The Meaning of Jama‘ah

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2018 07:29

Were you to ask the ignorant people about the greatest mass, they will say, the majority of people. They do not know that the Jama‘ah is an ‘alim holding fast to the footsteps of the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) and his way, so whoever is with him and follows him, that is the Jama‘ah

The sixteenth issue[1] is that the narration of those who narrated, “and that is the Jama‘ah (Group),”[2] as the meaning of the saved sect, is in need of commentary, because although its interpretation is clear by means of the elucidation of another narration – and that is his statement, “what I and my companions are upon,”[3] – the meaning of the word, “Jama‘ah,” in terms of its intent in the unqualified usage of the Shar‘iah is in need of commentary; as it has appeared in many hadiths:

  1. from them is the hadith which we are commenting on;
  2. from them is what is authentic from Ibn ‘Abbas from the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace), he said: “Whoever sees from his commander anything he dislikes, let him endure it, for indeed the one who departs from the Jama‘ah one hand span, then dies, he dies the death of Jahilyyah.”[4]
  3. And it is authentic from the hadith of Hudhayfah, he said: I said: “O Messenger of Allah! Verily we were in [a period of] Jahiliyyah and evil, and Allah brought this goodness to us. Then, is there any evil after this goodness?” He said: “Yes.” I said: “And is there any goodness after that evil?” He said: “Yes, and there is dinginess therein.” I said: “And what is its dinginess?” He said: “A people following other than [my] guidance, you recognise [some things] from them [as correct], and you do not recognise [other things].” And in another narration: “A people following other than my guidance and adopting other than my Sunnah, you recognise [some things] in them and do not recognise [other things].” I said: “Then, is there any evil after the goodness?” He said: “Yes, callers on the gates of Jahannam. Whoever answers them in that [call], they will throw them therein.” I said: “O Messenger of Allah! Describe them for us.” He said: “They will be of our complexion, and they will speak with our tongues.” I said: “What do you advise me, if that [time] reaches me?” He said: “[That] you stick to the Jama‘ah of the Muslims and their Imam.” I said: “And if they do not have a Jama‘ah, or an Imam?” He said: “Withdraw from the sects, all of them, even if it were that you bite on the root of a tree, until death reaches you, and you are in that [state].”[5]

Al-Tirmidhi and al-Tabari transmitted from Ibn ‘Umar, he said: ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab delivered a sermon to us at al-Jabiyah, and he said: “I stand amongst you in the standing-place of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) amongst us, when he said: ‘I bequeath to you my companions, and then those who follow them and then those who follow them, and then lying will spread, until a man will take oath and will not be asked to take oath, and will bear testimony and will not be asked to bear testimony. [Incumbent] on you is the Jama‘ah! And beware of division! A man must not be in seclusion with a woman, for indeed a man is not secluded with a woman except the third of them is Satan. Satan is with the individual, and he is farther from two [people]. Whoever desires the centre of Jannah, let him adhere to the Jama‘ah. And whoever’s good pleases him and evil displease him, that is a believer.”[6]

  1. And [it is reported] in al-Tirmidhi from Ibn ‘Abbas, he said: The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said: “The hand of Allah is with the Jama‘ah.” [It is] an uncommon hadith.[7]
  2. And [he narrated] the like of it from Ibn ‘Umar, he said: The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said: “Verily Allah will not unite my ummah” – or he said “the ummah of Muhammad” – “on misguidance, and the hand of Allah is with the Jama‘ah, and whoever is isolated, is isolated in the Fire.”[8]
  3. And Abu Dawud transmitted from Abu Dharr, he said: The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said: “Whoever parts from the Jama‘ah one hand span, he has removed the noose of Islam from his neck.”
  4. And [it is narrated] from ‘Arfajah, he said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) say: “Verily there will be tribulations after tribulations in my ummah, so whoever wishes to split the affair of the Muslims while they are united, strike him with the sword whoever he may be.”[9]

The people differed over the meaning of the “Jama‘ah” intended by these hadiths, according to five views:

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2018 07:30
The first of them is that it is the greatest mass (al-sawad al-a‘zam) of the adherents to Islam, and this is what the statement of Abu Ghalib points to[10], that the greatest mass are the ones that are saved from the sects, so whatever they are upon of the matter of their religion, that is the truth, and whoever opposes them, dies the death of Jahilyyah, whether he opposes them in something from the Shari‘ah, or with respect to their Imam and their Sultan – then, he is an opponent of the truth.

