Create an account
Most Reputable Members

Comprehensive Pakistan Thread

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Post New Topic Filter by poster  
Topic Appreciation
Appreciate
The following members appreciate this topic: abu mohammed, abuzayd2k, bint e aisha
bint e aisha
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Joined:
7th Feb 2017
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
97
Gender:
Sister
Reputation:
54
#16 [Permalink] Posted on 15th April 2017 17:24
WATANIAT
In taza khudaon main bara sab se watan hai
Jo pairahan is ka hai, mazhab ka kafan hai
Of all the new false gods, the biggest is the motherland
The garment of this idea is actually the death shroud of religion

I haven't understood these verses yet.
You don't have to change your attitude, Sir. Actually I need to learn to keep my sentiments and patriotism aside.
Wassalam
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
Site Support
Please DONATE generously towards Muftisays

We spend hundreds of hours ensuring you receive a quality service from this site. We do not fall into the advertisement schemes as all the ads contain elements of Haraam including Haraam Islamic links. Please consider setting up a £1 monthly donation. May Allah (swt) reward you.

muslimman
Rank Image
muslimman's avatar
Offline
Joined:
13th Jul 2015
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
46
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
57
#17 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2017 17:44
Maripat wrote:
View original post


Hassan Nisar is a man who has liberal and secular ideals.He does use the 'Islam' card in that he tries to say that people nowadays are not following real Islam(referring to Ulama and the religious people) and that his own 'distorted' version of Islam(where the rulings are relaxed and everything upside down) is the truth.
report post quote code quick quote reply
Agree x 1
Umm Khadeejah
Rank Image
Offline
Joined:
22nd Mar 2017
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
49
Gender:
Sister
Reputation:
43
#18 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2017 10:28
Bismillah
I had this question in my mind. When Pakistan, a Muslim majority nation was formed, they could have easily established Islamic shariah. Muslims including many ulema fought against the British rule and sacrificed a lot but when Muslims got the opportunity to form its own govt, whey didn't they form a Islamic govt? How did the ulema allow them to form a govt other than Islamic? Didn't ulema and Muslims rebel against it?
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7436
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5886
#19 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2017 10:35

Umm Khadeejah wrote:
View original post

A Walk through the Constitution of Pakistan

Pakistan was never supposed to be an independent country, it was supposed to be a “state” within India where Muslims could have freedom to govern. Allamah Iqbal (RA) envisaged Pakistan as follows:

India is a continent of human groups belonging to different races, speaking different languages, and professing different religions [...] Personally, I would like to see the Punjab, North-West Frontier Province, Sindh and Baluchistan amalgamated into a single State. Self-government within the British Empire, or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims, at least of North-West India.

However, the events of 1945 disillusioned Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) (and the Ulama) alongside him that it was not possible to expect fair treatment from Hindus, thus the idea of (Pakistan) as a independent country emerged.

Within a period of two years the struggle changed from trying to get autonomy for Indian Muslims to independence for Indian Muslims.

1948-1949:

The idea was always to establish an Islamic state (whether it was autonomous state) or independent country and the objectives resolution (precursor to Pakistani Constitution) states that:

  1. Sovereignty over the entire universe belongs to Allah Almighty alone and the authority which He has delegated to the state of Pakistan, through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust.[2]
  2. This Constituent Assembly representing the people of Pakistan resolves to frame a constitution for the sovereign independent state of Pakistan.
  3. The state shall exercise its powers and authority through the chosen representatives of the people.
  4. The principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice, as enunciated by Islam, shall be fully observed.
  5. The Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah.
  6. Adequate provision shall be made for the minorities to freely progress and practice their religions and develop their cultures.
  7. Pakistan shall be a federation and its constituent units will be autonomous.
  8. Fundamental rights shall be guaranteed. They include equality of status, of opportunity and before law, social, economic and political justice, and freedom of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship and association, subject to law and public morality.
  9. Adequate provisions shall be made to safeguard the legitimate interests of minorities and backward and depressed classes.
  10. The independence of the judiciary shall be fully secured.
  11. The integrity of the territories of the federation, its independence and all its rights, including its sovereign rights on land, sea and air shall be safeguarded.
  12. The people of Pakistan may prosper and attain their rightful and honored place among the nations of the world and make their full contribution towards international peace and progress and happiness of humanity.

