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#751 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 11:56
JazakAllah khairan for sharing. Wonderful bayan.
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#752 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 12:12
ALIF wrote:
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Wonderful?

To me it was shocking! Maulana Sahab is attending an unislamic symposium and also endorsing it and praising CJP.
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#753 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 12:35
bint e aisha wrote:
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Sorry...

I was more focused on the ayaat of Quran he recited,and how easily Allah swt forgives our sins when we turn to him for forgiveness...

As is said :

تو برائے وصل کردن آمدی
نے برائے فصل کردن آمدی

“You are here to join people to Allah swt NOT to take them away from Allah”

Obviously I missed your point,I apologise. Yes,it was not good of him to attend..
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#754 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 12:36

This tweet sums it up.

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#755 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 13:04
bint e aisha wrote:
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Praising?

I thought he was indirectly critical of the CJP for spending his time trying to fix social issues rather than the numerous cases on his plate that need a resolution.
Plus, he seemed to be criticizing them for their belief regarding the whole population control issue.

It was an opportunity for a religious figure to present his side of things which I think is appreciable. Normally they would have just done it without consulting or bothering to listen to what Islam says about the issue and carried on with their usual anti-life propaganda.
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#756 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 13:09
bint e aisha wrote:
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We had a man called Sanjay Gandhi in India who died flying a small plane on June 23, 1980. He was Indira Gandhi's younger son. Really a spoiled brat. His mother was the Prime Minister of India and he misused her position to the hilt. During emergency apparently six million people were sterilized. Muslims were particularly targeted.

That was a phase sister and it is gone.

What is happening in that function and the programme is much less in proportions.

In fact it is alright that a Maulana is participating in a programme that is based on some modern understanding of society - however faulty. Maulwis are simply terrified of modern thought, including science.

Let me assure you that once this process of modernization sets in Pakistan then people will be working in the opposite direction - how to sustain population and not control it.

So relax.

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#757 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 13:19
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however faulty. Maulwis are simply terrified of modern thought, including science.

Maulwis are only terrified of modern thought that contradicts the Shariah. As they should be because it is an invitation to the wrath of Allah.
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#758 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 13:49
fod1083 wrote:
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Quote:
Praising?

I thought he was indirectly critical of the CJP for spending his time trying to fix social issues rather than the numerous cases on his plate that need a resolution.


I listened to it again. He is saying:

یہ سارے فاضل جج صاحبان، یہ بہت بڑی ہمارے پاس اللہ کی نعمت ہیں. ان کے ذمے جو کام نہیں وہ بھی کرتے رہتے ہیں.،سبحان اللہ.. سلام ہے آپ کو

If this is not praise then what is?

Quote:
Plus, he seemed to be criticizing them for their belief regarding the whole population control issue.

No brother, from what I've understood he is not criticizing it. In fact he has shown his approval by narrating some village stories.

Quote:
It was an opportunity for a religious figure to present his side of things which I think is appreciable.

He should have read this ayah, he didn't.

وَلَا تَقۡتُلُوٓاْ أَوۡلَـٰدَكُمۡ خَشۡيَةَ إِمۡلَـٰقٍ۬‌ۖ نَّحۡنُ نَرۡزُقُهُمۡ وَإِيَّاكُمۡ‌ۚ إِنَّ قَتۡلَهُمۡ ڪَانَ خِطۡـًٔ۬ا كَبِيرً۬ا

"And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin."

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Normally they would have just done it without consulting or bothering to listen to what Islam says about the issue and carried on with their usual anti-life propaganda.


They didn't invite Maulana Tariq Jameel Sahab to consult him or to learn Islam, but just to promote this campaign.


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#759 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 13:54
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It was painful for me to listen to him. I don't understand how it is good just to participate in such so called modern programs?
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#760 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 14:38
bint e aisha wrote:
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You are worried sister that Maulana has participated in a Haraam function, function that was organized on the issue of population control.

My problem is different. Life goes on and we Muslims have not found the requisite response to the problems of life that have arisen due to modernity.

How to deal with these modern developments like science, technology and modern social thought is a big problem for us.

Problem is not that we can not compete with the west - the leaders of these developments. We can. Though on that front also a lot has still to be done. Or most of it has to be done but being from the science background I am not worried about that part. I can deal with that.