From those who professed this [view] is Abu Mas‘ud al-Ansari and [‘Abd Allah] ibn Mas‘ud.

Thus, it is narrated that when ‘Uthman was killed, Abu Mas‘ud al-Ansari was asked about the fitnah, so he said: “[Incumbent] on you is the Jama‘ah, for indeed Allah will not unite the ummah of Muhammad on misguidance, and endure until the righteous person finds rest or rest is found from a wicked person [by means of death],” and he said: “Beware of division for indeed division is misguidance.”

And Ibn Ma‘sud said: “[Incumbent] on you is hearing and obedience, and the Jama‘ah, for indeed it is the rope of Allah which He has commanded [you] with,” and then he made his hand into a fist, and he said: “Verily, those you dislike amongst the Jama‘ah are better than those you love within the division.”

And [it is narrated] from al-Hasan [ibn ‘Ali]: It was said to him: “Abu Bakr is the caliph of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace)?” He said: “Yes, by the One besides Whom there is no deity! It does not befit Allah to unite the ummah of Muhammad on misguidance.”

Based on this view, the mujtahids of the ummah, its ‘ulama’ and the adherents of the Shari‘ah who practise upon it, are included in the Jama‘ah, and those besides them are included in their ruling, because they are followers of them, and imitators of them, so all who come out of their group they are the ones who are isolated, and they are prey to Satan; and all of the people of innovation (bid‘ah) are included amongst these, because they oppose those who came earlier from the ummah, and are not included in their group at all.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2018 07:31
Second, it is the group of the imams of the mujtahid ‘ulama’, so whoever comes out of what the group of the ‘ulama’ of the ummah are upon, he dies the death of Jahiliyyah, because Allah has appointed them as a proof over the worlds, and they are the ones that are meant by his (upon him peace) statement: “Verily, Allah will not unite my ummah on misguidance.” And [the explanation of] this is that the common people take their religion from them and take recourse to them in legal cases, and they are followers of them, so the meaning of his statement, “my ummah will not unite on error,” is: the ‘ulama’ of my ummah will not unite on error.

From those who professed this [view] are ‘Abd Allah ibn al-Mubarak, Ishaq ibn Rahway, and a group of the Salaf, and this is the view of the legal theorists.

It was said to ‘Abd Allah ibn al-Mubarak: “Who are the Jama‘ah that must be imitated?” He said: “Abu Bakr and ‘Umar,” and he continued to list [them] until he stopped at Muhammad ibn Thabit and al-Husayn ibn Waqid. Then it was said: “They are dead, so [who are they] from the living?” He said: “Abu Hamzah al-Sukkari.”

And [it was narrated] from al-Musayyib ibn Rafi‘, he said: “When some judicial decree came to them, not found in the Book of Allah, nor the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah, they called it, ‘the selections of the rulers,’ and then the people of knowledge assembled for [consideration of] it, so whatever their judgement agreed on, it is truth.”

And the like of what Ibn al-Mubarak said was [narrated] from Ishaq ibn Rahwayh.

Based on this view, there is no involvement in this group of the one who is not a mujtahid ‘alim, because he is included in the people of imitation (taqlid). Hence, whoever from them practises that which opposes them, he is the person who dies a Jahili death.

And none of the innovators are included amongst them because, firstly, the ‘alim does not innovate, and only the one who claims knowledge for himself – although it is not so – innovates, and because the innovation expels him from the characteristic of those whose opinions are taken into consideration. This is based on the view that the innovator is not taken into consideration within consensus. If the view of their consideration is taken, then [this is only] in [issues] besides the issue in which they have innovated, because in the innovation itself, they have contravened consensus.

