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wazifa from DU Deoband: black pepper,fire,#11

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 01:56
Asalamu alaikum

I haven't been around salafis in a while and I haven't really been seeing their refutations and accusations recently, but I just happen to come across this post to prove deobandi's are deviant.

I am a bit rusty, so how do we explain this again?

I mean did someone try this and it worked? Why would someone even come up with such a combination of ingredients and words and the use of fire in the first place? Does black pepper and fire have any significance? Why 40 days? What is so special about # 11?

If it was just the words to recite a certain number of times for a number days, maybe I could have explained that.

Convince me.

Quote:
Aasalamualaykum, My wife want to stay with Hindu man to whome she loves it is question of iman and also of ezat. Want to ask is there any kind of dua or wazifa to bring wife back home without giving her to eat or drink anything? and keep her in control?


(Fatwa: 663/609=L/1429)



After the Isha Salah, take 11 grains of black pepper and recite یا لطیف یا ودود 1100 times with durood 11 times before and after while thinking your wife to love you. Having it done, blow on the black peppers and put them in burning fire and pray to Allah. Do this at least for forty days.


Allah knows Best!

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband


www.darulifta-deoband.com/home/en/Dua-Supplications/4906
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 08:27
Amaliyat (عملیات) is a skill,it is learned and practiced through traditions and experience.For it’s practice,it is considered enough that it is not AGAINST Sunna even if it is not EXACTLY Sunna. We don’t ask a doctor why he prescribed ciprofloxacine 500 mg twice a day for 5 days,after food.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 08:58
I also found these sort of things to be strange and deviant, In fact so did Mufti Abdur Rahman Ibn Yusuf.

However, you can listen to him and his explanation here: www.muftisays.com/forums/48-parenting/9864-evil-eye--ruqy...

Consider it to be a healing using a different dimension/frequency.

Strange but indeed possible (still somewhat cautious though)
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 09:13
Concerned wrote:
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I don't know what is the source for this treatment prescribed in this fatwa.

''Imam Ahmad, Malik, al-Nasai and Ibn Hibban narrated from Sahl ibn Haneef that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came out and traveled with him towards Makkah, until they were in the mountain pass of al-Kharar in al-Jahfah. There Sahl ibn Haneef did ghusl (bathed), and he was a handsome white-skinned man with beautiful skin. ‘Amir ibn Rabee’ah, one of Banu ‘Adiyy ibn K’ab looked at him whilst he was doing ghusl and said: “I have never seen such beautiful skin as this, not even the skin of a virgin,” and Sahl fell to the ground. They went to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and said, “O Messenger of Allah, can you do anything for Sahl, because by Allah he cannot raise his head.” He said, “Do you accuse anyone with regard to him?” They said, “‘Amir ibn Rabee’ah looked at him.” So the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) called ‘Amir and rebuked him strongly. He said, “Why would one of you kill his brother? If you see something that you like, then pray for blessing for him.” Then he said to him, “Wash yourself for him.” So he washed his face, hands, forearms, knees and the sides of his feet, and inside his izaar (lower garment) in the vessel. Then that water was poured over him, and a man poured it over his head and back from behind. He did that to him, then Sahl got up and joined the people and there was nothing wrong with him.


” So he washed his face, hands, forearms, knees and the sides of his feet, and inside his izaar (lower garment) in the vessel.


How we wil answer if any non Muslim raises the question on bold parts of hadith...?

islamqa.info/en/20954





Note: I accept the hadith as it's.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 11:30
ALIF wrote:
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but if you do ask a doctor he will have an explanation.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 11:35
xs11ax wrote:
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A Doctor is a practitioner. What they do in effect, is "Practice" their specialty.

They know from their experience of tried and tested medications. It's a reaction of these medicines that take place within the body that the eyes cannot see.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 11:43
abu mohammed wrote:
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it's not just tried and tested. there is a science and understanding behind it. it can be explained.

in the same way a practitioner of amaliyat should be able to provide an explanation for the amal. otherwise who is to say where the amal came from or that it even works? how does anyone know if the amal is not rooted in black magic? many taweez and amals have been exposed as black magic. how do we know this amal in the OP is not black magic?

what is a grain of black pepper anyway? black pepper grinds down to dust. maybe it needs to be grains of coarsely ground pepper? but should the grinder be set to medium or fine setting before grinding?
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 12:23
I personally can't explain it or understand most of these methods. But for me, as long as the methods don't contain weird or unislamic words, then I don't see the harms in trying it. Most of these methods are tried, tested then practiced.

The above wazifa only asks us to recite two names of Allah, nothing else. The burning of the items probably comes from trial and error.


So if a Doctor says, "Take C17H19NO3, or 17 parts carbon, 19 parts hydrogen, one part nitrogen, and three parts oxygen 3 times a day and all will be well" would we question it? No.

Even for anti depressant pills, what is it made up of? A wazifa can fix that using alternative methods.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 12:27
Quote:
So if a Doctor says, "Take C17H19NO3, or 17 parts carbon, 19 parts hydrogen, one part nitrogen, and three parts oxygen 3 times a day and all will be well" would we question it? No.

This is the chemical name of black pepper. So it's not just powder as we see it.

How often have we read the chemical names of the medicine we take? What are they made up of?
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 15:17
I will look into Bro arfatzafar's response some more and see how it can be related to this. Jazak Alahu khair.

To the ones comparing this to medication from the doctor, this wazifa is not affecting the person saying it.

