I Have a Purpose

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#646 [Permalink] Posted on 8th September 2018 10:27
Maripat wrote:
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So in a nutshell you mean to say that we should start talking instead of keeping silent like bunnies.

What is your opinion of those Dawah organizations (all sects). Aren't they doing it already.

Will complaining and whining do any good? Or shall I say that what good will complaining and whining do?
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#647 [Permalink] Posted on 8th September 2018 13:00
sipraomer wrote:
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As long as we are weak and on the ‘defensive’ they will neither ‘listen’ to us nor will they try to be accommodative. This is what history tells us and that is how ‘power games’ are played. The weak does not deserve any accommodation from the powerful...the ruthless murder of the last Khalifa of Baghdad (who pleaded for mercy to Mongols) is a testimony to it and the valiant fight back of Jalaluddin khwarzam shah is another kind of testimony to the way honourable people live and die...

I believe 145 endogenously built tanks or fighter jets would convince them more to listen carefully rather than 145 books.

You could tell them about Islam and Muslims if they already did not know it. The fact is they know more than what we think they know about us. Their knowledge of our faith and our culture does not prevent them from launching their ugly designs. Did they not know they are planting the seeds of eternal conflict in Middle East when they created Israel,did they not know Iraq had no chemical weapons when they were putting one false testimony after another in security council ?

We can try and explain our position to ignorants not to those who are hell bent on persecuting us even when they know we are innocents.

Make no mistake sir, IT IS WAR. Expect no kindness and understanding from the enemy as none will be shown. We must work hard on strengthening our own defences. It is bitter, it is testing,it is hard...but it is a bill we have to pay with our blood and our tears,a bill for our past mistakes... After all ,wasn’t Bani Israel ordered,after a grave mistake :

فَاقْتُلُوا أَنفُسَكُم

Why would it be different for us ?


We have been informed in Quran :

“Those who are infidels, whether people of the book or idolaters, do not desire that any good should be sentdown to you from your Lord and Allah chooses for His Mercy, whomsoever He pleases, and Allah is of Exceeding Bounty”(Al.Baqarah 105)

“Many of the people of the Book desired, had you been turned back towards infidelity after faith! Out of sheer envy of their hearts, after it that the truth has become manifest unto them, so leave them and overlook, till Allah brings His command. Undoubtedly Allah is powerful over every thing”.( Baqarah 109)

“And never the Jews and Christians will be pleased with you unless you follow their Din (creed). Say then! 'The guidance of Allah is the only guidance', (O listener who he may be) if you become follower of their desires,after the knowledge that has come to you, then no one will be your protector from Allah and no helper”.(baqarah 120)
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#648 [Permalink] Posted on 9th September 2018 03:57
ALIF wrote:
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What is your opinion about those who did Dawah to Mongols and as a result the cruel rulers reverted and became the protectors of Islam? I agree to your point of view but let's see this side of the coin too. What is your opinion about that?
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#649 [Permalink] Posted on 9th September 2018 08:21
sipraomer wrote:
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It is a genuine question.Let me admit I am not very clear about what single factor to point out that changed Mongoles from the blood thirsty adeverseries to the protectors of the faith,it was dawa alright but probably the events did not occur so quickly and so dramatically as is portrayed. Mongol conversion was the result of a complex combination of social,political and cultural factors. Muslims were militarily defeated but culturally much more superior which made the ultimate Mongol conversion to Islam almost inevitable.It is also incorrect to say that almost all, or even most, Mongol tribes converted. Much the opposite: of the four independent quarters of the empire, only two really converted to Islam - the Golden Horde and the Ilkhanate.

Genghis Khan's grandson Berke converted to Islam due to the efforts of Saif ud-Din Dervish, a dervish from Khorazm, thus Berke became one of the first Mongol rulers to convert.Later, it was the Mamluk ruler Baibars who played an important role in bringing many Golden Horde Mongols to Islam. Baibars developed strong ties with the Mongols of the Golden Horde and took steps for the Golden Horde Mongols to travel to Egypt. The arrival of the Golden Horde Mongols to Egypt resulted in a significant number of Mongols accepting Islam.

