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Another fabricated hadith in fazaile ramadhan

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 13:18
about narrator عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ زَاذَانَ:
Tarikhul Kabir al-Bukhari - التاريخ الكبير [ Hadith Narrator, Id:242. - pg:Vol:1]
محمد بن زاذان منكر الحديث لا يكتب حديثه
Tahdheeb al-Tahdheeb Ibn Hajr - تهذيب التهذيب - ابن حجر [ Hadith Narrator, Id:8244. - pg:Vol:9]
محمد بن زاذان المدني روى عن أنس وجابر ومحمد بن المنكدر وعامر بن عبد الله بن الزبير وأم سعد روى عنه عنبسة بن عبد الرحمن القرشي أحد الضعفاء وداود بن عبد الرحمن العطار قال البخاري منكر الحديث لا يكتب حديثه وقال أبو حاتم متروك الحديث لا يكتب حديثه وقال بن عدي وله غير ما ذكرت وكلها مضطربة قلت وقال الساجي محمد بن زاذان روى عن هشام بن عروة لا يكتب حديثه روى عنه ابنه عبد الله قال بن معين ليس حديثه بشيء وقال الترمذي لما أخرج حديثه محمد بن زاذان منكر الحديث وقال الدارقطني ضعيف >> ت ق الترمذي وابن ماجة
1 narrator is already matruk, and even a 2nd narrator is also rejected by the majority of the muhaddith:
عَنْبَسَةُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ
Tahdheeb al-Tahdheeb Ibn Hajr - تهذيب التهذيب - ابن حجر [ Hadith Narrator, Id:7288. - pg:Vol:8]
عنبسة بن عبد الرحمن بن عيينة بن سعيد بن العاص بن سعيد بن العاص بن أمية وقال بعضهم عنبسة بن أبي عبد الرحمن الأموي روى عن زيد بن أسلم وعبد الله بن نافع مولى بن عمر وعلاق بن أبي مسلم وقيل عبد الملك بن علاق ومحمد بن زاذان ومحمد بن المنكدر وموسى بن عقبة وهشام بن عروة وأبان بن أبي عياش وغيرهم وعنه الوليد بن مسلم وعبد الله بن الحارث المخزومي ومحمد بن يعلى زنبور السلمي وسعيدبن زكريا المدائني وهياج بن بسطام وعبد الواحد بن غياث وآخرون وقال بن أبي خيثمة عن بن معين لا شيء وقال أبو زرعة واهي الحديث منكر الحديث وقال أبو حاتم متروك الحديث كان يضع الحديث وقال البخاري تركوه وقال أبو داود والنسائي والدارقطني ضعيف وقال النسائي أيضا متروك وقال الترمذي يضعف وقال الأزدي كذاب وقال بن حبان هو صاحب أشياء موضوعة لا يحل الاحتجاج به قلت وقال بن البرقي عن بن معين ضعيف وقال عن عثمان بن سعيد عن بن معين لا أعرفه أيضا منكر الحديث وكذا قال بن عدي وقال أبو حاتم كان عند أحمد بن يونس عنه شيء فلم يحدث عنه علي عمد >> ت ق الترمذي وابن ماجة
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 15:06
abu nusayba wrote:
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brother abu nusayba. Have you studied hadith and usul? Let the ulema discuss these matters. Fazaail e amaal has been of immense benefit to the layman. About weak hadith you can pull out such deficiences in many books like Qadi Ayadh's Ash shifa etc. The grading of hadith is not as simple as you are making out. How do you know if the weak hadith had been strengthened by other narrators. Also being hanafis we don't need to follow hafiz ibn hajar in everything. The hanafis alhamdulillah have their own methodology. We should also give the benefit of the doubt to people like shaykh zakariya. He was not a tinpot salafi type akhi.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 15:40
london786 wrote:
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The fact that Imam Bukhari (RA) has weakened one of the narrators holds a lot of weight, and I'd very surprised if Shaykh Zakariya thought otherwise. I think when it comes to this particular narration it's clear cut. It's a very weak Hadith at best, and if ther were any other similar Ahadith that could corroborate it then I'm sure Maulana Muhammad Abasoomar would've pointed it out. That's pretty much their style.

I think the respected Shaykh has erred on this occasion. I personally would stick to their fatwa, and not quote this Hadith at all.