1949-1973:

There was little effort in streamlining the constitution and the objectives resolution was given the same order as any other article. Legally, this means that objectives resolution didn’t or couldn’t supersede other  articles.

Ulama took a back seat and there was no push to constitutionally enact laws which were Islamic.

1973-1974

Massive agitation across Pakistan by Muslims (led by Ulama) and it resulted in two changes to the constitution:

Article 227:

227. Provisions relating to the Holy Quran and Sunnah.-(1) All existing laws shall be brought in conformity with the Injunctions of Islam as laid down in the Holy Quran and Sunnah, in this Part referred to as the Injunctions of Islam, and no law shall be enacted which is repugnant to such injunctions.

1[Explanation.-In the application of this clause to the personal law of any Muslim sect, the expression “Quran and Sunnah” shall mean the Quran and Sunnah as interpreted by that sect.]

(2) Effect shall be given to the provisions of clause (1) only in the manner provided in this Part.

(3) Nothing in this Part shall affect the personal laws of non-Muslim citizens or their status as citizens.

Second Amendment:

A person who does not believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of The Prophethood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him), the last of the Prophets or claims to be a Prophet, in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever, after Muhammad (Peace be upon him), or recognizes such a claimant as a Prophet or religious reformer, is not a Muslim for the purposes of the Constitution or law.

1974-1977

Muslims were emboldened and wanted Islam. For the second time in the history of Pakistan (Deobandees, Barelwees, Salafees, Shias) all united and launched a National movement for enactment of Shariah.

Government of Bhutto was getting weaker by the day.

5th of July 1977:

On the 5th of July 1977, American backed General Ziaul-Haq launched operation Fair Play and imposed Martial Law.

Muslims of Pakistan and Ulama were duped into thinking that he will bring Islam so the national uprising was disbanded.

1977-1988:

General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq was a dictator and there was continuous uprising against his military rule. He couldn’t count on political parties so he courted Islamic Scholars to gain legitimacy.

Ulama responded to him like he was a Messiah.

For the first time in the history of Pakistan, he could have implemented Islam (if he wanted to) but he made some gestures to placate Ulama and they fell for it.

He streamlined the working of Islamic ideology council who would consider the constitution and ensure that the laws are Islamic.

2002-2007:

For the third time in the history of Pakistan (Deobandees, Barelwees, Salafees, Shias) joined forces against Pervaiz Musharraf and became politically active.

Pervaiz Musharraf was also a dictator and there was continuous uprising against his military rule. Once again, Muslims of Pakistan were duped into thinking that they had some independence.

2005-2008:

Islamic alliance collapsed and the Ulama were humiliated in the next elections.

2008-2017:

No progress...

report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
bint e aisha
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Joined:
7th Feb 2017
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
97
Gender:
Sister
Reputation:
54
#20 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2017 10:48
report post quote code quick quote reply
bint e aisha
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Joined:
7th Feb 2017
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
97
Gender:
Sister
Reputation:
54
#21 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2017 11:46
Umm Khadeejah wrote:
View original post

This is not completely related to your question but these are some of my thoughts:

Main reasons of crisis are those people who are secular-minded and they are causing confusion about the creation of Pakistan.
What is the meaning of Pakistan?
What was the vision of Quaid?
There are people who criticize the "Two Nation Theory".
"Did Jinnah want a secular or Islamic Pakistan?" Journalists consider this question debatable!

Yes, ulama are doing their job thats why Pakistan is still surviving as a "Muslim" nation. But I hate it when they appear on TV and they are brutally insulted by those liberals.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7436
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5886
#22 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2017 11:55

bint e aisha wrote:
View original post

Was Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) a Secular?

Heck No! As he got closer to his last days his general references about Muhammadans and Islam, changed to specific references about Qur'aan and Sunnah and he let no doubt that he wanted Islam to play a central role in politics.

No way Muhammad Ali Jinnah (RA) was Secular, how can someone Secular come up with these words?

1947-1948:

  1. Sovereignty over the entire universe belongs to Allah Almighty alone and the authority which He has delegated to the state of Pakistan, through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust.
  2. The Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah.

