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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2011 02:36
Jazakallah Daywalk3r.

This is not about Tahajjud, its about how the pseudo Salafi have Hijacked our people.

I agree 100% with the comments about the Salafi approach to every thing. They are miles ahead of us. They are willing to do what ever it takes to get their way. And I respect that.

I'm gonna sound pro Salafi here, but try to see my point;

Us, the Deo's, we wait to get hijacked. Then "maybe" someone might do something to tackle the issue.

We are too laid back, we dont want to pay the Ransom to get freed. Its not "My" son who has been taken, We want every thing on a silver plate. For us (our mosques) its all about me, me, me.

Our elders have the approach of Alif, Baa, Taa, Thaa.... and thats about it. They are affraid of going deep incase they learn something that is against their traditions. (Personal opinion and not anything to do with any masjid)

You go to a salafi Mosque and make a request for any help with regards to the Deen, they will help whole heartedly, You go to an average Mosque and ask for little help or donation, you have to go through Hell. (figuratively speaking)

The Salafi Ask, Listen, & Deliver and I respect them all for that, whether they are pseudo salafi or normal salafi.

Our Mosques.....well I honestly dont know what to say.

The Salafi have Pride in their Deen, us, all we ever seem to moan and groan about is the stupid football and cricket, and that really cheezes me off.

You walk into a Salafi Mosque and in the hallway, outside, in the Wudhu area, all you hear is, "Muhammad SAW; Abu Hurayrah RA; Aisha RA; Khalid bin Waleed RA etc

Our Mosques, all we seem to hear is; Tendulkar; Roonie; Ronaldo.

Its turning out that its not just the Salafi Hijacking our youngsters, its our community who have put us into such a trap.

I have experianced first hand how a very good Hanafi brother was put off by our mosque also another who did the same but is now far from any mosque.

We look at cost, expenses, bills....We come to the conclusion "Whats the point" then we just leave it.

We dont use the Masjid they way our Prophet SAW and his companions did. We have restricted it to a place where we are allowed to pray 5 times a day, and an odd talk here and there.
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2011 10:54
your whole 'system' needs a overhaul - masjids, madresahs, darul looms etc = lock stock and barrel.
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2011 14:21
Why the thumbs down for daywalk3r. I'm sure he means the whole system and not me. I'm gonna give the thumbs up once clarified.
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2011 14:56

Asslamo Allaikum,

Everybody needs to take the blame for it but majority of it DOES FALL in the lap of Ulamah and Darul-ulooms in UK as they are not providing enough opportunities for people to learn.

However the Deobandi laymen must take the blame BECAUSE if they were proactive enough then we would have more demand and thus Ulamah would be forced to do more.

Most Deobandi Halaqahs are dead or skimming along and most initiatives die their own death due to lack of interest while initiatives at Salafi institutes are oversubscribed.

What most Deobandees are very good at is “criticising you and pulling you down!” Two important things:
1)    Are you an Alim?
2)    Who are you Bay’t to?

2 is NOBODY’s personal business to be honest!

If I am given Ijazah by a reputable Alim to teach something then I am authorised and I don’t have to be a graduate of a Darul-uloom (anymore).

In our (Pakistani) case then because are not “Gujrati” its over for us! Because Hazrat X is not my cousin and my father doesn’t come from the same village as Shaykhul-Hadeeth B...I have lost count as to how many times this "Gujrati" issue come into the picture.

It wasn't upto me to be born to "Pakistani Parents" just like it isn't upto a Gujrati to be born into their family and happen to be "cousin" of Hazrat XYZ....

Salafi places and institutes have no such issues! (as I tell by experience). When I have conducted my Halaqahs in Deobandi places (there are deobandees) standing outside ready to pull down and criticise and the whole Masjid talks about a “Non Alim” teaching...

I know a place where a “Non-Alim” studied from Middle-East on the Sunnah and with Taqwa was pulled from teaching Arabic (because he wasn’t an Alim)...A “Maulana” took over and within 3 months all students left!

