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#781 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2018 03:07
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We can not deal with these until the Maulwis are in the field. By field I do not mean the Khanqah, the Madarsa and the Jama-at. I mean the actual life beyond all these three glorious departments of our glorious Deen.


It is not a criticism against you or other academics. However, I have been wondering this for a while. If maulvis are not ready to leave their old fashioned ways, then why have secularly educated academics who are inclined to deen, not able to learn the deen in traditional manner and then build new institutions of learning where deen and dunia go hand in hand. Why have these intelligent folk failed to do so?

In this forum numerous times, some of our Muslim brothers living in the West have bashed Pakistan, India, Bangladesh for their lack of professionalism in worldly sciences. However, I wonder why have they failed to produce even one noble prize winner despite of the fact that they have access to high quality scientific educational institutions of the kuffar. If Europeans could learn true Islamic enlightenment from medieval Muslims, why Muslims of the west have failed to learn and then do something new and revolutionary (at least at academic level) for the rest of the ummah.

I mean apart from some boxers with dubious character, what have they achieved and what have they produced?
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#782 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2018 05:09
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So the question is how come the Muslims who have got modern education have not done well.

And one of the criterion to measure success is the Nobel Prize.

Good question and I would like to avail the opportunity to answer this because I have not done so earlier.

So here I go.

In science I can cite Ahmed Zuwail of Egypt and Abdus Salam of Pakistan. Of course in case of latter I will be dragged on the burning coal here by my fellow Muslims as I am dragged on the burning coal on the net by my non-Muslim friends because Abdus Salam was hatted in Pakistan for being an Ahmadi. For the sake of my argument I shall ignore the religious angle in this patch of the discussion.

So Muslim countries have produced at least two Nobel Laureates in sciences.

Then I would like to mention the case of Pakistan in the context of the atomic fission and fusion devices.

In the field of theoretical physics, in particular my field of string theory, I can tell you that both Pakistani as well as Iranian people are as advance as the rest of the world.

Iran has done well in every discipline of science. Then there are Egyptians, Turks, Bengali Muslims in many disciplines of science who are visible.

Of course all this presence is no where close to what is there in the west and what the Jewish people have managed to do.

On this point I can not blame the Muslim scientists but the Muslim leadership. Together with the Muslim leadership I must also blame our theological establishment that still has extremely anti-science attitude and serves as a very potent deterrent against Muslims taking to science in a big way.

Since we have not discussed these angles earlier therefore as an appetizer this much of points would be sufficient at this moment.

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#783 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2018 05:16
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However, I wonder why have they failed to produce even one noble prize winner despite of the fact that they have access to high quality scientific educational institutions of the kuffar. If Europeans could learn true Islamic enlightenment from medieval Muslims, why Muslims of the west have failed to learn and then do something new and revolutionary (at least at academic level) for the rest of the ummah

Right you are, brother. Mostly the reason is that the so-called scientific-minded of the Muslim Ummah are busy criticizing the Maulvis rather than trying to be the best in their fields. There is no better example of this than in Pakistan where you've got these so-called intellectuals like Pervez Hoodbhoy busy commenting on the state of the ulema and that how they hinder the progress of the country rather than actually contributing something significant to the intellectual cause of the world.

The reality that I understand is that this world is a playground of the disbelievers. They will get all the success they desire over here and none of it in the hereafter. The believers on the other hand shouldn't even be striving for progress and comfort in this life. The believers should at all times be striving in deen and hope for the best from Allah with regards to the world. Maybe Allah will give them some kind of success here too, maybe not. Success in the world should not be the purpose of existence for the believers.
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#784 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2018 05:25
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Wonderful point there. I never realized that I could comment on Pervez Hoodbhuy not being any where close to a Nobel Prize while he leaves no stone unturned when it comes to taking Muslims for task.

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#785 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2018 05:30
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To be honest,it is not the job of a Molwi to be anything other than a scholar of Din. We can't reasonably expect a Molwi to be a scholar as well as a politician,economy expert,space scientist,general,Engineer or doctor,all in one.That is asking for too much.His role is to guide all the above professionals about the 'usool of Din' applicable to their respective fields of interest...

