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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2017 20:31

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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abu mohammed wrote:
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My beloved brothers in Islam,

I understood your point perfectly well the first time.

What I am saying is that the Imam, the committee, the local community is contradicting your point i.e. they said that this person clearly had feelings towards ISIS. He clearly displayed anger and resentment towards those who opposed ISIS. He was so angry at refutation of ISIS that a person had to ask his son to be present because he thought he may get assaulted!

All I am saying is that if your theory is correct then the son of a Muadhin of a Masjid is well known and community should easily support your theory.

In this case, just like the Mohammad Sidique Khan your conspiracy theories are being contradicted. I mean the brother-in-law of Mohammad Sidique Khan is on this forum who contradicts conspiracy theories about his own family.

So your theory is being debunked by people who knew this person...

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2017 20:48
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No! I am maintaining a neutral stance maybe he was radical, maybe he did exactly as the authorities say... Given the history of their lies I will take anything the establishment and media says with a pinch of salt.

You referring to this article you want me to disect that. www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssear...

You have one worshipper saying he was nice quite lad...You got another guy saying he looked at me with "hatred" whatever that means.

Not much debunking in the article it raises more questions then it answers, if this elder was concerned about him being Radical ISIS then he needs to explain why he never reported to him to authorities.

If they can steal the land of Palestine ethnic cleanse it, convince the entire world the Palestinians are the oppressors. And if they can Bring expert eye witnesses and produce all the evidence in the world to convince the entire planet of the threat of weapons of mass destruction that did not exist. This is minor for them.

The Terrorist on plane in Lockerbie happened 30 Years ago, to date despite numerous investigations we dont know what happened. But on 9/11 within an hour of those attacks the entire media in the west was saying some guy living in cave carried it out. Thats before even an investigation had been launched.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2017 20:48
He was a drop out druggy, so yes, he probably was messed up and involved with the wrong people.

But then again, these type are the easiest to recruit!
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2017 21:01
abu mohammed wrote:
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Strange how these guys are usually always known to authorities but not part of active investigation.

Known to authorities and not part of investigation usually means informant.

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2017 21:11
This is what Malcolm X had to say I personally always use his advice too judge claims of the establishment.

MALCOLM X TALKS TO YOUNG PEOPLE

… So I just take time to mention that because it is very dangerous for you and me to form the habit of believing anything completely about anyone or any situation when we only have the press as our source of information. It is always better, if you don’t want to be completely in the dark, to read (about) it. But don’t come to a conclusion until you have an opportunity to do some personal, firsthand investigation for yourself.

If you ever are going to hold a position of leadership along with which goes a great deal of responsibility, my advice to you would be just that; to be very careful about letting others create images for you. Always examine for yourself.

… If the press is able to project someone in the image of an extremist, no matter what that person says or does from then on, it’s considered by the public as an act of extremism – no matter how good it is, because it’s done by this person, who has been projected as an extremist, no matter what it is, or how good it is, or how positive it is, how constructive it is. The people, who have been misled by the press, have a mental bloc. And the press knows this. If the press can project someone as subversive or a group as subversive, no matter what that group does, it is looked upon as subversive. They can run and save someone from drowning in the middle of the Hudson (River), but still the act is looked upon with suspicion, because the press has been used to create suspicion towards that certain image. If a person is projected by the press in an image of irresponsibility, then no matter how responsible that person’s action may be, the people look upon that act as an irresponsible act.

I point these things out especially for you and me, those of us who are trying to come from behind, and not get ahead, but at least get even. If we aren’t aware, we’ll find that all these modern methods of trickery that they have perfected to a science will be used (against us), and we will be maneuvered into thinking that we are getting freedom or making progress, when actually we will be going backwards.

Likewise, if they can project someone in a violent image or someone who goes for violence, and you accept that image, then whatever that person becomes involved in, as far as you are concerned, he believes in violence. He can save a baby from the path of a car, but you don’t see someone saving the baby, you see someone who believes in violence. These methods have been used very skillfully by the power structure, the national as well as the international power structure. One of things that you and I as an oppressed people should be on guard against is as I said to be very careful about letting anyone paint our images for us.

The world press as well as the American press can make the victim of a crime look like the criminal and make the criminal himself look like he’s the victim. You don’t think that this is possible for someone to do that to your mind.

… So all I say and I only use this (example of Congo) to show the importance of you and me learning to think for ourselves, and especially think beyond what we read in the press. Someone can take a newspaper and make you walk backward and you swear you’re walking forward. They can say in the headline that the sun is out, and you walk around out there in the rain without an umbrella, soaked, and it won’t make you wet, because the paper said that the sun is out. They give an angelic image to a devil, the give a humanitarian image to a murderer, they make the victim look like the criminal and the criminal look like the victim. So, my advice to you is, if any of you at any time think that you ever be placed in a position of responsibility, you owe it to others as well as to yourself … careful about letting others make your mind up for you. You have to learn how to see for yourself, hear for yourself and think for yourself and then judge for yourself.
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2017 21:24

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Again, let me repeat.

Those who wish to advance these theories should rub their hands with glee because this can be easily investigated.

