women, masjid, dinners, fun days, double standards

samah

View Profile

Joined:
5th Nov 2012
Longevity:
0%
Location:
USA
Posts:
337
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
575

#151 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2017 22:57

Concerned wrote:

View original post

For future readers, it may be helpful to note the references of this incident.

It is mentioned in Stories of the Ṣaḥābah by Shaykh al-Ḥadīth Mawlānā Zakariyyā Kāndhlawī (رحمه الله) on page 165 of the English translation:

This is the page (161) in the Urdu edition with takhrīj, which mentions Usd al-Ghābah (fī Maʿrifat al-Ṣaḥābah) by ʿAllāmah Ibn al-Athīr as the reference:

This is from the page (1548) in Usd al-Ghābah (Dār Ibn Ḥazm, 1st ed.):

The incident is also mentioned by Imām Ibn Kathīr in al-Bidāyah wa 'l-Nihāyah (Dār Ibn Kathīr, 2nd ed.) - (7/79). This one is actually regarding ʿUmar ibn al-Khaṭṭāb (رضي الله عنه):

report post quote code quick quote reply

Like x 1

Informative x 1

Reliable Islamic Books in Arabic, English, and Urdu here.
Books for learning Arabic.

@ibnus3eed

Site Support

Please DONATE generously towards Muftisays

We spend hundreds of hours ensuring you receive a quality service from this site. We do not fall into the advertisement schemes as all the ads contain elements of Haraam including Haraam Islamic links. Please consider setting up a £1 monthly donation. May Allah (swt) reward you.

Muadh_Khan

View Profile

Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7595
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5928

#152 [Permalink] Posted on 18th March 2017 07:55

samah wrote:

View original post

Many posts ago I had already given links to the actions of some of the Sahaba (RA) and I also typed this up yesterday but then deleted the post.

The reason being is this guy is a shameless individual who isn't really after information and the more you feed him the more he will pick on the information.

The basis issue still stands that he decided to accuse some very Senior Ulama of double standards when his facts and information have been thoroughly lacking and insufficient.

There is nothing wrong with disagreement.
There is nothing wrong with asking questions.
There is nothing wrong with having a different opinion.
BUT there is something seriously wrong with (starting with a) slander and being shameless enough to stick to it when it becomes clear as daylight that it was an error.

Not even an acknowledgement to say that he was perhaps, maybe, possibly a little hasty or premature in jumping to conclusions on the issue of double standards. What we are witnessing is a Muslim example of Donald Trump and wiretapping scandal.

The reasons may still be the same i.e. deflection and taking attention away from something else and foundation is still narcissism.

May Allah Ta'ala save us from such arrogance and what we are witnessing in our times (Ameen)

Posted via the Muftisays Android App

report post quote code quick quote reply

Ameen x 1

^^ Opinion of Haqeer, Faqeer, Pur-Taqseer, Haich-Mandaan, Banda-e-Nadaan
http://www.central-mosque.com/
Your gateway to Islamic Knowledge.

Concerned

View Profile

Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
392
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
119

#153 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2017 03:40

I am sorry for having to bring up this thread again, but this had to be posted. The following is from bro. Muadh's blog, which I happen to come across accidentally while searching for something on google.

www.muftisays.com/blog/Muadh_Khan/3548_07-02-2014/are-deo...

Quote:

ansari
Assalaamu Alaykum,

If you look into the hanafi texts, they also have disallowed women going out for lectures (wa'z), *even* if her husband permits it. The texts state that the husband is sinful in permitting her that. Plus, they have stated that the fatwa today is that going to the mosques is discouraged in all cases, for old and young women, and it is not permissible.

And you can read this in the texts of the deobandi elders too, such as Ml. Thanwi (in baheshti zewar) and others who have declared it impermissible for women to go out for "taqreeb" etc.

So, those who defend and promote (almost fanatically) the opinion that it is discouraged for women to go to the masjid, they should discourage women to go out of their homes in other cases also, and also deem the husband sinful for allowing such. And this would include going out for shopping, or for a walk etc.

Quote:

Blogger's Reply:
W-Salam, Agreed.

Bro. Ansari is saying almost the same thing I was trying to say in this entire thread, and while in this thread Muadh tries to make me look like an idiot, here is Muadh agreeing with Bro. Ansari.

report post quote code quick quote reply

Winner x 1

Concerned

Muadh_Khan

View Profile

Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7595
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5928

#154 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2017 09:22

Concerned wrote:

View original post

For the hundredth time, the disagreement with you is that the event DID NOT take place at a Mosque, DID NOT take place at Eid therefore your original Assertion is baseless slander based on faulty research and data.

The second part of dispute is that a women will always be "discouraged" to pray at a Mosque and "encouarged" to pray at Home due to a direct text in the Hadeeth.