Speaking purely about our worldly issues,I have been writing repeatedly that we failed as a nation in two fields primarily,and that lead to our current miserable state we find ourselves in : our failure in the fields of EDUCATION and ECONOMY.

Because we could not educate our people about science and technology,social sciences,the importance of our civic duties (even with reference to our Din) we find our societies backward and disorganised.Our creator told us to collect all the deterrence against our enemies and the enemies of Allah,but we failed to do so,as it required mastery over technologies which requires education and skills. Our prophet pbuh told us to keep our environment clean and don't be like yahood who keep their houses and streets dirty,we ignored this advise to the extent that now Yahood must be telling their children not to be like Muslims.We were advised to conserve water resources to the degree that not to misuse it even if a river is flowing in front of our doors,we ignored even to build crucial dams for water conservation....

Is it all the fault of poor Molvi ?

Our economies are in shambles,we have lost our self respect and independence,our policies are dictated by IMF and world bank,not because of poor Molvi but because of our so called modern educated corrupt elite.

How can we challenge the so called superpowers of today when we can't produce even a single 'bullet' on our own.We buy all the modern weapons from the west and intend to fight them with 'their' weapons ? What if they stop supplying the spare parts during the war ?

There is no short cut to nation building.We must start building institutions today and we may reap the fruits somewhere in the future.Emotional slogans will not help.Every thing that Allah grants to an individual or a nation is proportional to their efforts and the use of God gifted brains. Is it not time yet that we start using our brains ?
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#786 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2018 05:43
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1. The examples you cited are from the third world. I was talking about Muslims living in the west. What have they achieved academically?

2. Why have Muslims with modern education not been able to create such institutions in which deeni and worldly sciences are taught together?

3. If Islamic theologians have shied away from science then isn't it true that educated Muslims have shown no interest in traditional learning of Islam? This is their deen also. Why leave all the responsibilities to maulwis? 70 years have passed. Why can't Muslims with modern education create better educational alternatives to old fashioned madrassahs?
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#787 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2018 06:28
The real problem is that we humans as a whole and Muslims specifically have indulged in the terrible habit of blaming others for our own shortcomings. The old generation blames the young generation and the young blame the old. Men blame women and women blame men. Parents blame children and children blame parents. Modern Muslims blame traditionalists and traditionalists blame the modern. Awam blames the mullahs and the mullahs blame the awaam. Kuffar blame the Muslims and Muslims blame the kuffar. People of the West blame the East and East blames the West. However, the only person who is not blamed is the one who daily smiles in the mirror.

All of us are guilty of this in one way or the other. If there are no genuine and true molvies who are fulfilling their duty well then the sin is upon the whole of ummah. Ummah has failed to produce capable molvies. With due respect, you highly educated folks who have been privileged with high IQ and modern education. Oh you Muslim academics! Create such an institution in which education of both of the worlds is taught at a very high standard so that this ummah could compete rest of the world in every field of life.

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#788 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2018 06:43
We were at the peak of knowledge when Ganghiz Khan destroyed us (almost) completely. We didn't lack intellectuals, professionals, education and what not.

The problem was spiritual decadence. Same is the problem today.

As an example look around you at minor level. People with less resources but clear vision and objective become successful one day because of dedication and hard work. While people with more resources lacking sense of direction and conviction become big time failures. Apply this rule to nations and civilizations.

There will be no success until we don't have clarity of thought. Even if we become a super power with vast material resources, if we are not spiritually mature and intellectually clear, we will not be able to establish peace in this world and win the world here after. Spiritual maturity and clarity of thought can only be achieved by learning Quran and Sunnah and implementing it upon us.

The tarteeb of success is not to first gather the resources and material skills. The tarteeb is to first build moral character through all the efforts of deen. After that while we are in the process of khilafah state building we will automatically be motivated to gather resources, learn skills and utilize them to confront the kuffar and establish Islam as a deen.