  1. Go to Didsbury
  2. They are clearly trying to distance themselves from this story
  3. Do research and debunk this story as a conspiracy against Muslims

Allah Ta'ala will reward you.

Easy to prove and make your point.

Jazakallahu Khayran

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2017 21:32
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 25th May 2017 00:01
In any case The Following is response is from Shaykh Abu Eesa Niamatullah who is from Manchester. He also has a video lecture on the attacks on his facebook page. General essence of that lectures our main focus should be on the victims of this attack. Rest is all secondary.

Abu Eesa.

I know my beautiful city of Manchester is wounded badly right now but please give me a moment to express the following:

Dear Muslims:

We've dreaded this moment for ever, the day that terror comes home to our midst as if there wasn't enough of it in the world already.

As believers, you already know that there's no such thing as "other people's children". OUR children in OUR community were intentionally targeted by terrorists who have no bottom level of depravity. They took Alan Henning away from us in Syria, and now they took our children and neighbours from us in Manchester.
Many of you are scared and uncertain and I understand that. We hugged our loved ones that bit more, worried as to what might happen to them. Those wearing the Niqab or maybe even the Hijab hesitated for an extra moment just to go outside. Some will even avoid leaving home entirely this week. It never matters what the actual facts are about a terrorist attack, Muslims shockingly *always* have to assume that people will blame us because inevitably a significantly loud portion of our society WILL do exactly that, regardless of the truth.

But you don't have the luxury of hiding away. You are a MUSLIM. Your community DEPENDS upon you, and if it doesn't then it SHOULD. We were sent to SERVE our community, not be served by them. It comes in the job description. We cannot stay inside now and make this about US regardless of what happens over the next few difficult weeks and months as people in their anger and confusion demand answers that we genuinely cannot give.

Our principle responsibility is to those who have directly lost their child, sibling, parent, family member or friend, and we have to do whatever we can (as my previous messages have outlined) to support our wider community in its time of need despite not feeling safe or confident to go out and live and serve normally.

There's two things I want you to do:
1. Pray. And I mean properly. Pray. Nothing will calm your fear and uncertainty as much as putting your tawakkul in your Lord to send down love, mercy and safety to all those who are suffering right now.
2. Trust your city and its brilliant people. Manchester knows the difference between you as a person practising your faith, and the criminals who try to hijack it. And if you come across folks who don't know the difference, then SHOW them that difference by being the awesome Muslim you really are.

Dear non-Muslims:

I know how difficult it can be to have faith in your neighbours and fellow Muslim citizens when all of your senses around you are telling you something different. We wish we could change the narrative that is presented to you, but we're struggling. You have to believe us that your Muslim friend, colleague, employee, boss and just general fellow citizen is at his or her's wit's end on how to get rid of these cursed terrorists from our lives.

I agree with you. We can't just blame foreign policy, or their personal social circumstances or whatever. There is an undoubted intentional desire to distort Islam for the Terrorists' own hideous ideology, even if there wasn't a single possible grievance in the world. We just have to trust the security services to bring these perpetrators to justice just as they protect us every day from daily failed attacks, and we trust behind the scenes our scholars and leaders to continue guiding the lost out of this criminal insanity just like the many they have saved without the public ever being aware of it.

My friends, there are no short-cuts in dealing with the grief in our city and it is a priority, but the Muslims need your support too. Please realise the *huge* impact of a word of reassurance and solidarity, with a people who are exactly like you but have a different colour or faith. They are DESPERATE to help, but many will be paralyzed by this horrific tragedy and don't know how to respond. We have NOTHING to do with these evil vermin but then we have everything to do with them in the eyes of the masses, and that's what creates more fear and division.

To Everyone:
Lives have been changed forever. What the rest of us must do is to not let the terrorists define the narrative that follows. Our response of love and unity right now is the worst possible result for these scum, so let's give it to them in buckets.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 25th May 2017 01:51
Shaykh Zahir Mahmood

It is Allah that gives life and only He who has the right to take it. It is a sound opinion that the greatest sin one can commit after shirk (ascribing partners to Allah) is to take the life of another individual, because the action of taking a life is in essence a form of shirk, because one is encroaching on the right of Allah.
Witnessing the carnage that took place last night in Manchester and now that the suspect has been named as a "Muslim." What did this individual intend to achieve by his action?

1. He has killed over 20 innocent people, including children and left hundreds of family members mourning and a nation in shock.
2. Portrayed this beautiful religion of ours in a negative and barbaric manner to billions of people, whilst we were commanded by Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) to portray it in a positive manner.
3. He has been a cause of many doubting their association with their own faith and possible even rejection of it.
4. A cause of further erosion of our civil liberities.
I imagine in his deluded mind, if his motive was religious, that he was doing an "admirable deed" nothing could be further from the truth, there is no sin graver that doing an evil action in the name of your Creator.
This post is not to apologise on behalf of someone who I do not know and whose actions have nothing to do with our religion but rather this is an endeavour to present the proper Islamic perspective on the issue.
Deepest condolences to the families of the deceased.
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