Hence, based on every possibility, they are not included in “the greatest mass” at all.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2018 07:31
Third, that the Jama‘ah is the group of Sahabah specifically, since they erected the pillars of religion and anchored its poles, and they are the ones that will never assemble on error, though that is possible for other than them.

Do you not see his (upon him peace) statement: “The hour will not commence on any who say: ‘Allah, Allah,’”[11] and his statement: “The hour will not commence but on evil people”[12]? Since he (upon him peace) foretold that from the times [to come], there are times in which they will assemble on misguidance and disbelief.

They [i.e. the scholars] said: And of those who professed this opinion is ‘Umar ibn ‘Abd al-‘Aziz. Thus, Ibn Wahb narrated from Malik, he said: ‘Umar ibn ‘Abd al-‘Aziz would say: “The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) and the authorities of the affair after him instituted ways. Adopting them is confirmation of the Book of Allah, and completion of obedience to Allah, and strength on the religion of Allah. No one has [the right to] change them, nor to alter them, nor to look into what opposes them. Whoever takes guidance from them is guided and whoever seeks help from them is aided and whoever opposes them has followed other than the way of the believers, and Allah turned him to what he turned, and He will make him reach Jahannam, and an evil destination it is.” Malik said: “The determination of ‘Umar on this pleased me.”

Based on this view, the word “Jama‘ah” is in accordance with the other narration in his (upon him peace) statement, “what I and my companions are upon,” so it is as though it goes back to [the opinion] that whatever they said and whatever they instituted, and whatever they exercised their opinions on, is a proof with absoluteness, due to the testimony of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) of this for them specifically, in his statement: “[Incumbent] on you is my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the guided caliphs,”[13] and the likes of this, and because they are receivers of the prophetic speech, and the pavers of the Shari‘ah, who understood the intent of Allah by reception from His Prophet orally [i.e. directly], with knowledge and insight of the places of legislation and the indicators of circumstances; as opposed to other than them.

Therefore, all that they instituted is Sunnah, without speculation therein, in contrast to [those] besides them, because in that there is scope for speculation for the people of ijtihad, in terms of rejection or approval. Thus, the people of innovations are, therefore, not included in the Jama‘ah based on this view, absolutely.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2018 07:31
The fourth is that the Jama‘ah is the group of the adherents of Islam, when they agree on a matter, then it is incumbent on other than them from the people of all religions to follow them, and they are those who Allah has guaranteed His Prophet (upon him peace) that He will not unite them on misguidance, and if disagreement occurred between them, it is necessary to recognise the truth is within what they disagreed on.

Al-Shafi‘i said: “There is no heedlessness in the Jama‘ah of the meaning of the Book of Allah, nor the Sunnah, nor analogy, and heedlessness is only in division.”

It appears that this view goes back to the second [view] and it also requires that which it requires; or it goes back to the first view, which is more apparent, and it has the property of the first, in that it is necessary for it to be the mujtahids from amongst them, and thereupon, their agreement, on this view, will never be innovation; thus, they are therefore the saved sect.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2018 07:37
And the fifth is that which was preferred by al-Tabari, the Imam, in that the Jama‘ah is the group of Muslims when they unite on a commander, then he (upon him peace) commanded adherence to him, and he forbade parting from the ummah in that which they united upon in terms of their appointing him over them, because their parting [from them] will not go beyond one of two characteristics: either [it is] due to condemnation of them for obedience to their leader and attacking him in his conduct that was approved [by them] for no reason but for an interpretation of innovating an innovation in religion, like the Haruriyyah (Khawarij) who the ummah were ordered to fight, and the Prophet (Allah blessed him and grant him peace) called, “deviated from the religion”; or to seek leadership after the conclusion of the pledge to the commander of the Jama‘ah, since it is breaking an agreement and revoking a contract after its conclusion. And he (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said: “Whoever comes towards my ummah to split their group, strike his neck, whoever he may be.”

Al-Tabari said: Thus, this is the meaning of the command to stick to the Jama‘ah.