Rather it is affecting another person, and the 2 persons are not even within the sight or smell of each other. So how does the analogy of a doctor, medication and prescriptions apply to this wazifa? Doctors medications affect the one taking the medication, and maybe could have an effect on another person if the 2 people were at least in the presence of each other.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 15:29
On a lighter note, let's see two scenarios.

Scene 1:
Patient visits Doctor and complains of symptoms causing his wife to stay away from him.

Doctor says, "Take 300mg of C17H19NO3. 5 times a day for 1 month".

Patient happily goes away and takes the medicine and all works well for him.

Scene 2:
Mareez goes to molvi. Molvi says,"Take fine ground black pepper after reciting Surah Fatiha 5 times a day after every fard Salah but before making Dua and zikr. Do this for 40 days and see"

Both now are taking in their prescription and both are working. Patient says to Mareez, you're doing biddah, there's no basis for this in Islam, your are a deviant. Mareez says to patient, you have trust in science, I have trust in Allah, you are doing shirk..... :)

In actual fact both are doing the exact same thing, except the Mareez is of the understanding that the additional wazifa is the actual remedy and the patient believes that it's the actual medication.

In the end, it all comes down to the belief that all cures are from Allah only and the ingredients is just a means to get there.

Allah has created illness, but no illness is created without a cure. All we need to do is find the remedy. And one of THE biggest remedies is the belief in Allah and that all illnesses are removed by Allah alone.

Then it's our choice to either use a halal means or a haram means. They may both work, but what will we choose!

Of course there are methods used that can be considered as magic, especially if we are asked to do something unIslamic, then these well most definitely be called deviant.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 15:33
Concerned wrote:
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The one taking it, could be the one affected. Once he has completed his wazifa, the evil effects of it could ward off and naturally, the other person can sense/feel the difference and return to normal.

Similar to the evil eye, the one with the evil eye isn't the one who always has to take the precautionary measure, other methods are used, like simple Ruqya and so on.

At the same time, a person can be afflicted with the eye in the absence of both parties, so why can't it be cured the same way?
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 17:00
Quote:

The one taking it, could be the one affected. Once he has completed his wazifa, the evil effects of it could ward off and naturally, the other person can sense/feel the difference and return to normal.


OK I accept that it is possible that the one taking the wazifa is affected.

But there are still problems with this scenario. If a wife realizes something is wrong with their husband, they don't run and a live with a Hindu man. Something has to be wrong with the wife as well, or she just feels like committing adultery, or she wants a divorce etc .

Secondly it cannot be determined from the question who has the evil eye, or whether it is an issue of evil eye. Rather I get the impression that the wazifa is to somehow convince the woman to return to the husband. There still needs to be more explanation.


Quote:
Similar to the evil eye, the one with the evil eye isn't the one who always has to take the precautionary measure, other methods are used, like simple Ruqya and so on.


We can compare the wazifa to ruqya and discuss that then.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 17:17
The whole analogy with medicine and the scenario you presented is problamatic for a number of reasons.
I am going to be use very simple and basic language.

Medicine may work by tricking the patient and his mind that something is curing him, and then the issue HE is having may be solved or appear to be solved. Are you saying the purpose of black pepper and fire is to trick the brain?

In most cases medicine work by affecting parts of the body and creating reactions and changes that cure the problem. The dosage is important because to little has no change and too much causes too much change and the problem becomes worse or another problem occur. The frequency is also important for the medication to work. How it is administered and whether it is taken before meals or after, is also very important as it the medication may inter act with food, or it may need food to work . it may have to be chewed so it can work right away, or it may have to be swallowed whole so it can release the chemicals slowly to work over a period of time etc.

The above is learnt through experience and witnessing the effects of medication or through studies and knowledge of the reactions etc.

The same can be said about herbs and natural medication. The cures from the sunnah such as honey etc may be related to the above.

The above is considered using the means and putting the trust in Allah. The means actually do something.

An exception to this may be that some cures from the sunnah like honey etc may also have some special cure which we do not understand, or they may work miraculously due to the will of Allah.

How is the above related to using black seed and throwing it in fire? Therefore how can it be compared to medication?
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2018 17:28
Quote:

Doctor says, "Take 300mg of C17H19NO3. 5 times a day for 1 month".

Patient happily goes away and takes the medicine and all works well for him.


For the medicine to work, it either has to be tricking the man into thinking he is cured, or it has to be actually affecting somthing in his body.

Quote:
Scene 2:
Mareez goes to molvi. Molvi says,"Take fine ground black pepper after reciting Surah Fatiha 5 times a day after every fard Salah but before making Dua and zikr. Do this for 40 days and see"


Are you saying the pepper an the fire is for placebo effect?how does it affect the body or mind? What is the purpose of the pepper and fire?

Quote:
Both now are taking in their prescription and both are working. Patient says to Mareez, you're doing biddah, there's no basis for this in Islam, your are a deviant. Mareez says to patient, you have trust in science, I have trust in Allah, you are doing shirk..... :)

In actual fact both are doing the exact same thing, except the Mareez is of the understanding that the additional wazifa is the actual remedy and the patient believes that it's the actual medication.

In the end, it all comes down to the belief that all cures are from Allah only and the ingredients is just a means to get there.


Both are not the same thing.The science is actually doing something. What purpose does the fire and pepper serve? The medication is a means which actually does something.

All of this shows that this has no connection to medication and cannot be justified by the fact that using medication is allowed.

We can compare it to ruqya and discuss that. We can also compare it the hadith quoted and discuss that.
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