Difference between Black Magic and Karamat-Auliya

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 16:31
AoA
I pray and i hope this reaches everyone in the best of healths.

Sometimes a black magician is able to tell the visitor's name, address,details about his family, and childhood incidents. They are able to accomplish this by manipulating the visitor's Qareen. Qareen is the companion devil that remains with an individual through out his life since birth and till his death.

On the other hand, the Auliya Allah are able to tell about their visitors through Ilham and/or Kashf. There are reports of such incidents.

My question is how would a layman be able to tell the difference between a magician or the friends of Allah?

May Allah سبحانه وتعالى bless you all
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 17:13
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السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

I would stay away from anyone who claims they have unseen knowledge about you. I have heard about these people all my life, but even after all my travels and all the many weird and wonderful people I have met, I have never actually met such people who really have unseen knowledge. Only ever heard about such people.

1. Most people who make these claims are just masters of psychology and manipulation. They have no shaytaani powers or spiritual powers. They will take advantage of you and destroy you. Stay away from them.

2. Some maybe misguided by shaytaan and commit evil and shirk to please shaytaan. They will take advantage of you and destroy you. Stay away from them.

3. Some claim they have spiritual powers due to nearness to Allah. If they really were so close to Allah then they wouldn't seek fame and power by making such claims. They will take advantage of you and destroy you. Stay away from them.

I used to be with a well known shaikh. He used to enquire from mureeds regarding other mureeds. Then in his talks he used to drop bits of info and the mureeds would think the shaikh has spiritual insight. If he really was some high up wali of Allah then why would he need to manipulate people like that. Just stay away from such people.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 17:56
saa10245 wrote:
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Assalamua'laikum

No one has the knowledge of the unseen. Most of the time when you visit such people, you go through reference. So your friend or relative gives them first hand information about your visit and the shaikh asks further questions about you. These mureeds are trained to keep quiet and not discuss any issue with others. Like if they discuss anything power will go away and blah blah...So when you visit, they talk as though they are speaking from their own knowledge.

Regards
Faiz
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 18:43
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1. The biggest karamat is consistency in practicing and following sunnah in every action.
2. If a person is not upon sunnah then even if he starts flying in the air, he is a trickster.
3. IF a person is acting upon sunnah then.
a. He doesn't need a karamat. He already has the biggest karamat.
b. Karamat happens if Allah wills it to happen. A true wali will never say that look, I will show this karamat or that karamat in front of everyone. Never will a true will claim such a thing because a wali even doesn't know when any karamat is going to happen. The karamat happens when Allah wills it to happen due to a divine wisdom. It doesn't happen on the wish of a wali and a true wali never wishes it to happen on the first place. In fact, a true wali makes dua that karamaat must never happen because then his nafs can deceive him in feeling pride which can endanger his status.

example.

Imam Abu Hanifa Rh used to have kashaf of peoples sin being washed when they used to make wudu. He made dua from Allah to remove that kashaf. A student of his after being 30 years with him complained that he hasn't seen even one of his karmat. Imam Sahab Rh replied that have you ever seen even one incident where i haven't followed the sunnah. The student replied that no. He replied in return that istaqamat on sunnah is the biggest karamat.

Maulana Ilyas Rh used to cry and worry that whether the rapid growth of tablighi jamaat is istidraaj? Another buzurg consoled him by saying that those who are liars never think that whether it is istidraaj or not. The idea of istidraaj coming to your mind is the daleel that this work is accepted by Allah Taa'alaa.

Maulana Sahab Rh used to make dua that oh Allah keep this work safe from karamaat.

PS: Istidraaj is a supernatural thing happening on the hands of a faasiq. Dajjal will fool the people with istidraaj happening by the will of Allah as a test.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 20:12
Jazak Allah brothers for your reply.

@ Brother xs11ax
What you have said is true but do realize there are number of reports where magicians with the help of jinns and manipulating the person's Qareen are Able to tell the Place of birth, childhood incidents or personal matters. This DOESN'T mean they have knowledge of unseen infact to claim that Jinns have knowledge of unseen is Kufr. At the same time, this doesnot mean that they, the Magicians, cannot achieve this because the Ulema has mentioned how they can achieve that is by manipulating the person's Qareen. The mistake for the visitor then is to fall into their trap of acknowledging that they have knowledge of unseen which would lead him to Kufr. Telling about Past incidents, childhood events, family backgrounds and/or name of the person is possible with the aid of Qareen. The mistake is to believe that this falls under the realm of ghayb/unseen when it doesn't.


