BEER with 0.0% Alcohol HARAM

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2018 20:25
abu mohammed wrote:
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Thanks for all your answers and your patience with me. I really appreciate it. At least you are honest enough to admit that there are some apparent contradictions in the reasons why certain things are made Halal and other things are made Haram.
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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2018 20:32
Asaaghir wrote:
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I'm sure you'll agree with me that for something to be made Haram there has to be a proper coherent reason. We can't just leave it to gut instinct or what our heart feels. Based on gut instinct there are some scholars that make everything Haram. So all i'm doing is trying to figure out what is the actual reason why these drinks are Haram when according to Imam Abu Hanifah's ruling which is the one used by almost everyone today, any drink which intoxicates is still Halal as long as it is not from dates, grapes, or barley and it is not taken in the amount that it intoxicates. Here's a fatwa which pretty much sums up Imam Abu Hanifah's ruling accurately:

Question

1. Is it possible to use alcohol which is not made from grapes or dates or synthetic flavouring (eg champagne) for cooking purposes.?

2. What is the amount / percentage of alcohol that is found in food (eg soy sauce) that would make its consumption permissible and how do we calculate this?

Answer

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatuh

It is permissible to use alcohol which is not derived from grapes or dates with the following conditions:

1. It is not used as an intoxicant or to an amount which intoxicates

2. It is not used in vain

The permissibility and impermissibility will differ from person to person as each person’s level to bear the alcohol without getting intoxicated differs. One should avoid using excessive amounts of Alcohol in cooking if there is a doubt of it intoxicating. If there are alternatives available, then they should be adopted to avoid the chances of alcohol leading to intoxication.

And Allah knows best

Ml. Ehzaz Ajmeri,

Checked and Approved by:

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

So far there's no consistency in the reasons being given to make these non-alcoholic drinks Haram. Four different reasons have been given so far:

1) Futility (enjoyment reasons) - If you use that reason, then that will also apply to ice creams, fizzy drinks, crisps and so on.

2) "It is made to intoxicate." This is not true at all. Yes beer is made to intoxicate. But we're not talking about beer. We're talking about non-alcoholic beer which is not "made to intoxicate" and its objectives are not "for intoxication". The Muadh guy who keeps switching back to discussing the objectives and aims of alcoholic beer is not the brightest tool in the toolbox to be honest. Look at the process of making Bundaberg Ginger beer for example which is quite similar process to all other non-alcoholic beer. AskImam says its fine (provided imitation confusion doesn't happen). So why should all other non-alcoholic beers be made Haram when the process of making them is quite similar?

3) Public necessity. This implies that ice creams, fizzy drinks, and crisps are all Haram but because of necessity, we take on Imam Abu Hanifah's ruling today. Which is fine. But what doesn't make sense is why use Imam Abu Hanifah's ruling for one thing but then suddenly switch back to Imam Muhammad's ruling on another thing? Imam Muhammad's ruling is based on the Hadith which says that whatever intoxicates in large amounts is also Haram in large amounts. If you're going to use Imam Muhammad's ruling then alcohol added as a solvent or carrier is also Haram.

4) Imitation of non-muslims. This is a whole pandora's box itself with the scholars coming up with all sorts of different things that are classed as imitation.

For something to be made Haram there has to be a proper coherent and consistent basis. According to Imam Abu Hanifah's ruling all these drinks should be Halal if they're consumed with the right intention, and if they're not taken in the amount it intoxicates.
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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2018 20:40
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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"I have no idea what is "Bundaberg"

You really are bit dim.

I'll quote the question and answer again so you can have at least a tinsy winsy idea what is "Bundaberg" so you don't have to repeat yourself again with:

"I have no idea what is "Bundaberg"

Do Bundaberg Brewed Drinks Products contain alcohol?

All Bundaberg Brewed Drinks naturally brewed products contain minute residual traces of alcohol. Our manufacturing process uses natural yeast which feed on sugars and ferments the ‘brew’ to be used as a base for our beverages. Alcohol is a by-product of this fermentation process. Before we fill the product into bottles we heat the brew to above 70 degrees C. to kill the yeast, halt the fermentation process, and remove the alcohol. After this heating process all of our products have a residual alcohol level of less than 0.5%. It is this manufacturing process, and the natural brew component in our beverages which adds the flavour profile unique to our products.

