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Islamic Revolution in Turkey: Lessons

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Muadh_Khan
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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2017 19:38

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh

I first went to Turkey in 1998, got arrested and spent some time in a Police station. The reason for our arrest was that the Police wouldn’t believe us that we had come to Turkey (Mediterranean) to explore Islamic history.

They told us to get some Turkish girls and enjoy ourselves because there was no Islam in Turkey. Later on, they became our friends and wanted to arrange the girls for us which we declined.

In most parts of Turkey, poverty and joblessness were rampant. 

Today (2017) in less than 20 years Turkey has transformed itself into an economic powerhouse of Europe and most importantly, you now clearly and visibly see Islam outwardly and inwardly in Turkey.

Economically and infrastructure (wise) I have seen Turkey literally transform before my very eyes. Roads, airports, trains, and Turkish Airline look nothing like the “sick man of Europe” as they used to be.

In fact I drove through parts of Greece 2 years ago and it is a pit of humanity in terms of infrastructure in comparison to (modern) Turkey. Greece (today) is what Turkey used to be!

Turkish airlines used to be the joke and it is now in the Top 10 of the world.

  1. Why and how has Turkey transformed, itself?
  2. What lessons can be learned for countries like Pakistan?
  3. If the Government and bureaucracy in Turkey can be transformed (towards Islam) can other countries transform themselves (away) from Islam? Can India become a Hindutva state?

 

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2017 05:20
Can India become a Hindutva state?

Yes. BJP won the 2014 general election with majority and is also winning every major state with landslide. BJP will once again win the 2019 general elections and could realistically bag 2/3 of the seats. The ceremonial figure head aka president will be a BJP man this July. India will soon become one party state as the opposition has become impotent but can't really blame them as they simply don't have the money power to compete with BJP.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2017 05:24
AIMPLB is facing onslaught from all directions with issues like triple talaq and polygamy. Madrassas will soon face similar trials. Muslims are pitted against each other taking full advantage of our internal differences
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2017 08:11
Rajab wrote:
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Brexit and now Turkey has shown us how easy it is to change the social fabric of the country.

51% votes and bye bye AIMPLB.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2017 10:09
Bismillah
I too have this presentiment that BJP will win in the next election too and the evil and barbarism will be exhibited to Muslims with its fullest force. I pray to Allah SWT this never happens. Let Allah SWT protect Turkey as it is showing the light and a positive hope for Muslims. I am sure the enemies won't take it lightly and they will try to bring it down. I wish Muslim gets united before our enemies overcome us. Already the loss incurred by Muslim Ummah is beyond description. Only Allah SWT can help us.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2017 16:32
Dr Parvez Ahmed : Turkey's Erdogan and his AK Party have been in power since 2002 and yet according to Economist's Democracy Index, Turkey is ranked 97 out of 166 countries. According to Reporters Without Borders, Turkey is ranked 151 out of 180 countries. According to UN's Human Development Index, Turkey is ranked 71 out of 188 countries. But do not let such facts discourage Erdogan apologists to beat their chests about the greatness of Turkish democracy and how another 15 years of Sultan Erdogan will usher-in the golden days of Ottoman Caliphate. They rank next to Trump supporters in touting alternative facts and practicing the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Maripat Abu Adil: Dr Pervez I expected a better analysis from you. Today when Islam and Muslims by affiliation have become punching bags to be hit left, right and center for being what they are you are supposed to stand as a vanguard. Unfortunately the task of defending Erdugan seems to be too difficult for you. Sir Have you forgotten that he was the only man who visited Somalia, accompanied by his cabinet, band in the middle of drought and famine there? It is clear that gesture, even if it was symbolic - and I am not sure that it was merely symbolic, means nothing to you or you have forgotten all about it or may be you simply do not know that. Then take the example of Rohingyas. Do you know he sent his, the then, home minister Ahmed Dawatoglu accompanied by his wife and daughter to Burma to sit with and listen to the woes of that hapless minority that even the world darling Syu Ki has forsaken? I shall not accuse you of colluding with the Americans to run down a Muslim leader but I am utterly pained at the lack of your judgment as well as lack of courage when it is the opportunity to side with those who are trying to salvage Muslim Ummah from its pathetic state that she finds herself in. As I said above, I expected better things from you.