He said: As for the Jama‘ah which when it agrees on consenting to appoint a commander, the one who disassociates from them, his death is Jahilli, it is the group which Abu Mas‘ud al-Ansari and others described, and that is the bulk of people and the majority of them from the people of knowledge and religion and other than them, and that is the greatest mass [of believers].

He said: ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) explained that. Thus, it is narrated from ‘Amr ibn Maymun al-Awdi, he said: ‘Umar said to Suhayb when he was stabbed: “Lead the people in prayer for three [days], and ‘Uthman, ‘Ali, Talhah, al-Zubayr, Sa‘d and ‘Abd al-Rahman should enter upon me, and Ibn ‘Umar should enter to the side of the house – and he has nothing of authority. Then, stand, O Suhayb, over their heads with the sword! If five [of them] pledge allegiance [to one of them] and one man turns [on his heel], strike his head with the sword, and if four pledge allegiance and two men turn [on their heels], strike their heads; until they give their assurance on [the caliphate of] one man.”

He said: Thus, the Jama‘ah which the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) commanded adherence to, and he called the one isolated from them “one who has parted from them,” is equivalent to the group which ‘Umar obligated caliphate for the one they agree on, and he commanded Suhayb to strike the head of the one isolated from them with the sword, because of the abundance of the number of those who agreed to pledge to him and the fewness of the number that is isolated from them.

He said: As for the report in which it is mentioned that the ummah will not assemble on misguidance, its meaning is that He will not unite them on causing deviation from the truth in that which afflicts them in the matter of their religion, such that the entirety of them would have deviated from [true] knowledge and missed it, and that will not occur in the ummah.

This is the entirety of his [i.e. al-Tabari’s] speech, and it has been transmitted with the meaning [of his statement], and [in] seeking out most of [its] wording.

Its upshot is that the Jama‘ah goes back to the agreement on an Imam that is in accordance with the Book and Sunnah, and that is manifest in [showing] that uniting on other than the Sunnah is outside of the meaning of the Jama‘ah mentioned in the hadiths, like the Khawarij and those who tread their path.

Thus, these are five opinions that revolve around the consideration of the people of Sunnah and adherence, and that they are those that are intended by the hadiths. Let us adopt that as a basis, and build on that another discussion which is:

The seventeenth issue, and that is that everyone agrees on the consideration of the people of knowledge and ijtihad, whether the common people are added to them or not. If the common people are not added to them, there is no difficulty that the consideration is only of the largest mass of the ‘ulama’ whose ijtihad is taken into consideration, so whoever strays from them and dies, his death is Jahili. And if the common people are added to them, then [that is] on the basis of following, because they do not know the Shari‘ah, so it is necessary for them to refer their religion to the ‘ulama’, since if they agreed on opposition to the ‘ulama’ in what they determined for them, they would be the majority and the greatest mass in the visible ummah, due to the fewness of the ‘ulama’ and the abundance of the ignorant ones; and no one can say that following the group of the common people is required, and the ‘ulama’ are parting from the group and are the ones that are condemned in the hadith. Rather, the reality is the reverse, and that the ‘ulama’ are the greatest mass, even if they are few, and the common people are the ones that departed from the Jama‘ah if they oppose [them]. If they agree, that is the obligation on them.

This is why when Ibn al-Mubarak was asked about the Jama‘ah which are imitated, he answered by saying: “Abu Bakr and ‘Umar” and he continued to list [them] until he stopped at Muhammad ibn Thabit and al-Husayn ibn Waqid. Then it was said: “They are dead, so [who are they] from the living?” He said: “Abu Hamzah al-Sukkari” – and he is Muhammad ibn Maymun al-Marwazi.

Thus, it is not possible that the common people are taken into consideration in these properties absolutely.

Based on this, were we to assume an age is free of a mujtahid, it is not possible for the common people to follow the likes of them, and their group would not be regarded as “the greatest mass” notified in the hadith, those that the one who opposes, his death is Jahili. Rather, transmitting from the mujtahids will take the place of the existence of the mujtahids. Hence, that which is binding on the common people in the presence of mujtahids is what is binding on the people of a supposed time that is free of mujtahids.

