oriented people do find it convincing but they are not interested or do not have the courage to take up the cause of worldly problems of Ummah.

Another point that Sufi-'Alim-Tabligh unfairly avoid is that Rasoolallah SAW did offer worldly gain as an inducement. He never disdained it. Of course in one case the people who were greedy for worldly gains were simply not included in the campaign but that is a different issue.

In summary one can still ask as to how these new findings are helpful in what I have in my mind and what I plan but getting significant doubts cleared takes huge burden off your shoulders and it is most soothing.
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