Parvez Ahmed : Maripat Abu Adil my holy book teaches, "Believers, be the supporters of justice and the testify to what you may have witnessed, for the sake of God, even against yourselves, parents, and relatives; whether it be against the rich or the poor. God must be given preference over them. Let not your desires cause you to commit injustice. If you deviate from the truth in your testimony, or decline to give your testimony at all, know that God is Well Aware of what you do. (4:135)" It does not say to support Muslims when they are in the wrong. Instead of making baseless emotional appeals, tell me what part of my analysis is factually wrong?

Maripat Abu Adil: Dr Parvez Ahmed (1) Your facts are selective. That state planning should always result in economic growth is a chimera. (2) When I stake my claim on you as a fellow Muslim and Aligarian please do not take it as a mere emotional appeal - take it as an honour.

Parvez Ahmed : Maripat Abu Adil so provide counter facts to bolster your case that Turkey is a shining democracy and my criticism of the state of Turkish democracy is selective. I am using broad index data, the way most analysts will evaluate the state or d a democracy or the state of a market. There is no honor is siding with autocrats. It is even more important to speak out if they are Muslims, because their actions, fairly or unfairly, tarnishes all Muslims.

Maripat Abu Adil : Dr Parvez you will kindly forgive me for doing so but I must pursue the issue with you. I grew up with the image of Turkey as the sick man of Europe. I have not heard that phrase for some time. Credit may or may not go to Erdugan. Then we have the geographical reality where Turkey is dangerously close to the mayhem and havoc in the gulf - Syria, Iraq. Turkey has been holding on her own in all this unnerving devastation in her neighbourhood. Frankly speaking this all A-Plus report card that you are expecting from Turkey is not very high on my mind. What matters to me are the gestures like Freedom Flotilla that you completely discount in your wisdom. I am sure you have your reasons but till this moment these are not apparent to me. Please rest assured I will dump Erdugan as my hope if I get sufficient evidence that he is a tyrant. as far as autocrats are concerned then I do not remember much criticism of Lee Quan Yew. May be his religion, or lack of it, has something to do with it.

Parvez Ahmed : Maripat Abu Adil the sick man of Europe label has been off Turkey for a while. Economic liberalization started under Ozal. Erdogan's initial years were good. I visited Turkey many times. Took my students on trips there. Came back impressed that things are trending right but the ugliness started in the last few years first with concentration of power under Erdogan. As a result the economy has slowed and the state of basic freedoms in Turkey is trending down. These are facts.

(The discussion took place on the Facebook.)
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2017 19:07
Maripat wrote:
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Who is this Dr Parvez Ahmed and why are his musings relevant? What does he mean my "State Of Basic Freedoms"? Is he aware of the State Of Basic Freedoms for Muslims to practice their religion was denied to them for more then half a century, by the so-called Democrats?
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2017 06:27
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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From his blog:
Quote:
Parvez Ahmed is a former Fulbright Scholar and currently Professor of Finance at the University of North Florida in Jacksonville. He is an active researcher whose articles have been published in leading national and international journals. In addition, he is a frequent commentator and speaker on Islam and the American Muslim experience.


He is an engineer trained at our university. He then moved to US and changed his career to finance.

I always keep looking for educated Muslims with technical expertise that could be helpful for Ummah.
You can guess for yourself how successful I am in my efforts from above discussion with him on Facebook.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2017 09:14
Bismillah
Alhamdulillah there are many educated Muslims who are religious and have the fikr for Ummah. Lets not lose hope. Yes there are modern Muslims who are difficult to deal with. However they love, admire and adopt the kuffar ways and outlook, they fail to grasp that they are hated too by enemies. They are letting themselves down by making the enemies prideful. Without knowing these, they are ready to put down practicing Muslims. When we lose our identity, even the enemies will look down us. I do not know when we will realize our honor, victory in both the worlds is in following Islam. Unfortunately we have to deal with such people in everyday life. Only Allah SWT can guide us all.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2017 10:28

Maripat wrote:
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Dear Dr Parvez Ahmed,

Your quotation of the now declassified CIA report about the economic wonders of Halil Turgut Özal (1927-1993) is much appreciated.

1980s was a time of volatility during the cold war an due to Soviet advance into Afghanistan, the CIA needed allies and a Turkish president who was at the world bank and had fantastic relationship with successive American Governments was a God-send. His “reforms” are over exaggerated because they failed to materialise into tangible benefit for the Turkish people.

You say that the Qur’aan commands you to be “fair and just” but you seem to be ignoring the economic upturn during Erdogan which even his critics admit. I have looked up Turkish economic factors during the last 20 years but I will simply quote you the Economist (2016):

Turkey has made great economic strides in the past 15 years. It has become a trusted supplier of high-quality consumer goods and is now Europe’s biggest manufacturer of television sets and light commercial vehicles. Its capital goods pass muster in Germany for their precision. Turkey is also the world’s eighth-biggest food producer and sixth-most-popular tourist destination. Forty-three of the top 250 international construction firms are Turkish.