A parallel can not be drawn here with the west.The military superiority and invasion of the west is coupled with their cultural invasion and the ‘perceived’ superiority of their civilisation and their values over any other set of values including those of Islam. It is for the first time in the history of Islam that Muslims are not only politically and militarily subjugated but their values are challenged right at their door steps,and that is,when our own house is not in order :(

I may be right if I say : “ Islam has never faced such an unprecedented challenge in its entire history”.

Our intelligentsia has yet to fully grasp the gravity of the situation.One thing is clear,unless we manage to defeat their military might and surpass them in technology,we won’t be able to break the ‘myth’ of their cultural superiority...

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#650 [Permalink] Posted on 9th September 2018 10:37
ALIF wrote:
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Quote:
Our intelligentsia has yet to fully grasp the gravity of the situation.One thing is clear,unless we manage to defeat their military might and surpass them in technology,we won’t be able to break the ‘myth’ of their cultural superiority...


Only those among us who know how to access and make use of the resources of the unseen world (Rehmani Nizam) can defeat them. The thing which make us (or our deen) superior to them is that we have access to the immaterial, unseen resources (if we know how it works and how to make use of it) and they don't have that access.

Jesus AS will be a spiritually rich leader and so will his army and Dajjal will be a materially and satanically rich leader and so will his army.

This is a war between Ushaq and Rationalists
Between faith and faulty reason
Between Spiritual body and Material Body
Between Haq and Batil
Between the unseen true God and the see-able false god (or gods).

Signs of Ar Rahman in the Jihad of Afghanistan


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#651 [Permalink] Posted on 9th September 2018 11:37
sipraomer wrote:
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Agreed !

But even in this ‘material’ world,it is not such an ‘impossible’ task to achieve.
It may take time and a bit of struggle,but nothing comes easy..

If we turn our focus to our colleges and universities (along with our Madrasa and khanaqah) and we have professors like @Maripat to teach them,we can soon start creating ‘Mujahid scientists’ who will be Sufi’s at heart and at the same time will be able to provide us with the decisive edge in technology we so desperately need...

Our brothers who live and study in the west can absorb all the new technologies (like the west once did and copied from Islamic Spain) and then use it to our advantage. Dr Abdul Qadir khan is a good example. He learned uranium enrichment in Holland and trained a few others in Pakistan to create a team which ultimately gave Pakistan its nukes. Now he is retired but the programme is self sustaining and even improving.

All we need to do is to tune our minds to it,learn to come out of our self imposed lethargy and stagnation and rise to the occasion.

It is very much possible to have :
An expert in solid state physics who have solid faith in Allah swt
A master in laser technology who keeps his gaze fixed on akhira
An aeronautical engineer with a burning desire to score big on the day of judgement

Such are the people who will prove ‘perfect soldiers’ for Syedena Mahdi...InshaAllah
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#652 [Permalink] Posted on 9th September 2018 12:17
ALIF wrote:
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For that to happen we have to combine university, madrassah and khanqah. You can't expect Mujahid wali scientists from co education with secular ideologies being promoted and propagated. I am not talking about very rare exceptional cases though.

Is it possible to do so without the establishment of khilafah first?

If yes then what you are saying is possible.

If no then what choice have we left?

Will Mujahid Scientists be the greatest asset of Imam Mahdi or those fearless aulia who will bravely drive their car bombs in the lines of enemy and explode happily saying Allah o Akbar and La ilaha illalahu Muhammadur Rasoolullah?

Can secular universities with co education produce such wali scientists?
On the other hand religious institutions have created some of the finest wali mujahids.

So here, we have to ponder meticulously that what is possible and which route should we choose.

