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#1831 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 02:48
Quote:
Original Fatwa of about the Kuf'r of Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) [dated around October 2013]:

Question

I think you heard about Maulana Tariq Jameel of the Tabligh Jamaat. He went to a Shiah Masjid and prayed there, ate food with them and took pictures with them. Then he invited them to the Tabligh Ijtima and some came. He says that they are not kaafir. He also says some negative things about the Sahaabah who were not of the Ahl-e-Bait. My Shaikhul Hadith (in Pakistan) is ready to issue the fatwa of kufr on Maulana Tariq Jameel. Please comment.

Answer

We do not know who this chap Tariq Jameel is. However, we have been hearing lately of his vile and haraam antics. If what you have attributed to this character is correct, then undoubtedly, he is a bedfellow of the kuffaar Shiahs. When your Shaikhul Hadith issues the necessary Fatwa, do forward a copy to us.

The Majlis, Vol 22 No 3, pg. 3


This reply has not been addressed to any particular person.


(Disclaimer: I'm a fan of Maulana Tariq Jameel sahib D. B. and I also don't like harsh style of Moulana A. S. Desai sahib D. B. I'm trying to see this "fatwa" from neutral perspective.)

We all are aware of the fact that a Mufti issues fatwa or opines on the basis of question asked.

This question contains following information, which I'm breaking into parts to understand Moulana A. S. Desai sahib's stance:

1. A man called Maulana Tariq Jameel, associated with the effort of Tableegh went to Shi'ite's Masjid.

Well, it doesn't seem Haraam.

2. Prayed there.

What? Did he pray with Jamaat behind Shi'ite Imam? Or did he himself lead Salah? Or prayed with his Sunni companions?

3. Ate food with them.

It's okay.

4. Took picture with them.

This is very problematic.

5. Invited them to the Tableegh Ijtima.

This is good and praiseworthy to call them towards Sunnah.

6. He says they are not Kaafir.

Whhhhaaaat???!!!! IF this is really his statement, then it's a great misdeed.

7. He also says some negative things about the Sahaabah who were not of the Ahl-e-Bait.

Negative things about the Sahabah Radiallaahu 'Anhum????!!!! IF this is true then he is definitely deviant.

8. The questioner's shaykh/teacher ("My Shaikhul Hadith (in Pakistan)") is ready to issue the fatwa of kufr on Maulana Tariq Jameel.

Hmm.....

9. He requested to "comment".

The questioner isn't asking for "fatwa". He wants a "comment".

Comment of Moulana A. S. Desai sahib D. B.:

1. We do not know who this chap Tariq Jameel is.

This clearly indicates he has not heard about him yet. As many serious accusations have been associated to this unknown person, he deserves no honorary title like "Maulana". Plus we know that Moulana A. S. Desai sahib D. B. is a senior person. Therefore calling a person (who has reportedly done some severely harmful activities) "chap" isn't a big deal.

2. However, we have been hearing lately of his vile and haraam antics.

He didn't know this person "Tariq Jameel" and have recently come across such Haraam activities attributed to this person.

3. If what you have attributed to this character is correct, then undoubtedly, he is a bedfellow of the kuffaar Shiahs.

He is saying "IF".

4. When your Shaikhul Hadith issues the necessary Fatwa, do forward a copy to us.

He is searching for substantial proofs and fatwa himself. Otherwise he wouldn't express interest to get a copy of Shaykhul Hadith sahib's fatwa.

What I've understood: The questioner might be a mischievous person who is trying to get fatwa from Deobandi prominent 'Ulama by presenting partial and blurry statements from lectures/opinions of Moulana Tariq Jameel sahib D. B. to engage one against another. Barelwis carried out numerous such plots against Deobandi 'Ulama. We should be aware of them.
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#1832 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 05:22
Sorry for not being off-topic in the /random thread.

In Defense of Muadh Bhai (Hafizahu-llaah)

Some users seem to think that Muadh Bhai has blind hatred towards Maulana A.S. Desai (Hafizahu-llaah). I request them to read this thread, which is quite interesting, but I haven't finished it yet.

