The Salafi Hijack

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#181 [Permalink] Posted on 17th October 2011 18:14

The term salafi is covered in detail in the first talk. So there's not much point asking what it means. Those who don't know, please listen to the intro.

Another point to note is that when we as Hanafi provide solid evidence, it gets rejected with false accusations. Therefore there is a need of providing evidence.

We get accused of following weak Hadith and our intellect. Then people say they see the light from.another tunnel. Well that light is dim.

Therefore there is a need for clarification.

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#182 [Permalink] Posted on 17th October 2011 21:28

"Ibn_Muhammed" wrote:

Why can people on this forum not be happy with a rahma of Allah 'Azzawajal, and be pleased with a difference of opinion. You pray like this, I pray another, Alhamdulillah. We're both muslim. I've seen more 'Baraa here to muslims, 'Salafis', which I dont think anyone here even knows the meaning of, than to the kuffar subhan'Allah. How can a difference in fiqh bring about so much dis unity amazes me.

When we get asked, Why the differences in the 4 schools, we say the same thing about the mercy of Allah. Then we get thrown the same Hadith back in our faces and get told that the Hadith is baseless. Alhumdulillah, we have also cleared that up. www.muftisays.com/forums/the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/4987/... you can see the argument comes a brother who doesn't follow the schools of thought per say, but mainly base his understanding on the hanbali fiqh.

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#183 [Permalink] Posted on 17th October 2011 22:32

Each of the four schools (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali) has its sources in the Qur'an and hadith, and they differ only on interpretation, application, and scholarly analysis of those sources. Therefore, it is very possible that if one finds the arguments and evidences presented in the works on Hanafi jurisprudence to be strong and convincing, he may feel the same way when reading literature from the other three schools. It is for this reason that the great Imams had a deep and mutual respect for one another's legal positions. Consequently, accepting as valid the opinions of all four legal schools would become a cornerstone of Sunni jurisprudence.

However, the etiquette that was and is still observed by each of the four schools is: 'Our opinion is correct with the possibilty of being incorrect, and their opinion is incorrect with the possibility of being correct.'

Hence, the scholars of one school do not criticize the scholars of another school, but rather understand that each is following an interpretation of the same sources of Shari'a (the Qur'an and hadith) as propounded by their Imams - all of whom possessed the ability to infer ruling directly from the Qur'an and hadiths of the Messenger (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

These four schools have been accepted century after century by Ahlus-Sunnah w'al-Jama'ah. Although there are those who do not follow a school of jurisprudence and claim to rely only on the hadiths, what they are in fact claiming is a place alongside the four Imams. These same people also follow the interpretations of scholars they trust, which is similar to following one of the four schools of Islamic jurisprudence. The difference however is that they replace the opinions of the righteous Imams of earlier centuries with the opinions of scholars of latter times.

http://www.muftisays.com/blog/Seifeddine-M/543_07-11-2010/the-legality-of-the-four-schools.html

It has been mentioned that once Imam Shafi'ee رضي الله عنه prayed without raising his hands, out of respect for Imam Abu Hanifa رضي الله عنه.

On the other hand, look at the situation of today. For some reason, the Hanafi madhhab is particularly singled out for abuse. I remember listening to a lecture by Shaykh ul Hadeeth Riyadh ul Haq, and he mentioned that they actually had some brothers up there saying that whoever prays with his hands below the navel is going to Jahannam. La hawla wa la quwwata illah billah.

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#184 [Permalink] Posted on 17th October 2011 23:53

super-glue wrote:

Salam to all,

Also, someone once said to me in regards to this topic, "I am a Salafi because I follow Imam Abu Hanifah" - Honestly I didn't get it then but now I do. The real Salafi is the one who follows the real Salaf so that means I'm Salafi in the true sense right?

Or have I got all this mixed up and lost myself somewhere? I thought religion was easy? It was easy while I followed a Madhab. Now it's just confusing

Our Imam Abu Haneefah (rahimahullaah) said "When a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my madhhab", along with the other famous imaams (Maalik ibn Anas (rahimahullaah), Shaafi'i (rahimahullaah), Ahmad ibn Hanbal (rahimahullaah)) are all quoted to have said the same things.

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#185 [Permalink] Posted on 17th October 2011 23:56

Abu_Hanifa wrote:

This is for you www.muftisays.com/forums/the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/4987/...

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#186 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 00:09

abu mohammed wrote:

thesunnah wrote:

You want my answers, I'm not a scholar or anything near but this is what the brother said, it's not permissible to go against ijmaa, the one that does is a faasiq. You happy now, now hopefully you or abu mohammad can answer my questions.