People with clear sense of direction are better than confused, selfish and directionless doctors, engineers and scientists. The first thing is to produce able men rather than to focus on material resources.
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#789 [Permalink] Posted on 13th December 2018 07:35
Guys you were doing a very good discussion in Imran Khan thread. I have been planning for three days to go through that. Now you have brought similar things here too. I thank you from the depths of heart. I'll try to catch up with you people later on.
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#790 [Permalink] Posted on 16th December 2018 07:02
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#791 [Permalink] Posted on 16th December 2018 07:57
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Sub-han Allah.

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#792 [Permalink] Posted on 16th December 2018 10:05
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السلام علیکم

It was in response to this video, not the one I posted.
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#793 [Permalink] Posted on 16th December 2018 12:30
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Let us try to see things in a larger perspective :

Allah swt told us in Qur'an that the 'real war' rather the 'only' war which is going on in this world,is between Shaytan and Bani Adam.The struggle from the creation of Adam عليه السلام till the end,is based on only one reality : Shaytan,as per his challenge, wants to prove that نعوذ بالله Allah swt made a wrong choice by choosing Adam over him......

All the conflicts we see since then in the world,are in a way the manifestations of this bigger game going on behind the scenes,Shaytan trying to prove man as an unworthy,ungrateful,blood thirsty,corrupt,heedless joker in front of Allah swt,while Allah swt out of his mercy over mankind,sending guidance to man through his prophets and his revelations,informing them about the truth,and then giving them free choice to prove their worth and win Jannat or get trapped by the enemy and go to jahannam along with him....

Please note,the widespread conflicts in the world we se today or have seen in the past are only symptomatic of a bigger and more fundamental war.The real fight is not and has never been between two races (as race is the same-Bani Adam), It is NOT between two or more religions either (as all the prophets gave the same message).The fight is between TAGHOOT and his followers and THE PROPHETS and their believers.Unfortunately Shaytan succeeded in corrupting the true message of previous prophets,and as no new prophet has to come,this Ummah remains the only flag bearer of the message of 'all the prophets of Allah'.

Once we are clear about our 'status',we must also be clear about our 'duties'...

Our duty as the only remaining Muslim Ummah on the surface of earth is to save 'humanity' from hellfire,from the clutches of Shaytan and bring them back to Allah swt...

How to do it ? These days the word Jehad instantly comes to mind.Islam clearly don't like to see kufar in power as any degree of authority over people gives Kuffar big opportunities to misguide them and turn their direction away from akhira to dunya,so yes,that is one way,but again the purpose is not to 'de-throne' one particular nation from the seat of Shaytan to occupy it for ourselves.Once the power of rebels is broken,the fundamental usool of لا اكراه فى الدين comes into place.The purpose of all the efforts is to guide humanity towards their ultimate success,that is Jannat.All other wars in Islam are defensive.

The second option is دعوة و تبليغ, inviting Muslims and non Muslims alike towards Allah and to teach them how to defeat the designs of Shaytan in their individual lives as well as in their collective lives.We can only do our duties if we have genuine love for our fellow human beings and concern for their success in akhira,like the prophets did.If our brother is possessed by a 'Jin' we don't hate him,we try every thing we can to take the Jin out.Our war is against the Jin,not against the unfortunate brother....

Now,by looking at this broader perspective,may be Maulana Tariq jameel sb is only trying to fulfil his duties ?
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#794 [Permalink] Posted on 16th December 2018 12:49
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السلام علیکم

JazakAllah you are right. Our fight is against Taghoot and Maulana Tariq Jameel Sahab is merely fulfilling his duties. We all appreciate him. I myself cannot even reach the dust of his shoes. It is because of his efforts that many many people have changed their unislamic lifestyle and even Hindus have started listening to him mashaAllah. May Allah ta'ala reward him immensely.

He is praising Imran Khan, his wife and the idea of riyasat-e-Madina. I like it and agree with him. However his endorsement of population control campaign was wrong. There is no other way to put it sorry.
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#795 [Permalink] Posted on 16th December 2018 12:57
And by the way Brother, I take your comments seriously and I am trying to change my dogmatic attitude. JazakAllah
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