I also share some of the concerns that he has, which other senior South African `Ulamaa' should take care of. Nonetheless, I disagree with Muadh Bhai's approach and style of criticizing Maulana A.S. Desai publicly (Hafizahuma-llaah).
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#1833 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 05:55
samah wrote:
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JazaakAllah for the link to the thread. Started reading it, brilliant intro!

Its threads like these that make me wonder why Hadhrat Muadh was banned from SF...


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#1834 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 10:43
Jinn wrote:
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Brother, how to download complete book as a single file? He is a superb writer. Am recently reading his latest book "Return of a King". May Allaah سبحانه وتعالى grant him hidayah. Ameen.
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#1835 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 11:04
Black Turban wrote:
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I'll check for you brother once I get on a laptop.
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#1836 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 11:17
Black Turban wrote:
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salaam

i am NOT a fan of moulana tariq jameel. but to issue such a fatwa based on hearsay is ABSOLUTELY irresponsible and not befitting of a mufti. would such a mufti who passes such fatwas without investigation be allowed to carry on under a khalifa? i highly doubt it. a person who wishes to create mischief could run with this fatwa and start proclaiming to everyone that a senior deobandi mufti has declared moulana tariq jameel a kafir.

i am nothing in front of moulana desai. but moulana needs to understand his audience and how his fatwas/writings can be used negatively in detriment to the muslims/islam.
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#1837 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 11:32
xs11ax wrote:
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Wa 'alaykumus salaam

I do agree with you on this point. Moulana saheb becomes excited quickly and uses extremely harsh words without proper investigation. I don't agree with this approach.

However, I just wanted to think from Moulana saheb's point of view. If I would hear Moulana XYZ called Shi'ites as good Muslims and certain Sahaba were wrong etc, I would be furious as well.
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#1838 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 12:50
Black Turban wrote:
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personal attitudes and emotions should not come into play when issuing fatwas. a fatwa should be issued solely on the guidelines of the quran and sunnah. if a mufti is not capable of keeping his own emotions out of a fatwa, then maybe he should not be issuing fatwas.
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#1839 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 12:57
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

I appreciate this is the random thread, but we also have threads with related topics, please post accordingly under the related threads.

Please kindly continue in the space given to brothers in the allocated section.

جزاك الله خيرا
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#1840 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 13:16

samah wrote:
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Arslan. wrote:
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Brother,

The answers to your questions are pretty simple.

Allah (SWT) and his Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) have commanded us to encourage and forbid evil. There is NOT a single verse or Hadeeth which says that Ulamah and Mashaykh have been excluded from this list. There is NOTHING in the Madhab at all which says that if you see an Alim or a Shaykh doing something which you perceive to be incorrect or upon an error (and after you duly make Mushwarah with other Ulamah) to highlight the matter.

I have done my homework with Shaykh (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) and love, respect and honour Hazrat. I have found a few things problematic and I have done Mushwarah with other (South Africans) and I have received 2 types of responses:

  1. Direct disagreement: Ones who have confirmed that some of his Fatwaas are incorrect
  2. Indirect disagreement:  Ones who won't confirm it but say that Hazrat (HA) is a Senior Alim and has the right to his opinion.

A large number of South African agree with his Taqwa and seniority but disagree with his abuse. I have mentioned the word “abuse” and not “harshness” because the way he words something it isn’t harsh it’s downright “abusive”!

Respect isn’t solely the right of an Alim (although applied to higher level) but equally applicable to every single Muslim (regardless or rank, stature, background, gender, qualification etc). In other words it is HARAM for me to say that Dr Umar123, Dr76 “prostitute” their profession just because they are not Ulamah they don’t deserve this sort of language or type of insinuation, at all.

You can disagree with vaccines, Tableegh, Tassawuff, Radios but NOBODY has any right to label an Alim "Reverend" at all! Just because someone is an Alim it still DOES NOT give them that right.

Human dignity, respect and honour is the right of everyone.

The reason I upp’ed the ante on users like Brroklyn(...) is to make them feel what players like Hashim Amla who are just as practising may feel like when he reads about his “prostituting” ...