This ijma' is definite and Lazim (binding), whoever rejects this is not a Kafir but a Fasiq (transgressor). (Usul us Shashi Pg. 79)

Thats a bit serious?!! No one is rejecting here, are we not talking about its purpose in the communities we live in today. Did not 'Ali (RA) choose not to carry out in Kufa?...

At the time of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), there was just one adhaan, but when 'Uthmaan became khaleefah and Madeenah became larger, 'Uthmaan thought that the call for Jumu'ah should be given before the time, so the people could get ready for the prayer. This is what is called the first adhaan.

It was narrated that al-Saa'ib ibn Yazeed said: At the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), Abu Bakr and 'Umar, the first call on Friday used to be when the imaam was sitting on the minbar. But at the time of 'Uthmaan (may Allaah be pleased with him), when the number of people increased, he added the third call. According to one report, 'Uthmaan gave orders for the first call. According to another report, the second adhaan was enjoined by 'Uthmaan. There is no contradiction here, because it is called the third call in the sense that it was something added; the first in the sense that it comes before the adhaan and iqaamah; and the second in the sense that this is an adhaan given in addition to the real adhaan, which was given in al-Zawraa'. Abu 'Abd-Allaah - i.e., al-Bukhaari - said that al-Zawraa' was a place in the market of Madeenah. Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 870.

This adhaan is not a bid'ah or reprehensible innovation, rather it is one of the Sunnahs of the Rightly-Guided Khaleefah 'Uthmaan ibn 'Affaan (may Allaah be pleased with him), which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) urged us to adhere to when he said: "I urge you to adhere to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the Rightly-Guided khaleefahs after me."

Moreover there is a sound reason behind it, which is to alert the people to the fact that the time of prayer is at hand. And it is worth noting that there are no rulings attached to this (first) adhaan, such as the prohibition on buying or selling or the obligation to go to the mosque, and that 'Uthmaan was wise to have this call made in the marketplace and not in the mosque. This is no more than an alert to the people, to let them know that the time for prayer is at hand, because the houses were far away and far from one another, as mentioned above.

Hence it was narrated that 'Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) did not do that in Kufa because there was no need for it.

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#187 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 00:16

Brother Abu_Hanifah, you have taken my post out of context.

It is a genuine mistake or clear deception. One of the two. Allahu Alum, but as always benefit of the doubt.

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#188 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 00:23

super-glue wrote:

Abu_Hanifa wrote:

This is for you www.muftisays.com/forums/the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/4987/...

Jazaak Allah Khair. Praise be to Allaah.

The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was sent with the eternal message of Islam, and the Muslims are commanded to follow that which is in the Book of their Lord and that which is in the Sunnah of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). The Sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them) used to refer to these two sources, then after the death of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), they took on the mission of teaching the people their religion. They scattered throughout the regions, and there is no doubt that they were not all the same in their memorising the Sunnah of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). The fatwas of those who had memorised more were in accordance with the Sunnah, and those that had not memorised as much strove to work out the correct opinion. Hence the differences in the extent to which they had memorised became a cause of the differences between their fatwas.

Moreover, the same text may have been memorised by two Sahaabis, but each of them understood it differently from the other, and the text itself was such that it could be interpreted differently by each, and each of them strove to understand the text according to what the Lawgiver intended, and one of them was right. Hence the differences in understanding of the text is another cause for their differences.

Then knowledge spread far and wide, and there emerged in this religion imams of knowledge and guidance, including the four imams (Abu Haneefah, Maalik, al-Shaafa'i and Ahmad, may Allah have mercy on them). So other reasons for their differences emerged, other than those mentioned above, such as their differences as to whether a hadeeth was sound or weak, and their differences with regard to the principles of understanding the text. This is what is called usool al-fiqh.

The scholars of the Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas said:

As for the reasons for the differences among the scholars, there are many, for example: none of them encompassed all of knowledge, so things that were known to others may have been hidden from one of them, and he may have understood the texts in a way that others did not understand them because the clear evidence was hidden from him. End quote.

Shaykh 'Abd al-'Azeez ibn Baax, Shaykh 'Abd al-Razzaaq 'Afeefi, Shaykh 'Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh 'Abd-Allaah ibn Qa'ood.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa'imah, 2/178

Thus the following becomes clear:

1. It is obligatory for a Muslim to follow that which is in the Holy Qur'aan and that which is proven of the Prophet's Sunnah, and he does not have to follow a specific fiqhi madhhab.