The legal level allowable in a soft drink for it to be labelled as a non alcoholic beverage is 0.5%. We promote all of our beverages as a soft drink which is an acceptable alternative to intoxicating beverages. For further confirmation you may find information regarding Non Alcoholic Beverages in Food Standard 2.6.2

Please can you tell us if the above product is suitable for Muslim consumption.

Your response will be greatly appreciated.
Answer

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh.

The contents and procedure of making the Bundaberg brewed drink as explained by yourself is the same as other soft drinks. [1] In particular, the alcohol amount is minute and is from sugar cane and not from grapes or dates. Such soft drinks are permissible[2].

However, due to the soft drink being named as “beer”, if that confuses with beer that intoxicates, then the ruling could change.

And Allah Ta’āla Knows Best

Asim Patel

Student Darul Iftaa
Venda, South Africa

Checked and Approved by,
Mufti Ebrahim Desai.
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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2018 22:13
I am seeing some fatwa mention khamr as alcohol derived from grapes,dates and barley, and some don't mention barley.


So does alcohol derived from barley automatically come under khamr?

I haven't read the thread thoroughly , but is the small amount of alcohol found in these non alcoholic beers 1)added for flavor, or 2) do they result as a byproduct of a reaction, or 3)are they added for a purpose such as a solvent etc. ?
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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2018 22:25
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2018 00:45
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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2018 11:38
abu mohammed wrote:
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Yes, very refreshing and sobering after so much intoxicating trash being brandied about by brothers inebriated with the self-deception that they are Mujtahids.
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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2018 18:41
abu mohammed wrote:
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Brother Hasan has copied and pasted (not even fully) a banned website on this forum.

His information/conclusion may be partially correct but not entirely correct too.

Beer made from beer is stupid, anyone wanting to drink it would be stupid in my books.

Alcohol can and will be used and can be halal, but circumstances will dictate that.

reliablefatwas. /second-category-alcohol/

See here for decision

www.muftisays.com/forums/23-registered-users--announcemen...
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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2018 19:30
ali wrote:
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Allah protect us all. Not trying to spread negativity.

Didn't copy the whole book because it's too long. The title Liquor-The process of halaalization.

His information/conclusion may be partially correct but not entirely correct too.
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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2018 12:30
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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2018 12:42
guest4556 wrote:
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abu mohammed wrote:
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We've already showed that this drink is made from an alcoholic, intoxicating drink.

Calculations from their own sources....
If drunk in bucket loads, it will intoxicate, eventually!

No need to continue with repeated posts.
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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2018 13:09
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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2018 14:49
guest4556 wrote:
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Lets forget about the Ginger Beer and the Imaams.

Why not email Mufti Ebrahim Desai directly with the complete process of these 0.5% Alcohol drinks, together with photos of what the alcoholic drink and the so-called non alcoholic drinks look like.

Then we'll see what he says on that. Until then, I and others will assume that he has Used Imam Abu Hanifa's verdict due to other reasons and that he would refrain from using such reasons in the new context!

Remember, you are using the Ginger beer fatwa. Not an Alcoholic Beer Fatwa.

I'm sure others appreciate the effort and reasoning given in this thread for it not to continue with regards to these "Beers".

Therefore please post only answers specifically gained for "these beers" and not what the Imaam's have said. Else the thread will be locked.
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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2018 18:27
New question, in detail sent to Mufti Ebrahim Desai.

The guest is using one fatwa for another scenario.

I Remember a thread about asking questions about specifics using all the information available and then presenting it to the mufti to get a more accurate response. Otherwise, you'll end up giving incorrect details and get an incorrect answer.

Anyone recall that type of thread?
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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2018 21:46
Asaaghir wrote:
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Referring to this one?

To fatwa or not to fatwa.

Update: posts with reference from banned sites have been removed. A reminder of the reasons can be found in the post by Ali above.
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