As a side note, I wonder why ulema have failed to create one university in the whole Muslim world since the fall of Ottomon Empire in which both the outer - inner religious sciences and natural - technical sciences are taught. Does the state stop them from doing so? Or is there any other factor behind it?

Update

1. Is it any good for Islam that a secular state has nuclear weapons and long range ballistic missiles? Well trained army and sophisticated intelligence agencies? Does the secular nature of a state help it's strength in favour of Islam?

2. Could Afghans win this war if the majority of pakhtun population didn't support Afghan Taliban? Did Mullah Omar Rh try to create scientists or his major focus (Major Focus) was to build and unite his nation first through political and social reforms? What would be the condition of Afghanistan if it would have been a modern secular state with advanced missile system and strong economy but no Islam?

3. What was the first step (The First Step) of Mao Tze Tung and Lenin for their respective nations? Did they focus on introducing and promoting an alternative and practical ideology which could solve their problems (according to them) around which to gather their party members and upon which they had had built their nations? Or did they focus on acquiring western technology as individuals or small community organizers?

4. Can individual scientists help Imam Mahdi in fighting the kuffar and establishing the khilafah or an organized army of a true Islamic Emirate, even if it is economically poor and technologically weak?

Bottom line:

1. Can Islamic Scientists be created without a true Islamic Emirate?
2. In order to establish an Islamic Emirate, do we need ushaq with clear understanding of the deen or do we need scientists?
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#653 [Permalink] Posted on 9th September 2018 12:53
sipraomer wrote:
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I wish I had one answer for all your questions.

We need everything in good proportions. We need khilafat,we need implementation of sharia,we need good scholars,we need strong armies and robust economies...and we need good universities which can give us good scientists...

We need all of it.
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#654 [Permalink] Posted on 9th September 2018 14:39
ALIF wrote:
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So you mean to say that we need a good overall team so that a good leader leads it and bring us ultimate goodness. In this regards I agree with you.

But the question is how?

What is a practical and detailed plan to do so?

The problem is that what you are suggesting needs at least a century to achieve. Do we have a century?

Even if we have then, will the West allow a modern Islamic state to emerge in which great Islamic scientists thrive. Or will they try to crush it?

Muslims were more liberal and open minded in regards to this than the West today. Muslims allowed and encouraged kuffar to learn science from them which as a result triggered European Renaissance.

Another factor to consider is that the Islamic world was in turmoil, political and social corruption and civil war at the time Europe was being modernized. Muslims lacked unity because of nepotism in the political system which reflected in every area of life. Khilafah in it's true sense was long gone and Monarchy gradually destroyed the spirit of Islamic Society which Rasulullah SAWS had created with so much hard work and sacrifice.

If Khilafah in it's true sense would not have been destroyed and because of it if the Muslims would have been united , then would the Islamic world allow the Western world to unite against it and get powerful. Muslims encouraged science and the World wide Khilafah would have allowed beneficial science and technology today. However, would Muslims allow the kuffar to rise and unite against them to one day enslave them if they had had the ability to stop them?

In similar case the West and kuffar of the whole world are united, scientifically advanced and organized. They know that Muslims want to establish world wide khilafah. They read our works more than we do and nothing is secret. Islam is not a secretive deen. It is open, clear, honest and truthful. Will they allow us to dominate them using the strategy they used to dominate us?

Quote:
Apni Millat Par Qiyas Aqwam-e-Maghrib Se Na Kar
Khas Hai Tarkeeb Mein Qoum-e-Rusool-e-Hashmi

Judge not your nation on the criteria of Western nations
Special in composition is the Hashimi Prophet’s nation
| Iqbal


Muslims can win with only one strategy and that is:

With correct understanding of Shariat and Tareeqat, fight the west until Shariah is established in the whole world or you die as a martyr. If in this course, Muslim Engineers, Scientists and Doctors join your struggle then well and good, if not then you have to do it without them. You may compromise on technological advancements but you can never compromise on the understanding of deen, iman and jihad.