That's the summary of dispute with you.

Once you get past your Ego and realise what you have done then we actually get to discuss the other issues.

There are Ulama who rule that women shouldn't emerge out of their homes (except out of necessity) and that is the part which is subjective and can be discussed.

The problem is that your ego is so enormous that you cannot come to the realization that you have mixed up a number of topics, got your facts wrong and then gone ahead to slander some Scholars and you continue to insist and persist with your baseless slander!

The simple answer to your question about the necessity (as given 100 times before) is that the Ulama at Bardford DO NOT subscribe to your supposed "deductive reasoning and analysis". You have taken some opinion and tried to paste it upon (number of Ulama) and Thank God you have spared Mufti Mangera.

The issue with you is the (faulty) line of reasoning which you have taken.

And we continue to watch your pompous arrogant ego run amock instead of clearly admitting that you got the original premise wrong.

As I said a 100 times before, be a Muslim be humble and admit your error of original slander and we can discuss your ancillary points all day.

Its your slander which is the issue!

Posted via the Muftisays Android App

report post quote code quick quote reply

Dislike x 1

^^ Opinion of Haqeer, Faqeer, Pur-Taqseer, Haich-Mandaan, Banda-e-Nadaan
http://www.central-mosque.com/
Your gateway to Islamic Knowledge.

Concerned

View Profile

Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
392
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
119

#155 [Permalink] Posted on 19th May 2017 05:27

I did not want to start a new thread so I am just going to post this here.

My Urdu is not so good and I am still working on my Arabic, so please correct me if I have understood incorrectly.

www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/38113

It is interesting that this fatwa allows women, once they fulfill certain conditions, to visit the mazar, and it doesn't even specify that the the women must be old.

In the footnotes it says there is nothing wrong with old women visiting the graves but young women should not visit the graves JUST AS they shouldn't be present for the Jamat in the Masjid.

So it is interesting that fitna may somehow be avoided when women go to the mazar nowadays, but even old women and little girls can't attend eid salah twice a year.

We don't have mazars in the west, but I assume they would at least be a small crowd there .

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

Concerned

Muadh_Khan

View Profile

Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7595
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5928

#156 [Permalink] Posted on 19th May 2017 09:29

Concerned wrote:

View original post

Because:

Salah for women at home is specifically mentioned in Hadeeth to be superior (as compared to Mosque)
Mazar is like any other place so normal rules of segregation etc apply

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

^^ Opinion of Haqeer, Faqeer, Pur-Taqseer, Haich-Mandaan, Banda-e-Nadaan
http://www.central-mosque.com/
Your gateway to Islamic Knowledge.

Concerned

View Profile

Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
392
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
119

#157 [Permalink] Posted on 19th May 2017 10:39

Quote:

Salah for women at home is specifically mentioned in Hadeeth to be superior (as compared to Mosque)

1) What does this have to do with eid?

2) what does this have to do with totally preventing access to Mosque?

3) if the 2 issues are not connected, what is the purpose of the highlighted text?

وَإِنْ كَانَ لِلِاعْتِبَارِ وَالتَّرَحُّمِ مِنْ غَيْرِ بُكَاءٍ وَالتَّبَرُّكِ بِزِيَارَةِ قُبُورِ الصَّالِحِينَ فَلَا بَأْسَ إذَا كُنَّ عَجَائِزَ. وَيُكْرَهُ إذَا كُنَّ شَوَابَّ كَحُضُورِ الْجَمَاعَةِ فِي الْمَسَاجِدِ اهـ وَهُوَ تَوْفِيقٌ حَسَنٌ

وإن كان للاعتبار والترحم والتبرك بزيارة قبور الصالحين من غير ما يخالف الشرع فلا بأس به إذا كن عجائز وكره ذلك للشابات كحضورهن في المساجد للجماعات اهـ

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

Concerned

Muadh_Khan

View Profile

Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7595
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5928

#158 [Permalink] Posted on 19th May 2017 10:48

Concerned wrote:

View original post

We will handle the issue of Eid in a second.

Do you understand that there is clear cut Hadeeth on the superiority of women praying Salah at home (as opposed to Mosque)?
Everything else (apart from Mosque) is a separate case (Prayer Halls, Community Centres, Mazars etc).

Do you finally get these two simple points? If you don't get 1 & 2 no point in chasing our tails again.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

^^ Opinion of Haqeer, Faqeer, Pur-Taqseer, Haich-Mandaan, Banda-e-Nadaan
http://www.central-mosque.com/
Your gateway to Islamic Knowledge.

ali

View Profile

Joined:
28th Oct 2004
Longevity:
97%
Location:
World Of Allah
Posts:
527
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
452

#159 [Permalink] Posted on 19th May 2017 11:01

Man!