If you have travelled through Turkey (Anatolia) in particular then over the past 20 years you will not fail to notice factories upon factories producing goods (thus providing jobs). Turkish people haven’t failed to notice this.

Turkish economy has indeed slowed down considerably and there are many tangible reasons for it:

  1. Chaos on 3 sides i.e. Iraq, Syria have been unstable and Iran has been under sanctions for over a decade

  2. Kurdish now have a homeland in Iraq which has emboldened them to try their luck in Turkey so Turkey has a serious and grave threat within its borders

  3. Europe hasn’t forgotten about the “Ottomans” so a resurgent Islam in Turkey is a threat to their ideology

  4. The Secularists (guardians of Kemalist doctrine) are also threatened by the rise of Islam

If you are fair and just then you would know that Turkish people have a fantastic history of upholding to the values to Islam. This is their history and it was ripped away from them and a false ideology dictated to them at the barrel of a Gun.

They have risen and have told the world that they would like to get back to the business of Islam.

The rise of Islam in Turkey is not just down to Erdogan, it’s a spiritual calling of the Nation which had been deprived for nearly a century.

I have no doubts that Turkish people will pay a heavy price for their choice because Europe will NEVER ACCEPT a Nation with 75 million people whose skin is WHITE but their heart beats for the EAST.  Turkey must never be allowed to become Islamic!

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2017 11:26
Democratic Europe:

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2017 15:23
As salamu alaikum no time no see. I love writing to these kind of threads
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2017 15:43
I have read comments on Turkey. I agree some of the things it is said about Turkey. I want to say it would be total unjustice to ignore good things Turkey has done and compare Turkey with Western standards however i also think it wrong to completely the ignore his wrong actions as well.

This referandum has fuelled polarization and i think this is not good. Turks were already polarized but i believe Erdogan needs to be diplomatic in this and not let its real enemies to take advandage from this polarization. Because he is not the President of the 51% of the population, he is the President of 80 million Turks. He should not try to satify his opponents when it comes to Islam but if some of his policies that are not related with Islam then he needs to think about Turkish citizens. Kemalist soliders(meaning seculars) are the ones who are easy to react. We are seeing they are angry and protesting to the results. Normally it is classic of seculars to say Erdogan had cheated. It wasnt made as big deal until GreyWolf seculars supported them as we have seen coalition of GreyWolf seculars (they are turkish nationalist but with secular views ) recently Kurdish Party as well in this referandum. These people not only have some charisma among their followers but have played important role in propagating No under unfair conditions such as they werent allowed to make meetings as AKP had held. There was Yes posters everywhere with few No posters. Despite these constraints they increased No votes. When you dont reduce tensions and not investigate cheating allegations than this creates serious problem as lack of trust. You have so many enemies do you want to give advantage of this weakness? If you dont reduce tentions in the society everyone is effected via mass protest that happened in Gezi. People start hurting eachother. Unfortunately during referandum campaign YES followers and NO followers attacked each other.

It doesnt matter whether he cheated in this or not but what matters is you need to unite your citizens and not let your enemies take advantage. Erdogan needs to be different than previous Turkish president counterparts, he needs to stop polarization as well. Because if he is also polarizing then what is his difference from seculars? Just an example how correct it is to say to your opposition turkish citizens terrorists because they say no to you? Polarization creates stigmatization and hatred.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2017 15:59
I understand why the Ummah is trusting him. However there are some things not many know about him. I have a balance approach about him as i live in his 15 year rule. I praise for good things he has done for Islam and i also criticise his neoliberal approaches too(this is about his policies towards squatter housings)

My personal view is this new presidency system is a very dangerous system because he will not live forever and what if an anti Islamist person comes to power. In new system president has the all the power. Can anyone gurantee a secular person wouldnt come to power and turn the country back to what it was in early Republic.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2017 16:14
AishaZaynap wrote:
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a sign of a good leader is he lays the groundwork and foundations so that when he leaves someone worthy is there to take his place. he is doing alot of work on grass roots level and has cleared out his govt from any potential backstabbers. look at egypt for example. a shaytan ruled for 30 plus years and despite someone good and decent taking over the shaytan before him had the entire system set up in such a way that morsi was underminded from the start. imagine erodgan could do this but for pro islamic principles so if a secularist he would either be forced out or have no support
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