For this to happen, you first have to establish an Islamic central state in Khorasan and then spread the Islamic revolution through unlimited, unstoppable, un-compromisable and un negotiable jihad in the whole world. The army of khorasan will be the one to do it and Imam Mahdi will be the ideal leader to lead it.

They may prevent us from gaining material means but they can't crush our spirit. Their spirit is very weak and relies on artificial never lasting resources. As soon as they find out that their resources can't beat the determination of the mujahideen, they start whining and run away. Technology of the heart is the greatest technology they can't compete with and this is the field where Momineen will always win.
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#655 [Permalink] Posted on 9th September 2018 15:07




Dajjal volume 2 by Mufti Abu Lubaba Shah Mansoor Sahab DB.

He may be wrong on some technical details, but I agree to his overall message.
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#656 [Permalink] Posted on 9th September 2018 15:22
You are right sir..
May Allah SWT have mercy on this Umma and grant us success. Amin
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#657 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 08:22
sipraomer wrote:
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Quote:

So in a nutshell you mean to say that we should start talking instead of keeping silent like bunnies.

Yup.

Quote:
What is your opinion of those Dawah organizations (all sects). Aren't they doing it already.

Dawah is different.
I am talking about communication our point of view to the rest of the world.
Quote:
Will complaining and whining do any good? Or shall I say that what good will complaining and whining do?

It will not solve all of our problems but it will have a wonderful effect.
There is the west - US, Europe and Australia.
Though they think that they are very knowledgeable, most knowledgeable in the world but they have lost touch the reality, part of the reality that concerns Muslim point of view. They think that the modern liberal democratic, the so called progressive view is the universal view about life, world and society. They simply do not know and hence do not accept that Muslims can have a different view about life than theirs. Unless we communicate our view to them they will not know.

Then there are the Zionists.
They are a slightly different ball game.
They know what is our view but they do believe in deceiving the world about the ground reality.
So far they have been getting their way by fooling and controlling the powers that control the world today - the west. In their case it is really pointless to do anything by way of communication - except for showing the west that they are being taken for ride by the Zionists.

Finally there is India. If there is encroachment over the life space of Muslims the world over by the west as well as encroachment upon the life space of the Palestinians by Israel in India too this is true. But there is this additional problem that this encroachment is under progress right now and increasing. This needs a different approach as compared to the approach that we have to adopt to communicate to the west.

Finally there case of the rest of the world. There we have to take individual examples and deal with them separately. For example in China the situation seems to be even worse. Just today I saw a report where we read that Chinese authorities have burned Bible to impress upon Christians that religion will not be tolerated. Situation of Muslims might be little different but we anyway do not get accurate reports from behind the curtain there. In the rest of the world the Muslim populations are not large enough to make news headlines. Perhaps the situation is not as grave as in the west, Palestine and India. Of course the main problem is the military activities of the west in the Muslim world - particularly the Gulf.

So we have to talk about encroachment upon our theological, social, cultural, economic, business, scientific, technological, military, financial, industrial, commercial and political space.

I hope I have set the things in perspective but if you still have questions please do ask.
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#658 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 09:23
ALIF wrote:
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Quote:
As long as we are weak and on the ‘defensive’ they will neither ‘listen’ to us nor will they try to be accommodative. This is what history tells us and that is how ‘power games’ are played. The weak does not deserve any accommodation from the powerful...the ruthless murder of the last Khalifa of Baghdad (who pleaded for mercy to Mongols) is a testimony to it and the valiant fight back of Jalaluddin khwarzam shah is another kind of testimony to the way honourable people live and die...

Very good point.
But this is nevertheless hypothetical.
In fact this line of argument jumps the queue.
It is also against the Sunnah.
It is simply not allowed to guess the reaction of the other party to negotiations and proposals and take aggressive action on the basis of our own fears and assumptions.
In view of these considerations by plan of action is what I have been articulating to the best of my abilities.

