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Britons who fight for Israel

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 8th July 2014 17:57
What about the Britons who fight for Israel?

The claim

"We have British citizens going over to fight in the Israeli army. Yesterday we know they are taking part in the collective punishment of a civilian population. That's a crime."
Farooq Siddiqui, 3 July 2014

An ex-adviser to the government on tackling extremism in Britain's Muslim communities raised an interesting point on Channel 4 News in relation to Brits who fight in conflicts abroad.

Farooq Siddiqui, formerly of the Prevent programme, is calling for the UK to stop criminalising young Muslims who travel to Syria to fight against Bashar al-Assad.

Security service estimates suggest around 500 Britons have travelled to Syria to take part in the civil war.

Mr Siddiqui asked why the government has threatened to arrest British Muslims who return from Syria while it allows young people to fight for Israel and other countries with impunity.

"If we're talking about stopping people, Muslims, stopping them from going over to other countries and fighting, why are we not doing that as a blanket for stopping anyone that goes over abroad to fight in other countries?"

Is Mr Siddiqui right to say that young Brits are fighting for the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) while the Israelis are engaged in controversial strikes against Palestinian targets following the murder of three Jewish teenagers?

The analysis

Most Israeli citizens are obliged to do national service of up to two-and-a-half years in the country's military, and so a significant number of British-born Israelis or immigrants with dual nationality will inevitably join Israel's armed forces for a spell.

But you don't have to be a citizen of the Jewish state to fight for the IDF.

The Israeli military runs a programme called "mahal" which allows non-Israeli nationals of Jewish descent to join the ranks of the armed forces for an 18-month tour of duty.

According to the rules, British men under 24 or women under 21 who have one parent or grandparent who is or was Jewish are eligible.

That's Jewish (you need to prove it by getting a rabbi to sign a confirmation) not Israeli.

Overseas recruits get the same pay and conditions as Israelis and "serve always shoulder to shoulder with regular Israeli soldiers".

The numbers of volunteers from the UK are small but significant: the IDF told Channel 4 News there are "around one hundred Brits currently serving" in its ranks.

There is a even a support group for British parents of IDF soldiers called Mahal Mums.

We're not aware of anyone questioning the legality of this arrangement.

Unlike some other countries, Britain does not have an effective law prohibiting its citizens from fighting for foreign armies.

There is an obscure piece of legislation still on the statute books - the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 - which ostensibly makes it illegal for British citizens to join the armed forces of a country fighting a state at peace with Britain.

But this proved to be embarrassingly ineffective when prosecutors attempted to stop British volunteers from fighting in the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s.

The lack of any practical ban on foreign enlistment leads to the slightly odd situation where a teenager can travel to Syria to fight for the brutal Assad regime with impunity, but if he sides with enemies of the regime he could face prosecution as a terrorist back in Britain.

This is because of the broad scope of anti-terror legislation. In the Queen's Speech last month, the government set out new laws which mean Brits who travel overseas to train for acts of terrorism against any government will be prosecuted as if their actions had taken place in the UK.

In May Mashudur Choudhury, 31, from Portsmouth, became the first Briton to be convicted of engaging in conduct in preparation for terrorist acts after attending a training camp in Syria.

Choudhury wasn't threatening the UK, he was training to fight Assad - who David Cameron also wanted to target with military action before losing a Commons vote last year.

But a supreme court judgement from last year ruled that the legal definition of terrorism can include "any or all military attacks by a non-state armed group against any or all state or inter-governmental organisation armed forces in the context of a non-international armed conflict".

So if someone fights in a civil a war against a regime the British government hates - even if they fight for a moderate faction not banned as a terror organisation - they can still be prosecuted as a terrorist.

War crimes?

Mr Siddiqui is not the only person to have accused Israel of war crimes over its recent actions in the West Bank and Gaza in the wake of the killings of three Israeli teens.

Amnesty International has echoed his use of the words "collective punishment", saying: "Justice will not be served by Israel seeking revenge by imposing collective punishment, or committing other violations of Palestinians' rights."

Collective punishment against a civilian population is banned under the fourth Geneva Convention.

But in the absence of any legal case brought against the IDF, the suggestion that Israeli air strikes, arrests, shootings and demolition of buildings constitute "collective punishment" of the Palestinians remains an unproven allegation.

How likely is it that Britons have been directly involved in clashes with Palestinians in recent days? Not surprisingly, we don't have information on the movements of individual IDF soldiers.