I think you didn't understand my question. What i am trying to ask is how would a Layman differentiate between a Magician who is fooling with magic or an Awliya with a karamat. We can't risk putting Awliya in the same bucket as that of magician now can we??

@Mfaiz
Quote:
No one has the knowledge of the unseen. Most of the time when you visit such people, you go through reference. So your friend or relative gives them first hand information about your visit and the shaikh asks further questions about you. These mureeds are trained to keep quiet and not discuss any issue with others. Like if they discuss anything power will go away and blah blah...So when you visit, they talk as though they are speaking from their own knowledge.


What do you mean by "no one has knowledge of unseen"?

Here's a fatwa
Quote:
Do you Believe that Pious Saints have knowledge of the Unseen
Answered according to Hanafi Fiqh by Askimam.org
Answer

Ilm ul-Ghayb (knowledge of the unseen without any medium) is the special
attribute of Allah Ta’ala. Pious people do not have knowledge of the unseen
without any medium. The Ilm al-Ghayb of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi
Wasallam) was through Wahy (revelation) or Kashf (divine inspiration).

The knowledge of the unseen of pious saints is also by Kashf.

and Allah Ta’ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.


@Sipraomer.

Fully agree with your reply. So one can say "if a Person is in line with the shariah then what we are witnessing is a karamat and if he is not in line with the shariah then it's istakhraj"?



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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 21:36
saa10245 wrote:
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I'm not saying that it can't happen either through jinns/sihr or through divine intervention for those who are close to Allah , I'm just saying that in all my years and experience I have never met any such person, only heard about them. As for those who use such claims to prove their closeness to Allah, then I would stay well away from them as a true wali would never advertise such abilities.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 23:09
xs11ax wrote:
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Fully agree with your post. Any person who claims to be a "Wali" and/Or displays his karamat is NOT a Wali to begin with. In fact his "Karamat" is an illusion or trickestry to fool the masses.

unfortunately Salafis seem to equate Kashf and/or Karamat of a Wali with the Magic of a Magician (seen numerous videos on youtube). For them all are Fake peers/sufis/cultish organizations/Magicians.

There is a vast difference between the two and ulema of deoband recognizes the distinction and admits existence of Karamat-e-Auliya I was just wondering whether they would have talked on distinguishing features "for the laymen" between the two i.e. Features that distinguishes them apparantly infront of an ordinary eye ?
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 31st December 2018 04:08
saa10245 wrote:
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Quote:
What you have said is true but do realize there are number of reports where magicians with the help of jinns and manipulating the person's Qareen are Able to tell the Place of birth, childhood incidents or personal matters


Yes I agree! I have encountered such a trickster myself and was fooled because of lack of knowledge of deen.

Quote:
Fully agree with your reply. So one can say "if a Person is in line with the shariah then what we are witnessing is a karamat and if he is not in line with the shariah then it's istakhraj"?


Yes! To a greater extent you are correct. However, these times are very tricky and full of fitan and it can be possible that the person we think is upon haq is in reality upon batil. Also it doesn't take a person much to slip from the correct path. So be cautious!

Also don't look for karamaat but instead look for istiqamat.

A neighbor of mine related to Khatam e Nabuwat movement used to go in the majlis of a Shaykh. He would regularly attend his majlis for almost eight years before taking bayah from him. After making sure that the Shaykh acts according to Shariah, he finally took bayah on the hands of that Shaykh.

I admired his carefulness and sincerity. You don't hand over yourself just like that. And even after handing over, you don't lower your guard. Remember that Aulia are also humans and they can also make mistakes. I have heard from a senior member of a silsila that even kamileen can fall to disgrace. So satan is our common enemy and we should be at guard at all times.

Be a cat and not a dog.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 31st December 2018 04:58
sipraomer wrote:
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As salam alaykum:

Was it "istikhraaj" or "istidraaj" that Maulana Ilyas rh was worried about?
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 31st December 2018 09:27
abuzayd2k wrote:
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Jazak Allah for your correction. Similar sounding words got confused me. Yeah this is what I mean. Istidraaj

Edited and corrected the post. Jazak Allah for reminding me.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 31st December 2018 16:10
I drove someone to a particular street today, they have never ever been in that street before in their life, nor are they aware of that area or it's surroundings. For them, it was something totally new.