2. There are many reasons for the differences between scholars, and these differences have been compiled in the book Raf' al-Malaam 'an al-A'immat al-A'laam, by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him), and Asbaab Ikhtilaaf al-'Ulama' wa Mawqifuna min dhaalika by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-'Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him).

3. The imams of Islam are not only four; rather they are many, but Allah has caused these four imams to become famous; may Allah have mercy on them.

4. The way of these four imams and other imams of the Muslims is based on following and revering the texts, and they enjoined us to do that and forbade us to imitate them blindly. The one who is pleased with them as imams should be pleased with their way. None of the imams of Islam called on people to adopt his view and give it precedence over the views of anyone else, and Allah has stated that they are above that. Indeed it is proven from all of them they warned against doing this and advised people to follow the Qur'aan and Sunnah.

5. These madhhabs are like schools of understanding of the Qur'aan and Sunnah. The imams strove to work out the rulings that they thought were closest to the Qur'aan and Sunnah and there is nothing wrong with the Muslim following one of these madhhabs, but that is on the condition that if it becomes clear to him that the Sunnah of the Prophet is something other than what he has learned from his madhhab, then what he is required to do is to ignore the view of the madhhab and follow the Sunnah. This is the advice of these imams, as Imam al-Shaafa'i (may Allah be pleased with him) and others said: If the hadeeth is saheeh, then that is my madhhab.

6. People are not equal in their study of the texts of Revelation and they are not equal in their ability to understand those texts. Hence many Muslims are content to follow these imams. As these four imams became famous and had students who propagated their views, therefore you find some people following the Hanafi or Maaliki or Shaafa'i or Hanbali madhhab. Usually the madhhab of the common folk is the madhhab of their Shaykh in their city or village. There is nothing wrong with what the common folk do, because they are enjoined to ask the people of knowledge. But they do not have the right to denounce others for adopting a different opinion or to issue fatwas or to adhere fanatically to the words of their Shaykh. Rather when the truth becomes clear to him he must act upon it and not do anything other than that.

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#189 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 00:26

abu mohammed wrote:

Brother Abu_Hanifah, you have taken my post out of context.

It is a genuine mistake or clear deception. One of the two. Allahu Alum, but as always benefit of the doubt.

Sorry bro, was not implying that you was calling any individual faasiq, but you need to be careful how you answer and structure your comments insha'Allah

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#190 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 00:29

May I ask you brothers a question/advice....what do you think or what are your views of taking/attending classes or lessons from 1. Other Madhabs 2. 'Salafis'?

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#191 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 00:38

1) Other Madhabs: my view is that only scholars should take part. I would not recommend it to the general public.

2) Salafis: my view is that if it's related to Fiqh then avoid it as it will confuse the laymen. As for Aqaaid, the practice of Salafis is that instead of teaching Aqaaid, they attack their own understandings of the Aqaaid of others (this is not a view but something I've experienced).

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#192 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 00:52

FYI All.

The ignorance speaks volumes and the hatred is clear for being a hanafi.

All the negative input via thumbs down, are going against not one but all salafi schools, can you imagine all those people world wide reading this and what they must be thinking.

Grow up and stop making silly accusations or comments in order to dodge the questions.

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#193 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 00:53

"Abu_Hanifa" wrote:

"abu mohammed" wrote:

Brother Abu_Hanifah, you have taken my post out of context. It is a genuine mistake or clear deception. One of the two. Allahu Alum, but as always benefit of the doubt.

Sorry bro, was not implying that you was calling any individual faasiq, but you need to be careful how you answer and structure your comments insha'Allah

Oh! Well I was very carefull ith that one.

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#194 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 01:47

"Abu_Hanifa" wrote:

May I ask you brothers a question/advice....what do you think or what are your views of taking/attending classes or lessons from 1. Other Madhabs 2. 'Salafis'?

1) you will open the doors to pick another ruling to suite ones self.

2) you will learn how to talk ill of the salaf. (and I'm not talking about the respected brothers at Leswin Road, see the talk toward the bottom of the first page).

Example:One may believe in the ruling of 3 talaqs = 3 & give his wife three talaqs out of anger. Then realise his mistake and adopt a view that doesn't coincide with any of the Imams, even imam bukhari and say actually 3=1. Then commit zinah.

Even Imam Hasan RA gave his beloved wife multiple talaqs in one go and regreted that for the rest of his life but never took his wife back, instead gave her many gifts to show his guilt. But today,

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#195 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 01:53

www.muftisays.com/forums/the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/4504/...

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