Quote:
I believe 145 endogenously built tanks or fighter jets would convince them more to listen carefully rather than 145 books.

While understanding what you are saying I am simply disagreeing with the surmise in this line of argument.

The west and India can not be impervious to the arguments that we can and we should put before them.
Of course I am not so sure of both China and the Zionists but at the moment I am not talking about them.

In case of the western encroachment I can give an example from personal experience that I have shared more than once on this forum. There is a former British comedian called Pat Condell who keeps spewing venom about Islam and Muslims. He is active on You Tube. In one of the videos he said that he is offended by Islam. Then there is a web page that gives transcripts of his videos. In 2013 I took the transcript of above mentioned video and shredded it apart in the style of late Dr Abu Tamim RA. Within few weeks this was picked up by one of the most virulent Islamophobic sites and they simply had no argument in response - at least at that time. Of course they tried to make light of it by calling the views Islamist - and in their cornucopia that is a mighty condemnation. But it is clear that they simply have not been expecting any response from Muslims that can be academic or intellectual in nature.

This is the gap that I have identified and i want and I intend to fill and I request and and I invite brothers and sisters to fill.

Quote:

You could tell them about Islam and Muslims if they already did not know it. The fact is they know more than what we think they know about us. Their knowledge of our faith and our culture does not prevent them from launching their ugly designs. Did they not know they are planting the seeds of eternal conflict in Middle East when they created Israel,did they not know Iraq had no chemical weapons when they were putting one false testimony after another in security council ?

Yet I feel there a lot to be done in the field of educating the west about about our views, feelings, concerns and our stand.

I agree that they have been observing, studying and have been dealing with Muslims not for centuries but one and half a millennia. Yet there are huge gaps in their understanding. This is what was identified as orientalism by Edward Said. He identified that the west has a view about Muslim society that is very sophisticated, well thought out, deeply academic, long held, profound yet so biased that it completely cut-off from reality and it is very abrasive, harmful and offensive for the orient.

What was the western reaction? West in this case meant the US for the Europe was simply cowtowing the US for four decades by that time. The US reaction was to include the book in syllabi of the universities - 900 of them. They also started talking about post-colonialism. The meaning is clear - in summary they were saying that yes earlier we had this wrong attitude towards the Muslim world and you can call that bad attitude orientalism or colonialism but we are a changed people by now and we are no more colonial and our current mind set is not colonial and we by now have transformed ourselves to post-colonial thinking and mindset.

This means two things - that the west is not impervious to what we have to say about our own point of view.

Another thing is that though they included Edward Said's Orientalism in their syllabus and started talking about post-colonial world order but their practical approach and assumptions and attitudes, the most important thing, have remained the same.

Edward Said was a Palestinian Christian. My view is that if we Muslims bring our own point of view to the notice of the western world then this time there will be more effect than mere cosmetic syllabi change and nominal change in the vocabulary. When they come to know that we Muslims are upset, pained and not in agreement with their ways attitude and actions in the Muslim world they can not remain nonchalant.

Now what are the dangers in the enterprise that I am suggesting? Nothing that I can think of. We are talking about academic and intellectual arguments and nothing more. As a precaution and to bring weight to the thesis I would like Muslim academicians the world over to join me. We still need precaution because I know the example of Mahmood Mamdani who wrote the most influential book after Edward Said's book - it is called Good Muslim, Bad Muslim. In it he remarked that it next to impossible to criticize Israel in the US. To be precise my point is not merely the Israeli actions in Palestine but the whole western attitude and actions in the Muslim world.

So in a sense Said had the advantage of being a Christian - though the problems he faced as an Arab, Palestianian, in the US were most debilitating in themselves. The situation for a Muslim talking about the same will be still more sensitive an issue. That is why I am talking about 145 academicians writing. Plus everyone of us who is writing will have to fine tune the tone, tenner and the disposition so as to still communicate the displeasure of the Muslim world not be too assertive so as they, the west, get a chance to pound upon him out of their own agitated nerves. This is a crucial point bevause there nerves are surely agitated because of the actions of the entities like the Islamic State or ISIS. Indeed the fine line that Muslim academicians have to tread is to take all precaution so as to differentiate their case from the case of the militant organizations.