My problem is what should be our attitude towards these new, modern and so called progressive developments. How much of these we should embrace, accommodate and accept and how much we should reject. On my Entertainment thread I have raised the very same questions regarding the field of entertainment.

We can not deal with these until the Maulwis are in the field. By field I do not mean the Khanqah, the Madarsa and the Jama-at. I mean the actual life beyond all these three glorious departments of our glorious Deen.

By now we are out of the British clutches for seventy years and we have not dealt with modern issues effectively. To deal with these we have to go to the site where these issues are playing out. That is what Maulana Tariq Jamil did. I endorse it. I endorse his act of going there. My Husn-ad-Dhunn is that Imran Khan is no western stooge not a sell out and not an infidel in any case.

Problem is with us who are caught in our corner away from real problems of life. I am talking about those of us who have hidden ourselves in Khanqah, Madarsa or the Jama-at. Away from the bad weather of real life. Leaving the hapless Muslim to brave the world as it is.

That is escape my sister.

Just take one problem of gynecology. What should we Muslims do about it? Do we want to push our women before males for consulting on these problems? Let us talk about India - do we want to push our women before Hindu male physicians for consultations on these issues? I assure you that the Maulwi has not given sufficient thought to this issue.

Let me tell you about a more simple problem. Beauty parlour. You know how they have solved the problem of male presence? Well they do not allow the husband or the male with the woman visiting the parlour inside the parlour. But the beautician is many times male! I am not making it up.

The Maulwi simply does not know it. The Maulwi will complain that how will he know it if I do not tell him! Give me a break Maulwi Sahab. If you are not well informed then let me inform you that you have failed miserably in your duty.

Just today I reported the news of the sad demise of Maulana Asrarul Haq Qasmi who was Member of Indian parliament from the Kishanpur constituency in Bihar. He used to write articles on political problems of Muslims in India. You know how deep, profound and robust these articles were? Let me tel you - these were all very facile, shallow and cursory. I am sorry to record this.

Yet I wrote both on Facebook and here that I respected him most. Why? Because he was taking up those issues that the Maulwi usually does not touch even with a barge pole. So when Maulana Tariq Jamil is there in the above programme then it is a good news. He will end up saying so many wrong things but I shall still take that a good beginning because the Maulwi has arrived at the venue that he has been avoiding so far.

When the Maulwi has overcome his escapism, when he has overcome his fears of the modern society, when he has got the courage to look at the problems of life today then it is a moment for big celebration.

Thus when Pir Zulfiqar Sahab was being criticized for his failings on Sulook for women I was very heart broken. I knew Pir Sahab had got it wrong but I was more concerned that our approach towards him was wrong too.

Have I explained better now?

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#761 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 15:24
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A Moulvi can only do one out of two things,convey the message in a nice way or be harsh and fight. He can not have any other possible mechanism to influence policies of government.If the Moulvi is wise and wants to avoid Fitna or wants to avoid a 'bigger' fitna compared to a smaller fitna at the moment,he would undoubtedly try to convey the message in a nice way first.....

Moulana started his speech by reciting ayaat about the 'bigger scheme of things' i.e "the creation of universe" and established that Rabb (رب) of all the existing things,all the worlds,is Allah swt , politely but forcefully conveying the message that government don't have to worry too much about it, then he carried on to describe how Allah creates a child,fascilitates the process of his birth,and then how Allah provides him with 'food' in the form of milk from his mother while he is too weak even to find food for himself,again in a very nice way guiding the policy makers that Allah is رب العالمین as well as احسن الخالقین, and that Allah swt is enough to take care of his creation...

As you already know,Rabb means : Master,sustainer,nourisher but along with that it carries the meaning of of regulating, completing, accomplishing, cherishing,and bringing to maturity by evolution from the earliest state to that of the highest perfection.

The choice of selecting those ayaat out of the whole Qur'an was NOT a chance occurrence,it was based on wisdom,which has unfortunately become so uncommon amongst our Uluma that we find it strange.

I believe Moulana db has done a nice job,the message has been delivered,somebody had to do it,somebody had to be present in the function...that he did not carry a gun in his hand does not mean he did not do his duty :)
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#762 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 15:45
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I listened to it again. He is saying:

یہ سارے فاضل جج صاحبان، یہ بہت بڑی ہمارے پاس اللہ کی نعمت ہیں. ان کے ذمے جو کام نہیں وہ بھی کرتے رہتے ہیں.،سبحان اللہ.. سلام ہے آپ کو

If this is not praise then what is?