However, upon parking up, he said to me, "There is a mosque here". When I asked if he was sure and how he knew, he said, "I know". There was no mosque in site at all, there were a row of houses from end to end

I was touched and surprised because we went into this particular street only looking for somewhere to park and were not even looking for a mosque, in fact we went to get food from around the corner.

I looked around me and there was not one Muslim to be seen in the area, in fact it was totally the opposite.

Since I knew the area, I kept asking the person how they knew there was a mosque, but he just wouldn't say, he just insisted there was a mosque and he wanted to go! AND THERE WAS A MOSQUE ON THAT STREET (A converted house)

I personally consider this guy a gem, an angel and someone special. I know it because I can feel it.
Many times I talk to him and he doesn't reply and when I ask why he doesn't reply, he says because Allah is talking to him. When I ask what He is saying, he says, Allah is telling him to recite the Kalimah!

Subhanallah!

Could this be Ilhaam/Kashf, or a Wali to be?

I may reveal who this person is depending the response and how this thread goes :)
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 1st January 2019 17:25
sipraomer wrote:
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Jazak Allal for the advice. You are right , alhamdollilah. Akhi this is a world of fitna today and as you rightly pointed out, one should be cautious.
Thinking about it today, I came to the question of difference between Magic and Miracles?
I could remember the incident of Prophet Musa (A.S) and the magicians and the spectators witnessing the event.
Prophet Musa (A.S) showed a real miracle by the Will of Allah سبحانه وتعالى.
The magicians showed magic (something that bewitched the eyes of the people).
Now we can talk about how magic and miracle differs on an intrinsic basis

Miracle
1) Miracle is by the Will & Qudrah of Allah.
2) It takes place at the hands of a Messenger or a Prophet.
3) It cannot be replicated.
4)It is supernatural.
5)It brings guidance.
6) The Prophet who performs the miracles points towards the greatness of Allah سبحانه وتعالى

Magic
1) Magic is by the Will & Qudrah of Allah.
2) It takes place at the hands of a Magician, who uses or seeks means such as Jinn, Sorcery, Trickestry.
3)It brings misguidance.
4)It can be replicated.
5)The person who performs the Magic point towards his own abilities as a sign of Arrogance.

But how would spectators or audience differentiate between Magic or Miracle? The differences we highlighted previously are intrinsic.

The answer to this lies in the attitude of those "Magicians" when they saw Prophet Musa's (A.S) miracle. They embraced Islam. They knew in their hearts that what they are witnessing is "NOT" magic.


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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 1st January 2019 17:45
saa10245 wrote:
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Miracles of Prophets are of two types.

1. Miracles which are demanded by the ummatis and/or create a hujjah upon them. After they are manifested, their rejection means the wrath of Allah in this world and the next world as well.

2. Miracles which are not demanded by the ummatis.

For instance the she-camel of Sayyidina Saleh AS was a hujjah upon his ummah.

Also Quran is a hujjah upon the Arabs and rest of the mankind till qiyamah.

3. Again neither we should look for karamaat in a wali nor we should get impressed after witnessing them. Our aim in this life is not to achieve super natural feats but to better our character and prepare for the life here after.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd January 2019 05:10
abu mohammed wrote:
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As salam alaykum:

I, for one, have a very dry temperament (khusk mizaaj), and this kind of talk causes the "soofie goofie" alarms to go off in my head. (Tongue firmly in cheek).
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd January 2019 11:24
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I understand your point, but this sort of thing makes me wonder as to how such things are possible.

These are just a couple of things that I have mentioned, there are so many other small things that makes me wonder!

Anyways, had I not known this person or if it was someone who is normally treated like he was someone special, then I'd probably start doubting him and think there was something dodgy about this persons character.

Many times I have taken this person to purchase items from local shops and he'd simply pick it up and look at it and say "This is Haram" then again the same thing for another item and then finally he'd pick something up and say, "This is Halal"

Could it be guess work or something they already had knowledge about from their last visit?

One day as I drove down a the main road near my house and got closer, a Moqsue was visible. He said, "There's my house" I said to him, "That's a Mosque, that's Allah's house." He looked at me and simply said, "Sharing is caring" I didn't know what to say except to smile.
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