Also, following the analysis of one who has no analytical [ability], and the ijtihad of one who has no [ability to perform] ijtihad is pure deviance and is throwing in the dark, and this is the requirement of the authentic hadith: “Verily, Allah will not take knowledge by extracting [it], extracting it from the people, but will take knowledge by taking [the lives of] the ‘ulama’, until He does not leave an ‘alim; the people will adopt for [their] leaders the ignorant ones, so they will be asked, and issue fatwa without knowledge, so will be misguided and misguide [others].”

Abu Nu‘aym narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Qasim al-Tusi, the servant of Muhammad ibn Aslam al-Tusi, he said: I heard Ihsaq ibn Rahwayh – and he mentioned in a hadith he traced to the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace), he said: “Verily, Allah is not to gather the ummah of Muhammad on misguidance. So when you see dissention, [incumbent] on you is the greatest mass.” A man said: “O Abu Ya‘qub! Who is the greatest mass?” He said: “Muhammad ibn Aslam and his companions and those who follow him.”

Then he said: A man asked Ibn al-Mubarak: “Who is the greatest mass?” He said: “Abu Hamzah al-Sukkari.” Then Ishaq said: In that time, meaning, Abu Hamzah, and in our time, Muhammad ibn Aslam and those who follow him.”

Then Ishaq said: “Were you to ask the ignorant people about the greatest mass, they will say, the majority of people. They do not know that the Jama‘ah is an ‘alim holding fast to the footsteps of the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) and his way, so whoever is with him and follows him, that is the Jama‘ah.” And then Ishaq said: “I have not heard a scholar for fifty years that was stronger in adherence to the footsteps of the Prophet (Allah bess him and grant him peace) than Muhammad ibn Aslam.”

So examine this narration which clarifies the error of those that assume that the Jama‘ah is the majority of people, even if there is no scholar amongst them, and this is the understanding of the common people, not the understanding of the ‘ulama’. Let the one that is given accordance keep his feet firm in this slippery place, so that he does not deviate from the straight path. And there is no guidance but from Allah.

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2018 19:36
So what is the conclusion ? and what is the implication for us today ? What is Jamaah today,who is the Amir who must be followed even if we dislike him ?

If we look at the groups existing today,there is Sunni and Shi’a.Let us say it is Sunni,then Deobandi,Barelvi,Ahle Hadeeth are all included in it (who differ on many points with each other)..Which one of them is taken as “The group” mentioned ? and if we accept one view that “the group” does not necessarily mean the majority group,and that it can be even one single scholar,how to recognise him ?

If “the group” is defined on the basis of fiqh,again we have many subgroups amongst those who are commonly accepted as ‘Ahle Sunna wal jamaah’..

Politically and administratively the ummah today have no single Amir we are advised to follow in Hadeeth mentioned above ? How to recognise the Amir ?

Can you please elaborate further ?
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2018 04:11
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Looking at various groups, I have inferred a three point formula to determine who is right and who is wrong.

Here is a simple formula to know which group is right.

1. Oneness of Allah
2. Status of Prophet Muhammad SAWS
3. Status of the Sahaba RA

Any group which commits shirk and compromises on the tauheed of Allah is wrong.

Any group which over praises Prophet Muhammad SAWS and brings him to the level of Allah is wrong.

Any group which doesn’t give due respect to Prophet Muhammad SAWS either by rejecting his ahadith or by rejecting his finality in prophethood or denouncing or insulting his sunnahs and de-values him in any way is wrong.

Any group who over praises some Sahaba RA and does ghulw in their respect while denouncing others is wrong.

Any group which rejects the understanding of Sahaba RA and prefers their own interpretation of Islam is wrong.

Thus, those who compromise on the status of Allah, of Prophet Muhammad SAWS and of Sahaba RA are all wrong.