But there is no reason why they would not be involved. The rules of mahal state that overseas recruits are liable to be picked for the same frontline combat units as Israeli conscripts, including infantry, tanks and special forces.

The verdict

It was news to FactCheck, but there are around 100 British nationals serving with the IDF as we speak, apparently with no legal difficulties.

But a Brit who trains or fights with any anti-Assad rebel group runs the risk of being jailed as a terrorist.

If we are worried about young British Muslims heading off to the Middle East to receive military training, should we be equally worried about Jews?

That depends on whether Mr Siddiqui is justified in comparing the experience of serving in a professional army overseas to fighting alongside Islamist militant groups in Syria. Of course this is a politically-charged and highly debatable point.

He insisted in the interview: "It is a fighting force, whether you want to say it's disciplined or it's a militia. The effect on the individual, the effect on the combatant is still the same."

Source
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 8th July 2014 18:00
Taalibah wrote:
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one law for us and one for them....A muslim will always get the full force of the law whilst others get away with many things
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 8th July 2014 18:09
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Yep very true, it's called 'turning a blind eye' what you pretend doesn't exist, you don't need to deal with. Allah's wrath be on the liars and those who conceal them. Aameen.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 8th July 2014 19:10
10
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. And whoso among you takes them for friends is indeed one of them. Verily, Allah guides not the unjust people. Al-Quran. [5:52]
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 9th July 2014 01:32
One shaykh said the same thing, that these people will never ever be happy with you, so why bother trying and comprising our deen.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 9th July 2014 11:44
the fake shaykh wrote:
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The problem fake shaykh is as follows. We live as a minority therefore some effort needs to be made to reach out to the majority. History has shown that Muslims living as minorities have always had a very difficult time. I don't know the situation seems very bad and getting worse. Khair we can just rely on ALLAH.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 19th July 2014 15:29
Israel recruits over 100 British teens to join Gaza war

Israeli soldiers organize artillery shells for firing into Gaza, on July 17, 2014, near Sderot, Israel.

Israeli soldiers organize artillery shells for firing into Gaza, on July 17, 2014, near Sderot, Israel.

 

Over 100 British teens have been signed up to fight “shoulder to shoulder” with Israeli forces in brutal attacks on the Gaza Strip, a human rights group warns.

The recruitment of dozens of British citizens to join the ranks of the Israeli military behind the onslaught in Gaza has sparked anger.

The Israeli military has confirmed the presence of over 100 British “lone soldiers” serving 18-month tours of duty in its ranks.

Director of Arab Organization for Human Rights (AOHR) Muhammed Jamil on Friday warned that the activities of recruiting groups preying on British youngsters had intensified over recent weeks, urging a government investigation into the issue.

According to the AOHR, British “recruits have on occasion been required to engage in activities which endangered the lives of Palestinians such as has been the case in Gaza.”

Based on British law, it is not an offence for a British citizen to join a foreign state army.

Israel is pressing ahead with its relentless aerial and ground assaults on the besieged Gaza Strip, pushing the death toll to some 316 in just 12 days.

The Palestinian Health Ministry says more than 70 of the victims have been children.

More than 2,200 others have been injured since the offensive began on July 8.

The United Nations says the number of displaced people of Gaza has almost doubled over the past 24 hours. More than 40,000 Palestinians are now homeless.

 

Source (Shia News channel as far as I know)
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2014 10:26
2 IDF-enlisted Americans killed in Gaza fighting

Quote:
Two US citizens have been confirmed dead after the deadly Sunday in Gaza, when at least 87 Palestinians and 13 Israeli soldiers killed. The Americans were enlisted with the Golani Brigade of the Israel Defense Forces and fell in the battle of Shejaia.

Max Steinberg, 24, a native of San Fernando Valley in California, and Nissim Sean Carmeli, 21, from South Padre Island, Texas, both had American citizenship.

The US State Department confirmed the deaths of American citizens of Steinberg and Carmeli on Sunday night.

“We can confirm the deaths of US citizens Max Steinberg and Sean Carmeli in Gaza. Out of respect for those affected by this, we have nothing further at this time,” said State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki.

Source




These guys will be called war Hero's, but if a Muslim goes to help his Mother, Father, Brother or Sister then he'll be arrested the moment he goes back to his country and will be labelled a "TERRORIST"

DOUBLE STANDARDS just because they are MUSLIM!
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2014 15:16
Taalibah wrote:
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Comments are worth reading....

I'll share on Twitter inshaAllaah.
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