Don't you think he is kind of mocking the CJP? Achay alfaaz main bay izzat karna? After all, the CJP has been criticized for involving himself in matters which are not his responsibility. Openly criticizing someone has never been Maulana's style, we've seen that. Especially not in such a hostile environment where everyone thinks Saqib Nisar is Allah's gift to mankind.

As for his story, the point being made in it was that the provision for children is Allah's responsibility and he will take care of it. We don't need to overthink it too much.

I agree that he could have been more negatory about the government's stance in the speech which would have given a more firm impression of Islam being against what was being proposed but I guess Maulana has always adopted a different style to other ulema. I do understand that many of the ulema are critical towards him about his attendance in this symposium but many others do appreciate and understand the stance he took.
As for whether people take it as an endorsement of the government's stance, when has that ever not been the case with Maulana Tariq Jameel? He goes to talk to the Shias and the people take it as endorsement of Shias, he goes to Barelvis and people take it as endorsement of them, etc.

Let's see what happens in a few days. We might even get a statement from him explaining his stance more clearly.
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#763 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 15:47
Maripat wrote:
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Quote:
You are worried sister that Maulana has participated in a Haraam function, function that was organized on the issue of population control.


No. I'm upset because he did not explain the Islamic ruling. He should have told them their campaign is haram, instead he has indirectly endorsed this campaign.

Only those Ulama should be visiting rulers who have the courage to speak the truth. Otherwise it is frowned upon in Islam.

Quote:
By now we are out of the British clutches for seventy years and we have not dealt with modern issues effectively. To deal with these we have to go to the site where these issues are playing out. That is what Maulana Tariq Jamil did. I endorse it. I endorse his act of going there. My Husn-ad-Dhunn is that Imran Khan is no western stooge not a sell out and not an infidel in any case. 


I agree. Imran Khan is a good Muslim but not perfect. Just like all of us he also makes mistakes. Maulana should have told him the actual ruling of this campaign.


Quote:
Just take one problem of gynecology. What should we Muslims do about it? Do we want to push our women before males for consulting on these problems? Let us talk about India - do we want to push our women before Hindu male physicians for consultations on these issues? I assure you that the Maulwi has not given sufficient thought to this issue. 


I strongly agree. I hate it when religious people criticize girls becoming doctors. I myself encountered one such tableeghi woman when I was in 10th grade. When I told her I want to become a doctor, she started explaining me that it is haram and I would have to interact with male teachers, and that she knew a girl in medical college who did not even know the basic fardh masail of Islam. I was shaking my head :/

Quote:
Let me tell you about a more simple problem. Beauty parlour. You know how they have solved the problem of male presence? Well they do not allow the husband or the male with the woman visiting the parlour inside the parlour. But the beautician is many times male! I am not making it up. 


Yes, I know about this.


Quote:
Have I explained better now?


Yes I understand your perspective and agree with the other things you have mentioned. I'm not against Ulama visiting these programs; I'm just saying that if they're visiting they should tell them the exact ruling. I do not understand this tableeghi attitude of fadhail, fadhail and fadhail. They have unfortunately left the duty of نهي عن المنكر.
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#764 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 16:01
The point that you have to understand here is that the Tableeghis attitude is that we have to get them to listen first and then slowly and gradually we'll get them to a state where we will give them dire version of events too. These secular minded people, they immediately disregard you if you start talking to them in a negatory manner. They are scared of their own misdeeds and scared of what ulema might tell them will happen to them, so they tend to avoid the ulema altogether. The Tableeghis emphasize on fazail because they want to at least get them to listen to something about deen. These people respond better when they are told how they will be rewarded. There will always be three kinds of worshippers. Ones who worship out of fear, ones who do it for reward and ones who do it to please Allah. These people are the second kind. They need to be treated accordingly.

The only reason Maulana Tariq Jameel is even able to speak to them at such events is because they consider him one of those kinds of ulema who will tell them about those rewards. The other ulema, who you think could have told them the truth better, they would never even give them the time of the day. So for now, the ulema need to take what they can get.
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#765 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2018 17:15
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ALIF at 17:35 wrote:
Yes,it was not good of him to attend..


ALIF at 20:24 wrote:
I believe Moulana db has done a nice job,the message has been delivered,somebody had to do it,somebody had to be present in the function...


Have you taken a U-turn lol.
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