Now another question arises that who will define that what oneness of Allah really means? That what is the status of Prophet Muhammad SAWS and the Sahaba RA?

The ulema e haq who will define the true meaning of Tauheed, the status of Prophet Muhammad SAWS and the status of Sahaba RA have four qualities.

1. Their sanad reaches back to Prophet Muhammad SAWS through authentic teachers.
2. They don't sell their deen for dunia
3. They don't change the teachings of deen out of fear and oppression
4. They are the best in akhlaq

How to identify them?

Action Speak louder than Words. Looking at the present age. Which group is striving in every area of the deen instead of focusing on only one aspect. Who are the ones who are fighting the kuffar in the battle field? Who are the ones who are propagating this deen to the best of their ability? Who have successfully maintained the orthodox form of Tazkiya? (even if there are few genuine but from which group even those few belong to?) Which group has produced the best, polished ulema of repute to whom traditional Muslims look for guidance? People of which group have successfully established an Islamic government in a sizable area even if it was for a few years? Ulema and people of which group have mostly sacrificed their lives for protecting the honour of Sahaba RA and Prophet Muhammad SAWS?

Sar bakaf Sar Bulund Deoband Deoband

However, I have observed there are two kinds of deobandis now.

Original Deobandis who are following the footsteps of their elders and are exerting all their energies for the establishment of this deen. (They are few)
Banaspati Deobandis who are either sellouts or have lost the context of their understanding of deen and have become overzealous about their group (shoba).

Quote:
Politically and administratively the ummah today have no single Amir we are advised to follow in Hadeeth mentioned above ? How to recognise the Amir ?


1. Our Amir is in Afghanistan if we are able to migrate.

2. After the collapse of Ottomon Empire, the shobas of deen have also split. This deen is now in fragments.

a. We have to practice those clear aspects of deen which we know to develop a strong connection with Allah. We have to improve our fundamentals of deen. This will result in developing and improving our insight and intuition with which we are able to further differentiate between right and wrong.

For example, in order to know the fiqh of deen we need to do Dars e Nizami and Takhassus course after that. However, in order to develop baseerah we need to practice our deen and abstain from sins. For this we only need to learn the basics. As we will further keep on practicing our deen Allah, will Himself guide us and make us meet certain individuals, make us listen certain lectures, make us read certain posts and books to clear our mis conceptions and educate us.

The most important thing is sincerity and the development of our baseerah.

We do not lack academics, we lack aulia e haq. Those ulema who know and practice the inner and outer form of Islam. they are the Rabbani Ulema and they are few in number. if you are lucky to find one (and Allah will make you meet such a person if you ask Him for), connect with such an alim (without being obsessed).

b. It is not only one alim but a body of ulema. One single alim doesn't know all the aspects of deen. Knowledge of deen is an ocean. For example, if you want to clear the doubts Shias create, an alim belonging to Sipah Sahaba is superior to assist you than an alim belonging to Tablighi Jammat. If you want to know the solution of removing menace from your heart then Sufi Sarwar Sahab or Mufti Hassan Sahab will be superior to an alim who doesn't have ijazah in tazkiya. Secondly, avoid fresh darul uloom graduates and always try to consult senior ulema who have more experience and expertise.

c. Read and listen the books and recordings of those ulema carefully and closely, who have been assassinated by the enemas of Allah because if they were not valuable for Islam, why would the kuffar assassinate them. For example, Maulana Azzam Rh, Maulana Azam Tariq Rh, Maulana Haq Nawaz Rh, Allama Ali Sher Haideri Rh, Maulana Aslam Sheikhupuri Rh.

d. There is a special co relation, a special kind of similarity between great personalities and great events of history. Try to find the connection and you will know for sure that who are the ulema e haq and whom we need to follow. In the light of Quran and Sunnah, study the history and try to find that on which point of history we are standing today and then looking at the heros and villains of Islam in the past, co relate them with today's figures of authority and knowledge. Then try to find out that who are the ones who are following their elders in serving the deen the way they did and who are the ones who are following their elders to destroy Islam the way their elders did. In this case I don't mean elders in regards of lineage but elders in regards of similarity of actions and traits.