1948:

When we say 'This flag (Muslim League's flag) is the flag of Islam' they think we are introducing religion into politics - a fact of which we are proud. Islam gives us a complete code. It is not only religion but it contains laws, philosophy and politics. In fact, it contains everything that matters to a man from morning to night. When we talk of Islam we take it as all embracing word. We do not mean any ill. The foundation of our Islamic code is that we stand for liberty, equality and fraternity.

I cannot understand the logic of those who have been deliberately and mischievously propagating that the Constitution of Pakistan will not be based on Islamic Sharia. Islamic principles today are as much applicable to life as they were 1300 years ago.

1945:

Pakistan not only means freedom and independence but Muslims ideology which has to be preserved which has come to us a precious gift and treasure and which we hope, others will share with us.

1941:

The Quran is the general code for the Muslims, a religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal and penal code. It regulates every thing, from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life, from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body, from the rights of all to those of each individual from morality to crime; from punishment here to that in the life to come, and our Holy Prophet Mohammad (Peace by upon Him) has enjoined on us that every Musalman should posses a copy of the Quran and be his own priest. Therefore, Islam is not merely confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines or ritual and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society, every department of life, collective and individual.

1940:

www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/txt_ji...

"There is one point more which has been troubling me very much of late and one [about] which I want you to think carefully and that is the question of Hindu-Muhammadan unity. I have devoted most of my time during the last six months to the study of Muslim history and Muslim law and I am inclined to think it is neither possible nor practicable. Assuming and admitting the sincerity of Mohammadan leaders in the non-cooperation movement I think their religion provides an effective bar to anything of the kind.

"You remember the conversation I reported to you in Calcutta which I had with Hakim Ajmal Khan and Dr. Kitchlew. There is no finer Muhammadan in Hindustan than Hakim Ajmal Khan, but can any Muslim leader over-ride the Quran? I can only hope that my reading of Islamic law is incorrect.

report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
Agree x 1
bint e aisha
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Joined:
7th Feb 2017
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
97
Gender:
Sister
Reputation:
54
#23 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2017 12:07
report post quote code quick quote reply
Maripat
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Online
Joined:
27th Mar 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
1104
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
1438
#24 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2017 06:56
muslimman wrote:
View original post



Quote:
Hassan Nisar is a man who has liberal and secular ideals.He does use the 'Islam' card in that he tries to say that people nowadays are not following real Islam(referring to Ulama and the religious people) and that his own 'distorted' version of Islam(where the rulings are relaxed and everything upside down) is the truth.


I completely agree with your views my brother.

Yet he needs to be refuted. By not refuting him and by not putting him in his place we are failing in protecting Islam and Muslims. We must refute each and every single idea with which he has been polluting the public discourse.

Since we have not been refuting him the public, including Muslims, will assume that what he is saying is the truth. The end result will be that Muslims in general, not Pakistanis only, will be taken as uneducated, uncultured, unrefined, silly imbeciles. He himself might not be realizing that but that is what the end product of his efforts is.

He does think that he is extra smart but the ground reality is that his vision does not rise above fault finding.

In view of that we have this onerus task of cleaning the mess he has been creating.

I was expecting that our Pakistani brothers and sisters will do the needful. Somehow they have not risen up to the task. I do intend to do refute a representative number of his ideas. I suppose till then our brothers and sisters will not realize either the damage he has been inflicting not only on Pakistanis but the Ummah as such. Nor our brothers and sisters will realize the benefits of this apparently defensive activity of refuting a very visible journalist from Pakistan.

You have to be little bit patient to see my sample refutations of Hassan Nisar because I have to clear some back log comments in this thread and the Turkey thread that is active at this moment. I am glad that in these two threads some very interesting discussion is going on.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Maripat
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Online
Joined:
27th Mar 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
1104
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
1438
#25 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd April 2017 15:59
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Maripat
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Online
Joined:
27th Mar 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
1104
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
1438
#26 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd April 2017 16:36
Do not be defensive about Pakistan


Even if people like me keep criticizing creation of Pakistan even then Pakistanis should never be defensive about their country.

I have to keep cribbing about two nation theory and the creation of Pakistan because the bill for its creation came to my mailbox.

Pakistanis have all the right to look at the things from their own perspective.