(God how much I have to explain to my own brothers and sisters?)

Quote:
We can try and explain our position to ignorants not to those who are hell bent on persecuting us even when they know we are innocents.

I suppose I have taken care of the nuances relevant for this remark.
Quote:
Make no mistake sir, IT IS WAR. Expect no kindness and understanding from the enemy as none will be shown. We must work hard on strengthening our own defences. It is bitter, it is testing,it is hard...but it is a bill we have to pay with our blood and our tears,a bill for our past mistakes... After all ,wasn’t Bani Israel ordered,after a grave mistake :

Again I do agree with the premise.
They certainly are in war but I am not.
I have positioned myself at such an academic location and vantage point where I am not talking about the war but about reconciliation knowing fully well the window that I am aiming for and hoping for is very small.
Yet I am also hopping that this window will become the overwhelming reality.
Quote:

فَاقْتُلُوا أَنفُسَكُم

Why would it be different for us ?


We have been informed in Quran :

It is not the case that there was always a war between the believers and the unbelievers.
In many cases there were reconciliations after negotiations.
Quote:
“Those who are infidels, whether people of the book or idolaters, do not desire that any good should be sentdown to you from your Lord and Allah chooses for His Mercy, whomsoever He pleases, and Allah is of Exceeding Bounty”(Al.Baqarah 105)

Let us take the example of Justin Trudeau of Canada and Angela Merkel of Germany.
I have seen that both of them have an attitude towards Indian PM Mr Narendra Modi that is very reserved. Why? Because of what is happening and what happened in India.
Thus I do not buy the theory that nothing will happen if we indulge in a final push of communication with the west.


Quote:
“Many of the people of the Book desired, had you been turned back towards infidelity after faith! Out of sheer envy of their hearts, after it that the truth has become manifest unto them, so leave them and overlook, till Allah brings His command. Undoubtedly Allah is powerful over every thing”.( Baqarah 109)

This is about the state of war.
I am talking about the negotiation stage.
That is what I am interested in.
Quote:
“And never the Jews and Christians will be pleased with you unless you follow their Din (creed). Say then! 'The guidance of Allah is the only guidance', (O listener who he may be) if you become follower of their desires,after the knowledge that has come to you, then no one will be your protector from Allah and no helper”.(baqarah 120)

My brother I know this very well and I also agree that this is the situation at the moment. What I want to settle is that we communicate to the west that our point of view is this and this. they simply do not know.

What they think that these Muslims are illiterate and uneducated and unsophisticated and they simply do not know what is going on in the world.

At the academic level their fallacy has to be exposed to them.
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#659 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 09:43

ALIF wrote:
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Mongol conversion was one of the miracles of Allah SWT.  While Rasoolallah SAW's life is full of miracles and we see these examples in the history of Ummah but unlike Rasoolallah SAW's life we can not plan on the basis of these miracles. For us there is no Qudrat, for us there is Qanoon, the law.


Thus in summary our planning has to be very conservative and then we have to act with utmost sincerity and diligence. And then we have to supplicate. Then hope for the best.


That is our option. The only option.
 
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#660 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 09:57
Quote:
Thus in summary our planning has to be very conservative and then we have to act with utmost sincerity and diligence. And then we have to supplicate. Then hope for the best.

That is our option. The only option.


Agreed.

All we need to do is ask Allah for forgiveness and I believe that's all that is required, but we ALL have to do it.

The talk by Noman Ali Khan was excellent and in line with the Hadith - Allah wants to forgive, but we can't be bothered as a nation to ask for forgiveness. A must listen www.muftisays.com/forums/14-peoples-say/12110-i-am-in-tro...

Then Allah will pour for us from the Sky, that which we need!
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