In a nutshell...

a. Develop your baseerah by improving your ibadah and abstaining from sins, be sincere and ask Allah for guidance constantly .
b. Follow a body of genuine ulema, all belonging to one school of thought but different areas of din within that school of thought.
c. Prefer the teachings of those muqallid ulema who have been assassinated while they were on haq.
d. In the light of Quran and Sunnah study your history and learn from it.

Keep on striving to know the truth. Never give up and never feel shame in asking questions even if they seem ridiculous to others. Those who are afraid to be wrong can't be corrected. Those who are afraid to do mistakes don't do anything. Those who are afraid to fall, don't move and those who don't move can't reach the destination.

This world is a madrassah. Learn from it. Learning is difficult. Sometimes the one educating you is harsh, sometimes polite. To bear the harshness of learning, you need a strong soul. To strengthen the soul you need spiritual nourishment. Quality dhikr and quality ibadah. Long tablighi journeys combined with essential knowledge of deen and connection with a genuine Shaykh will bring you to a level where you will yourself know what to do and whom to follow.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2018 06:07
sipraomer wrote:
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JazakAllah Brother,only one or two more questions :

1) I love Deoband but their presence outside subcontinent is ‘insignificant’ while the Hadeeth is general for the entire umma. You may challange me on this point but I would most humbly submit that ‘it is a fact’...

No matter how much we love Deoband it’s presence in Arab lands,the heart of Islam,is almost negligible.From Iran crossing across Iraq to Syria,Jordan,Lebanon,Saudia,Yemen,gulf,Egypt,Libya,Morocco to the rest of Africa (except may be South Africa) it’s influence is no where to be seen.If you say,by Deoband you mean the MINHAJ of Deoband,even that is not strictly present in those areas,though in broad sense AHLE SUNNA are present everywhere (Alhamdolillah) and similarly ULUMAE HAQ are also present everywhere,but we can hardly put the mark of Deoband on them.

As I submitted,Deobandi minhaj (by this name) is a fairly recent phenomena in historical context,the umma had lived almost 1200 to 1300 years before Deoband...and inshaAllah shall keep living till the end...and the Ahadeeth mubaraka on the subject concerned are for all the times
(past,present and future),so limiting it to a particular group of uluma would be rather too much.Obviously ulumae haq were present before Deoband and even today ulumae haq and those on the minhaj of Sunna must be present,say in Western Africa, who may not even associate themselves to Deoband. So the answer may not be as simple as you make it sound...

2) Same goes for the issue of AMIR who MUST be followed. That term,in my understanding,applies to KHALIFA. In times of Amir ul Muminin Mulla Umar رحمه الله we could consider applying it to Afghanistan but hardly today. Khilafat ala minhaj nabuwwat encompasses many things including issueing of religious verdict ,political and administrative authority,the powers to implement his orders upon umma (even if only de juror not de facto).In that sense there is hardly any AMIR today for the entire umma.

والله اعلم
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2018 11:33
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1) Brother! I don't know which school of thought you belong to. However, Deoband is a term the people of subcontinent use out of necessity. The actual maslak is Hanafi madhab which is the largest portion of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama and you will agree that this is a fact. Within this madhab are two groups in the subcontinent. One is the original Hanafi group and second group is the imposter group. Hanafi madhab has always been there as Imam Abu Hanifa Rh was the student of Imam Hamaad Rh who was the student of Abdullah ibn Masaood RA. Similarly all of the four imams were connected to the Sahaba RA through their teachers.

Secondly, Hanafi Madhab or any other madhab is not separate to hadith. Hadith is the second source from which they deduct their fiqh. I think you may know the importance of taqleed and I think you are aware about the problems with Salafis.