When Muslims of India realized that the British will have to finally leave India then many of them got worried about their position in post British Raj India. They felt that they might get overwhelmed by the majority community, the Hindus, in independent India.

Their were not false. Recent events in India have proved that their reasons for being wary were absolutely correct.

So why should they have been defensive about creation of their country.

Above is argument one.

Now I give argument two.
If some of the Muslims got a small country, roughly of the size of the state of UP in India, why should the detractors have a stomach ache?

Then the third argument.
If the people living in the area that is Pakistan today adopted Islam as their way of life then why should the majority community in India feel as if the Muslims have stolen something from them?

Then the final argument that Pakistanis simply do not employ.
If Hinduism was really such a great religion then why they are the only ones scared that their people might ditch the religion of their forefathers.

Let me assure you guys that it is silliness of highest order when you have very strong arguments but do not exercise them.

Be thankful to Dr Zakir Naik that he displayed the courage to say the truth about the two religions while he still could.

So Muslims in general and Pakistanis in particular what is wrong with you?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Moderator
Rank Image
Moderator's avatar
#27 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd April 2017 17:03
Images or videos (media) with people (eyes) is simply not permitted on muftisays.com public section to respect all opinions. If the video is beneficial, please convert it to audio format and repost. See this topic for help on video conversion to audio.
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
Umm Khadeejah
Rank Image
Offline
Joined:
22nd Mar 2017
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
49
Gender:
Sister
Reputation:
43
#28 [Permalink] Posted on 24th April 2017 07:17
Bismillah
Thanks for the detailed explanation about creation of Pakistan. I was also in a wrong impression that Jinnah was the cause for secularism found in Pakistan today and I never knew he wanted to establish an Islamic government. But this puzzles me more. If the very basic objective was to establish shariah and founders (I hope I can call Jinnah a founder here) are in favor, then why was it difficult to bring in shariah? I also thought the most Islamic leader pakistan ever got was Zia ul Haqq. Anyways it is very sad to see even the ulema got deluded. Whatever be the case, I feel bad how weak we muslims have become. The enemies are continuously working against us. On the other hand when we Muslims try to get back and the enemies give a blow, we fall flat for years and take years to get back. We Muslims should be more active in bringing in Islam than the enemies in bringing it down. I am not aiming this post at Muslims of pakistan but Muslims in general. The defeat, weakness and inability we are portraying is just unbelievable. We have destroyed all the efforts that our pious predecessors put for Islam. We are in such a poor state. Sorry for the rant but I wish we all bounce back every time we face any attack and not just surrender. Already the loss we Muslims incurred cannot be compensated here but only in akhirah. Sooner we realize, it is better or else I fear only worst happening to us. Only Allah SWT can guide, unite and protect us.
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
Maripat
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Online
Joined:
27th Mar 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
1104
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
1438
#29 [Permalink] Posted on 24th April 2017 09:33
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

This is a wonderful post. Thanks.

(1) In 1857 many Hindu fighters fought to dislodge the British from India making the then nominal king Bahadur Shah Zafar their leader. That should be taken as the pinnacle of Hindu-Muslim unity.

(2) In 1868 Munshi Nawal Kishore of Lucknow, the who had a virtual monoply on the Urdu-Persian-Arabic book publishing, participated in the inaugural-cum-establishment function of the Nagri Pracharini Sabha, Kashi (The Hindi Promotion Committee, Benaras). Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, a civil servant of the British East India Compant, was puzzled.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
bint e aisha
Rank Image
bint e aisha's avatar
Offline
Joined:
7th Feb 2017
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
97
Gender:
Sister
Reputation:
54
#30 [Permalink] Posted on 24th April 2017 14:59
Maripat wrote:
View original post

Respected brother,
When I wrote about people criticizing two nation theory, I wasn't referring to Indians but some foolish Pakistanis.

But that's a new one on me:
Quote:
people like me keep criticizing creation of Pakistan

Quote:
I have to keep cribbing about two nation theory and the creation of Pakistan because the bill for its creation came to my mailbox.

Why are you against the creation of Pakistan and two nation theory?
Do you really believe in Hindu-Muslim unity?
I am asking this cos I used to think that Indian Muslims do have sympathy for Pakistan. Your response would be appreciated.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Back to top Post New Topic