GOING ROUND IN CIRCLES!

THAT'S RIGHT A SPINNING WHEEL, NO PROGRESS!

report post quote code quick quote reply

Agree x 1

Creative x 1

Ahmed ibn Hanbal said, "If in any matter there is agreement between three people, then one pays no attention to the verdict of anyone who disagrees with them." Someone asked him, "Who are they?" He answered, "Abu Hanifah, Abu Yusuf and Muhammad ibn al-Hasan.
As-Samani / kitab al-ansab.

bint e aisha

View Profile

Joined:
7th Feb 2017
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
115
Gender:
Sister
Reputation:
71

#160 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 16:08

Your problem is solved!

Zamzam Academy wrote:

_The Shade Presents_
*EID PRAYERS OUTDOORS*

Eid ul Fitr 1438/2017
FOREST GATE

Whole Family Welcome
*Women's facilities available*

*Forest Gate, Upton Lane E7 9JT*

Imam: Mufti Abdur-Rahman ibn Yusuf Mangera

Time: 9am start

Bring own prayer mats | make Wudu before arrival

report post quote code quick quote reply

Like x 1

اپنی ملت پر قیاس اقوام مغرب سے نہ کر
خاص ہے ترکیب میں قوم رسول ہاشمی

Concerned

View Profile

Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
392
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
119

#161 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 16:23

bint e aisha wrote:

View original post

As I said in the first post :

Quote:

Mufti Abdur Rahman Mangera seems to maintain a standard and doesn't have one set of rules for ladies when it comes to eid and masjid and another set of rules for other events, and he doesn't hide it.

It's the other ulama I am speaking about, who advise communities not to allow women at eid and to totally ban them from the masjid, yet see no problem with women attending all other events, Islamic or not islamic.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

Concerned

Concerned

View Profile

Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
392
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
119

#162 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 16:28

Quote:

In light of the above, the Fuqahā have prevented young women from visiting graveyards for the simple reason that it is a cause of Fitnah[1]. Meaning, the very fact that young woman will be free to move about as they please in public places leads to Fitnah and laxity in morals. The danger of this is more so understood in this era where in women are not cognizant of dressing in the proper Islamic attire. Similarly, if elderly women also become a means of Fitnah, they too will not be allowed to visit the graveyard.

www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/27802

Replace graveyard with eid gah, and then replace it with fundraising dinners, and replace it with family fun days, and even replace it with regular bayans. Shouldn't all of the cases be treated the same?

Not sure if I posted this event already

18057794_1426296497426394_8870378029304226322_n.jp

Downloads: 20

[97.21 kB]

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

Concerned

Muadh_Khan

View Profile

Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7595
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5928

#163 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 16:44

Concerned wrote:

View original post

Not again Mate!

Nevertheless, let’s start this discussion all over again and hope from the Mercy of Allah Ta’ala that you understand (not agree just understand) some basics.

EXPLICIT: Salah for a woman at home will always be superior to her Salah at Mosque because it is specifically mentioned in Hadeeth of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam).
IMPLICIT & DEDUCTION: Everything else is Ijtehaad of Ulama (either agreement or disagreement and shades in between)

Les discuss two simple points and tell me which bits you disagree with and on what grounds. Then we will dive into each point individually and see how they can be further dissected and evaluated.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

^^ Opinion of Haqeer, Faqeer, Pur-Taqseer, Haich-Mandaan, Banda-e-Nadaan
http://www.central-mosque.com/
Your gateway to Islamic Knowledge.

Concerned

View Profile

Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
392
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
119

#164 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 16:47

Not again mate : ). No where in the quote above did I mention salah in the masjid. So until you understand the difference between eid salah and regular salah, do not start again. Also understand that the superiority of an action does not automatically result in the prohibition of less superiro actions.

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

Concerned

Concerned

View Profile

Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
392
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
119

#165 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 17:30

Why do you associate the banning of women from masjid with the superiority of their salah at home? Mufti kifayatullah quotes Shah Waliullah in one of his writings. Shah Waliullah mentions fitnah as a means of making absence from congregational salah permissible. So women are excused from congregational salah due to fitnah. Other reasons listed for excuse of absence are inclement weather, Presence of food at esha time, or need to use the toilet and fear or sickness.

So why does this fitna disappear when it comes to other events?
It would be interested to see if other scholars agree with him that the majority of sahaba prevented their women from attending congregational salah due to this fitnah.

IMG_20170620_121822_607.JPG

Downloads: 11

[50.31 kB]

IMG_20170609_151438.jpg

Downloads: 2

[1901.72 kB]

report post quote code quick quote reply

No post ratings

Concerned