The problem with you brothers is that you are UNABLE to apply standards of Islam due to some wrong understanding of Shariah in your minds.

If I called either of your perfectly Halal professions “prostituting”  or called your father “Reverend” you will be up in arms and angry as hell but for some reason YOU TOLERATE that from a “Mufti” and I don’t know why?

Both of you are decent brothers from decent Mothers and Fathers and you know that this sort of language is just unacceptable even to a PROSTITUE let alone someone who is an Alim of Islam and YET you turn away from these facts.

This is not harshness, this is UNISLAMIC.

Now let’s discuss my qualifications! If you have this idea in your brains that ONLY a graduate of a darul-uloom can discuss the shortcomings (perceived or actual) of another graduate of a darul-uloom then you are DEAD WRONG on many grounds, namely:

  1. You don't have a shred of evidence from Qur'aan, Sunnah or Madhab to back your claims. Darul-uloom Deoband was established in 1866 so your argument falls flat on his face the minute we discuss anything historical
  2. If I reveal my qualifications I will be labelled as a "show off" so I can't win either way

What you need to understand is what I called for, originally.

I said that Shaykh (Mufti) A.S.Desai (HA) needs to be REFUTED by Ulamah (of South Africa) you took me to task for the words and ignored the message.

Lastly (and both of you are intelligent enough to get this and whether you acknowledge it or not is a different matter) the refutation is on two primary issues:

  1. Qiblah Direction (Not an issue of Fiqh)
  2. Vaccinations (Not an issue of Fiqh)

Shaykh (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) is a laymen in both, otherwise tell me his qualification in the fields in which he has ventured to give an opinion.

Being an Alim DOES NOT make you an expert in Cardiovascular Surgery!

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#1841 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 14:07
Brother muadh, as requested of the brothers on this thread, please also continue this topic in the space provided, and off the main forum.

جزاك الله خيرا
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#1842 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 16:52

Hilarious Arabic Joke:

My Arabic teacher (Shaykh (Dr) Ali Adam Alwi (HA) said that during Saudia he always had 2 huge problems and he was sick of it:

  1. Telling people that he is NOT a Shia
  2. Speaking Arabic because Saudia Arabia is a land of bad Arabic

Shaykh (Dr) Ali Adam Alwi (HA) told us in class that one day during his PhD in classical Arabic poetry he went to a Coffee shop and sat down to do his work. Waiter came so he said to the waiter (without looking)

انا اريد الكوب القهوه الواحدة, من فضلك!

I wish for a single cup of coffee, please.

The waiter remained unmoved! A Saudi came to his table and asked, "Are you an Arabic student?"

Shaykh (HA) looked up and said, "Yes I am doing PhD in classical Arabic poetry" the Saudi replied nobody understands this sort of Arabic in Saudia this is how you ask for a coffee in Saudia. He then turned to the waiter and said:

Oaay! Coffee! Jaldi...Jaldi...

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#1843 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 16:57
xs11ax wrote:
personal attitudes and emotions should not come into play when issuing fatwas. a fatwa should be issued solely on the guidelines of the quran and sunnah. if a mufti is not capable of keeping his own emotions out of a fatwa, then maybe he should not be issuing fatwas.[/quote]

I do agree with this post also.

Anyway, the question and answer which I've discussed, don't look like clear-cut fatwa. The questioner requested Moulana sahab to "comment".

Quote:
Question

..........Please comment.


In the answer Maulana sahab asked the questioner to forward him the fatwa issued by an anonymous Shaykhul Hadith.

[quote]Answer

..........When your Shaikhul Hadith issues the necessary Fatwa, do forward a copy to us.
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#1844 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 17:21
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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One incident that I heard from a lecture.
A scholar went to Egypt. While getting in a taxi he spoke to the Egyptian taxi driver classical arabic, the driver replied, 'Sadaqallahul Adheem', thinking its Quran.
lol.
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#1845 [Permalink] Posted on 17th April 2014 18:26
Russia's recent annexation seems to be an attempt of colonialism.
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