Just because someone is humble and doesn’t want to advertise their credentials it doesn’t mean that he/she is unqualified.

Therefore shame on anyone who is giving the Brother a thumbs down for highlighting a reality.

I have taught at many placed and in USA & in UK and this is from exprience.

Deobandees in UK are on a sinking ship!
 

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2011 05:22
Muadh_Khan wrote:
Deobandees in UK are on a sinking ship!


alhumdolillah - i jumped off from the Deo ship ;-) Hence the reason (and in response to Br Abu Mohd's question above) i used "your" as i dont class myself as a Deobandi.
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2011 12:01
Salaam daywalk3r,

The spelling for Alhumdulillah is in a thread here
www.muftisays.com/forums/members-research-group/4952/prai...

The above is according the Mufti Shamim whom you know.



The Ulama of Deoband are our back bone. In the beginning of the talk on this thread, Mufti saab explains the greatness of Darul Uloom Deoband.

I think the problem is with the Ulama of 20 - 30 years ago who are still around. The new generation of Ulama who have gained ijazah in the last 20 years or so are more hardcore.

The older generation has managed to please the public rather than maintain the correct stricter approach. Therefore the current "runners" of the Masajid stick to these corrupted innovations and don't take into account what the new generation of scholars have to say.

Mufti Saeed Palanpuri, the Head of Darul Uloom Deoband is one of those scholars who are strict. I remember him trying to ask certain people to change their ways, but to no avail. He even stopped a reciter from leading the the Taraweeh because of his speed.

I think the ulama who speed read like its a race should have their Ijazah removed until they correct their methods.

I can guaranty you, if you asked a scholar of our generation they would disagree with speed reading, however, if you asked them their opinion about another elderly scholar, they would not reply as they would be ashamed to talk against their "teachers".

It's a catch 22 situation.
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2011 15:03
@Muadh_Khan and Daywlak3r.

The Sinking UK Deobandi ship:

As with the comments above, I must admit, I too have drifted away from certain Deobandi Scholars.

Its not the Hardcore stuff anymore.

I get asked many times "Are you Deobandi", Instantly I know what they are about to imply. So my reply is I am a Hanafi not of the Barelwi, or depending on who is asking, I tell them "The Taliban are also Deobandi"

I think the Ulama of Deoband who now hold Britihsh Passports are the ones to blame (As I am only talking about the UK). They together with the Tablighi brothers have diluted the pureness that we want.

The Ulama have given in to the wants of the locals and the Tablighi's have no reference to any of the information they portray. Thats not to say the Tablighi Jamaat are wrong in what they do, just that this where the Salafi have the upper hand. The Salafi quote Hadith, the tablighi's qoute stories from experiance.

It's not really a Salafi Hijack, it's the Deobandi's Bangles. Thats why we are losing our brothers and sisters to the pseudo Salafi fashion.
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2011 19:34
@Daywalk3er

Apperently, Mufti Saab has said not to go to the Eid Prayer in the Park as it is Fitna. Mixture of male and female.

He has requested us not to go or to let the women folk go.
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2011 21:14
jzk. Yes i heard. May Allah preserve him.

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 29th August 2011 23:59
Inshallah will be making some posts on this thread after Eid ........ in the mean time a talk below to ponder over.
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 30th August 2011 00:56
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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 8th September 2011 14:04
From the talk on first page.

Youtube Video
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 28th September 2011 23:36
Assalaamu'alaikum,

I was reading through this thread and found some points very interesting and others feeble and time wasting, I thought that making an account especially for this would be worth it.

I'm really dissapointed with this comment;

abu mohammed wrote:
@Daywalk3er

Apperently, Mufti Saab has said not to go to the Eid Prayer in the Park as it is Fitna. Mixture of male and female.

He has requested us not to go or to let the women folk go.