I also didn't realise each school had their own exclusive method when it comes to grading Ahadith? I was aware that there were different interpretations of narrations, but always relied on the classical scholars when it came to authenticity?
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 15:52
abu nusayba wrote:
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Respected brother. The best thing to do is not to quote the Hadith, simple as that. There isn't much point in making a big fuss out of it. Iti'fak is still proven to be an established Sunnah from authentic sources which, in itself is an incentive to act upon.

Fadhail E Amal is not Shaykh Zakariya's masterpiece. He put it together so it could benefit lay people like you (if you don't mind me saying), and me. Perhaps this is why he erred in including certain fabricated narrations.

If you read study his other works like his commentary on Bukhari, and Muwatta Imam Malik you'll come to realise he was a pioneer Muadhtih. So, brother london786, and Muadh Khan are right. We should surely give the benefit of the doubt to Shaykh Zakariya.
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 15:52
london786 wrote:
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Akhi , i have quoted muhaddithin who has studied the usool and said this hadith shouldnt be quoted. As i mentioned already, its not about weak hadith but very weak hadith or hadiths in whichs rawis are accused of fabricating ahadith. In matter of academical discussion "he might have know" has no place. Infact a hanafi deobandi muhaddith said this hadith shouldnt be quoted. And what has being hanafi to do with ibn hajar asqalani´s hadith grading? As if imam bayhaqi was hanafi too! imam dhahabi also mentioned the above hadith as fabricated. when the trio Imam bukhari-imam ibn hajar asqalani- imam dhahabi rejects a narrator , its very rare that a scholar of islam would dare to go against these verdicts. Specialy when it matters for million of peoples. Akhi believe me, if you give any chance to any hanafi deobandi muhaddith to remove some narrations from fazaile amal, there will be few page definative which they will edit and not just leave those there by giving benifit of doubt. I could have given benifit of doubt, till i saw the passage where he as a hadith teacher mentioned a hadith just because "a book "is praised by certain scholar although he himself said he didnt came across any chain of the hadith! Or even quoting "munabbihat" whcih suppose to be ibn hajar asqalanis book, although it isnt! And being hanafi in fiqh has nothing to do with hadiths grading.
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 15:59
Imam Ali wrote:
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IF he writes soemthing wrong and doubtful in sharh of muawatta or other book then scholar can see the mistake easily. But in fazaile amal, we laymen are left alone! Thing which has effect on million peoples akhirah, one should have be more careful than the sharh of muwatta or others which is limited only for scholars. WHat he did was past, but the current ulama needs to step up, bring a new edition , give a notes about those hadiths, then its all good! Even for the tahqiq with references we had to wait more than 30 years
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 16:02
abu nusayba wrote:
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Then approach some scholars you know, and ask them to put a project together where they can get this done otherwise you've made your point, and let's leave it at that.

Another option is to search for an alternative.
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 16:10

abu nusayba wrote:
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I disagree with your opinion because Imam Bayhaqi (RA) has quoted it in his book without calling it a fabrication. The quotation of Imam Bayhaqi (and others) goes against the principle which you have quoted.

It is weak (or very weak) but the precedence has been set way before Shaykhul-Hadeeth (Maulana) Zakariyya (RA) or Deobandees of quoting this narration. Therefore, at the very least the issue hasnothing to do with Deobandees at all.

It makes all the difference if the person quotes a fabrication (deliberately) or by mistake or quotes it thinking (its weak).  It doesn’t make much difference to the lives of laymen neither it is a calamity as you are claiming because there are other narrations of Aitekaaf.

At best this is an example of disagreement over fabrication or an error; not the first and not the last.

Many years ago your point would have been about using “weak narrations” that was debunked years ago, now it’s about degrees of weakness. The gradation of Hadeeth in itself not Qat’ee (absolute) i.e. Scholars often differ over weak Ahadeeth, the degrees of weakness is even more subjective.

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 16:22
Imam Ali wrote:
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Telling any deobandi scholar to step up against the mistake of their elders is a lost ship case. They say Each Scholar has his own approach which we should respect, despite our differences. But when sh albani or some salafis grades hadiths differently, its hard to respect. They dont want to call certain hadith of fazaile amal as fabricated, but they also dont acknowledge others calling it as fabrication base upon missing any chain of narrator!
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 17:19

abu nusayba wrote:
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It isn't a mistake to begin with.