2) As far as influence is concerned, I don't know in which sense you are using this term. This is because Tablighi Jamaat started and maintained by Deobandi Ulema is spread all over the world and even it is propagating it's message in Saudia Arabia un officially. There are indeed ulema e haq outside Deoband and I don't disagree with that. However, when you judge a group or situation then you have to judge it as a whole and not on individual level. For instance, in refuting the Shia, Deobandi ulema made the most contribution. The rest just followed their lead when they started the movement already. After many decades of silence , the deobandis started a meaningful and fruitful jihad in Afghanistan and the rest followed their lead. Traditional Muslims and Ulema of the world keep Deobandi ulema of Pakistan in a very high esteem.

Maulana Musa Rh of Pakistan and Shaykh Abul Hasan Ali Nadvi Rh from India are some of them who were respected and regarded as legends all around the Muslim world. Ulema e Deoband were the ones who started a Khilafat Movement which was the only movement in the whole of the Muslim world after the collapse of Ottomon Empire. Since Mujaddid Alif Thani Rh all the mujadideen have been from this area.

2) Mullah Umar RH was not accepted as an amir from every person calling himself Muslim as there are many types of Muslims around the world. Mulla Umar's Rh rule was not on all over the Muslim majority lands. His rule was only on 97 or 98% of Afghanistan. So by your definition what is the difference between then and now?

If Mullah Umar RH being a Taliban Leader ruling Afghanistan with Justice, implementing Shariah in that land as much as was possible for him is fit to be followed then what is the problem with the current Amir. Today Taliban are controlling almost 60% of Afghan land and there is a civil war going on there. At that time also there was civil war. So what makes Mullah Haibatullah Akhundzada less of an Amir compared to Mullah Umar Rh.

3) The army of Mahdi and Jesus AS will come from Khorasan (Afghanistan) so here is the amir of all the muslimeen of the world.

4) Lastly, I just mentioned the characteristics of the right group and traits of ulema e haq. You may follow those in whom you find these traits. However, in my locality, I can only find Ulema e Deoband with these traits.

The point which I am trying to make is that Ulema e Deoband have made the most contribution in strengthening and furthering the cause of deen. However, I haven't said that there is nothing good else where. It's just that if you compare Ulema e Deoband with other contemporary ulema e haq of other madhabs , you will clearly see that the deobandi contribution towards the betterment of Ummah has far surpassed the workings of other ulema. (You may call me biased) I admit that I haven't visited all the Muslim majority countries so my observation is limited and my conclusion can be wrong.

However, the real thing is not about labels but the real thing is about concepts. If you feel that the principles I discovered and shared are correct then apply them and follow whoever you seem fit.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2018 15:12
sipraomer wrote:
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Brother, can you please, provide a reference for these 3 narrations?

Jazak'Allah.

Thus, it is narrated that when ‘Uthman was killed, Abu Mas‘ud al-Ansari was asked about the fitnah, so he said: “[Incumbent] on you is the Jama‘ah, for indeed Allah will not unite the ummah of Muhammad on misguidance, and endure until the righteous person finds rest or rest is found from a wicked person [by means of death],” and he said: “Beware of division for indeed division is misguidance.”

And Ibn Ma‘sud said: “[Incumbent] on you is hearing and obedience, and the Jama‘ah, for indeed it is the rope of Allah which He has commanded [you] with,” and then he made his hand into a fist, and he said: “Verily, those you dislike amongst the Jama‘ah are better than those you love within the division.”

And [it is narrated] from al-Hasan [ibn ‘Ali]: It was said to him: “Abu Bakr is the caliph of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace)?” He said: “Yes, by the One besides Whom there is no deity! It does not befit Allah to unite the ummah of Muhammad on misguidance.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2018 15:15
sipraomer wrote:
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And, this one.

Jazak'Allah.

And [it was narrated] from al-Musayyib ibn Rafi‘, he said: “When some judicial decree came to them, not found in the Book of Allah, nor the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah, they called it, ‘the selections of the rulers,’ and then the people of knowledge assembled for [consideration of] it, so whatever their judgement agreed on, it is truth.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2018 15:20
Nevermind brother. I'm sorry, but I just realised it's all on the deoband website.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 26th April 2018 16:41
sipraomer wrote:
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Man seriously....
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2018 02:14
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