I didn't go to the Eid salah and heard many didn't go because of what you typed here and the fatwa given by our mufti saab, I was told by many friends that attended the event that it was completely segregated and there was no fitna, I wish sometimes people can clarify things whith the organisers before they issue a fatwa, I think and correct me if I'm wrong, but this falls under the hadeeth "wa kana yanha 'an qeela wa qaal" (he (the prophet pbuh) used to prohibit 'it was said' and 'he said'"... people need to verify things before they speak, I fear that sometimes we fall into great slander and backbiting.
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 28th September 2011 23:47
Assalaamu'alaikum,

Just the other day, I spoke to some salafi brothers who attend tarbeeyyah mosque on leswin road, I asked one of their brothers who is currently studying about following a madhab and he told me he recomends it and that he's a follower of the hanbali madhab, I was shocked after hearing this thinking they were completely against the four madhaahib.

He then told me that these madhaahib have been given great acceptance by the ummah so its highly recomended to follow one but at the same time baring in mind that only the prophet (pbuh) was free from error so we follow a madhab as a guidline and IF we are able to find something which is authentic and contradicts the madhab then we must follow it.

He also praised all four imaams, stating that if thay ever disagree with them it doesn't mean they're degrading them in anyway, he said they were all mujtahideen and if they made a mistake then inshaAllaah Allaah will give them a reward.

He also stated that for those who have just become muslims or haven't studied anything should either follow a madhab or a shiekh they really trust until matters start to become clear for them.

I'm not an aalim or anything close, but this really makes a lot of sense to me, if this is incorrect can someone please clear it up for me because this has really opened my mind and has removed many misconceptions about this group that has been spread by our deobandi ulamaa.
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 29th September 2011 04:05
Welcome the site thesunnah,

When Shaytaan approached the first people, he didn't say "Make false Gods and worship it"

He first told them to preserve the image of pious people by painting their pictures so they can be remembered. No harm done right?

After this was widely accepted, he moved up a step. Shaytaan then told them that why paint pictures which don't really reflect their greatness and piety. Why don't you build statues of them so they are preserved more accurately.

This was then accepted and it made sense to them too. Time went by, the descendants saw their forefathers praying near the statues (not to the statues) for blessings and hope of acceptance.

Time went by more and slowly, the statues then became idols hence making idol worshiping the oldest false religion in the world.

From a suggestion of clean intentions in plain sight was a stepping stone to divert Muslims away from the worshiping of One Allah.


This statement as much as it makes sense is the very poison that has struck ignorance in the name of knowledge, "only the Prophet (pbuh) was free from error so we follow a Madhab as a guidline and IF we are able to find something which is authentic and contradicts the Madhab then we must follow it"

Firstly, we do not follow a Madhab as a guideline as they are rulings. Rulings are not guidelines. All the rulings in each school of thought is backed by Qur'aan, Hadeeth and research which we nowadays can only dream of.

You say, "I'm not an Aalim or anything close" - Does it not make you wonder why powerful 'Ulamaa with knowledge in depth have followed the Madhaahib strictly and not resorted to their own understanding for centuries? The reason is because the Madhaahib are sound.

By saying something is authentic from your own understanding is not authentic as you cannot consider your own understanding as sound and authentic. Otherwise in a way, we should all be following you.

In one sentence, they say they have full respect for the Madhaahib yet by saying "IF..." they have rejected their works and spat on that respect by saying their work was weak and their sources were not authentic.

Just like with the story aove, this "IF" sentence is a stepping stone for laymen to make their own judgements and rulings on their own understandings thinking they have the stronger source. They will in turn follow the rulings which suit their needs making most disputed matters purpose driven. This can lead to an Islam where each act will have hundreds of rulings. What is no permissible to one will be Sunnah to another or even worse. In fact, this has already started with Salafis doing Masah on cotton socks which has never been done in the past.

There's mountains of evidence about the salafi's disrespect towards the Salaf-as-Saliheen, their disregard of Hadeeth, their rejection of Qur'aan Aayaat and their sheer ignorance of Islamic rulings.

Please take out a few hours some day and thoroughly go through:
www.abumohammed.muftisays.com/
www.muftisays.com/forums/76-the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/
Should we follow a Madhab

Jazakallah
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