I can choose to quote the narration on the authority of Imam Bayhaqi (RA) and state that its weak and it isn’t a mistake by any stretch of imagination at all.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 18:48
abu nusayba wrote:
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How about you do it yourself then?
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2016 21:46
"In explanation to enforce and explain (Sheikh Zakaria RhA) frequently takes ahadees from books like Imam Ghazali's Ahya ul uloom, Faqih Abu Layth's Tambeehul Ghafileen and Qurrat ul uyoon. We don't hesitate to admit this truth that there are a lot of fabricated ahadees in these books, it is not far fetched that some of these fabricated ahadees might have come in fazaail e amaal too. Even after this it's our claim that the this has no affect on the authenticity of this book. Why?
The reason is that we have seen Giant A'imma of Jarah wa ta'adeel that when their mood is to do jarah wa ta'adeel of rijaal and of doing tahqeeq regarding saabit wa ghair saabit, saheeh wa ghair saheeh their manner and tone is different, and when they raise their pen on akhlaaq, aadaab, fadhaail, or targheeb o tarheeb, they become so lenient that even they use fabricated ahadees as istidlaal, and it becomes difficult to identify that it is the same Ibn Jawzi, Mnzri, Nawwi, Zahbi, Ibn Hajr, Ibn Taimiya and Ibn Qayyam (Rahimahumullah), whome the art of naqd o drayat is proud of.
"

Excerpt from Fadhail e A'maal pe Aiterazat Aik Usooli Jaiza .

Author db then gives examples from the above named Muhaddiseens as proof.

Lets disown all of them!!!
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd June 2016 00:10
Who is speaking disowning any book or saying that a book is not authentic?
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd June 2016 11:43
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I agree there can be different opinions on the grading of Hadith , and obviously I am no expert on Hadith , but what do you say to the following :

Quote:
We learn from this statement that the scholars were more relaxed in the case of using weak hadith in virtues, but were very strict when it came to aspects of belief or fiqhi rulings. There were also other conditions for accepting weak hadith. For instance, the weakness should not be extreme that it is bordering on fabrication or the hadith should not be a spurious one. Likewise the weak hadith should not contradict an established principle of Shari’a or go against the spirit of the teachings of Islam (See Tadrib al-rawi).[/quote]
islamqa.org/hanafi/qibla-hanafi/35756

[quote]Al-Haafidth Ibn Hajar Al-'Asqalani, sometimes referred to as the Ameer Al-Muslimeen in Al-Hadeeth, said: "There are three conditions that must be fulfilled in order to use the weak Hadeeth: -

1 It is well accepted that the weakness should only be slight. This will help to exclude hadeeths reported by liars or accused reporters who are known to commit big mistakes.

www.central-mosque.com/index.php/Practises/weak-ahadeeth-...
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd June 2016 12:43

Concerned wrote:
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I am not a Scholar but I have spent some considerable time studying the subject according to the best of my ability.

The fact is that our Brother Abu Nusaybah is Anti-Deobandi so he will take any opportunity to throw dirt at Deobandees.

There are many Deobandees who will return the favour when it comes to Ghair-Muqallids.

Gradation of Ahadeeth and their usage is not a Qat’e (absolute) science therefore even if Al-Hafidh Ibn Haj’r Al-Asqalani (RA) has an opinion, not demoting his stature as a Master of Hadeeth BUT it is still an opinion.

If you study the Indian/Pakistani Polemics between Ghair-Muqallids and Deobandees it is pretty much squabbling over a narrator and brining “opinions”.

Ghair-Muqalids bring opinions casting doubt over a narrator.

Deobandees bring opinion confirming the sound nature of a narrator.

And vice-versa and it goes on and on and on.

Brother Abu Nusaybah is trying to do so in the English language.

The pertinent issue to this thread (as I have demonstrated) is that Imam Byhaqi (RA) has used this narration in his compilation and not labelled it as a “Fabrication” at all.

Note the following lines (carefully) in the response by South African Ulama:

Hadithanswers.com wrote:
Imam Tabarani and Imam Bayhaqi (rahimahumallah) have recorded this narration via an extremely weak chain that consists of narrators that are very unreliable and even suspected of Hadith fabrication. Imam Bayhaqi (rahimahullah) has also pointed out the extreme weakness of a narrator.

The narration should therefore not be quoted. (Hadithanswers.com) [/quote]

Now note the title of the thread by Brother Abu Nusaybah

[quote=Abu Nusaybah]Another fabricated hadith in fazaile ramadhan

IF you or anyone else cannot note the subtleties which frankly smack of Bias, you have a problem!
 

To answer your question the practise of Aitekaaf is backed by sound and unanimously agreed upon authentic narrations so this doesn’t cause any dispute at all. Is Fazail-e-Amaal creating an action which has no basis in Islam? Not at all…

This the summary of using weak Ahadeeth (as supplement).

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