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Is Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel Shia Lover or Kaafir?

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2014 19:50
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Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

Part 1 about Shias NOT being Kaafir:

This is a detailed thread with analysis and factual data regarding the controversy surrounding Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) of Tableeghi Jamaat.

We neither say that any human (including us) is perfect nor do we claim that this analysis is perfect and people have the right to disagree. However we do request that people disagree with respect, dignity and above all fairness and justice and in the light of evidence.

Mistake:

Years ago (around 2008/2009) Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) gave a Bayan in which he claimed a number of things which he claimed to have read from the Fatwaas of our Akabir:

  1. If someone calls our (Deobandi) Akabir Kaafir then this person doesn't automatically become a Kaafir
  2. If someone calls a Sahabi a Kaafir then this person doesn't automatically become a Kaafir
  3. If someone calls all the Sahaba Kaafir then this person doesn't automatically become a Kaafir

This speech is available far and wide and here is the exact exercpt for you to listen to:

Halalified YT Audio

This speech was circulated far and wide in Pakistan and some of the Ulama became irate on this issue. The Ulama took action. 

There is little doubt that in the enthusiasm of delivering a speech Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) made a mistake!

Why?

Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) made this mistake because he relied on earlier scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah who DID NOT entirely considered all of Shia Kaafirs.

Action of Ulama (First): Who Initiated the correction and retraction?

The most stringent group of Deobandees is Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan which is vehemently Anti-Shia and considers all Shias as Kaafir. Shaykh (Maulana) Ali Sher Haideri (RA) called Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) into his Madrasah and after deliberation between the two Ulama Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) admitted his error and retracted his mistake.

Shaykh (Maulana) Ali Sher Haideri (RA) showed (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA)  the commentary of Mishkaat by Mullah Ali Qari (RA) himself of Persian/Afghan descent who states that today’s (i.e. of his time) Shias are not the same of the earlier times.

(Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) accpted this error in the Darul-uloom, retracted and issued a correct statement which was endorsed by Shaykh (Maulana) Ali Sher Haideri (RA) and the issue was closed.

The exact excerpt of his retraction can be heard here where Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) talks about the error, reason and the correction. The opinion of Shaykh (Mulla) Ali Qari (RA) that the Rafidhah of our times are exempt from the (earlier) Fatwaas of mere heresy was pointed out in مرقاة المفاتيح شرح مشكاة المصابيح

قلت : وهذا في غير حق الرافضة الخارجة في زماننا ، فإنهم يعتقدون كفر أكثر الصحابة ، فضلا عن سائر أهل السنة والجماعة ، فهم كفرة بالإجماع بلا نزاع .

Categorical statements of Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) in this Bayan:

  1. If someone calls Sayyidina Abu-Bakr (RA) Kaafir how can this wretched (despicable) individual be Muslim?
  2. If someone calls Sayyidina Umar (RA) Kaafir how can this wretched (despicable) individual be Muslim?
  3. And two Kaafirs are sleeping next to the Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)? What a strange concept!
  4. So Takfeer of Sahaba (RA) is DESTRUCTION  of Islamic Shariat
  5. So like these people consider majority of Sahaba (RA) Kaafir (except a few ) then this matter isالكفر البواح   meaning OPEN KUF'R this is NOT الكفر مستور meaning hidden Kuf'r but it is isالكفر البواح   meaning OPEN KUF'R
  6. I had not come across this statement and this was shown to me by Shaykh (Maulana) Ali Sher Haideri (RA) so I am admitting in front of you that when you benefit from someone then acknowledge the (error)
  7. Even highlighting errors of the Sahaba my Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is saying اللَّهَ اللَّهَ فِي أَصْحَابِي ، لَا تَتَّخِذُوهُمْ غَرَضًا بَعْدِي so this is highlighting errors so where is Takfeer of Sahaba (RA)...ALLAHU AKBAR just pointing out their error has a warning! Shaykh (Maulana) Ali Sher Haideri (RA) is wiping his tears at this point!
  8. So purpose of Tableegh is to bring a person closer to you with soft words to bring them into the environment and to rectify. Ofcourse the responsibility of Ulama is to ensure that Haqq stands manifest from error. Ulama's responsibility is to ensure that the line between Haqq and Baatil is clear
  9. Some cuttings of my talks have been spread and I wasn't aware of the errors as I thought that these were correct but then it was pointed out to me that I was wrong so I am wrong! The position of Sahabah (RA) has been established by my Allah (SWT). Their errors have been forgiven by by my Allah (SWT). Ja'rh on them is Haram. Criticism on them is Haram and the one does their Takfeer is KAAFIR!
  10. Our mother (Aisha RA) she is our mother whom Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) had his noble head in her lap and Qur’aan used to be revealed so if someone calls her a Kaafir then this wretched (despicable) person! If there was something beyond Kuf’r then he has gone there. Even slander on her is dispicable!
  11. I loved history ever since college and I read history in Islam too and the best is Imam Ibn Katheer (RA)'s البداية والنهاية‎ but even it has some objectionable matters and I discussed with my teacher Shaykh (Maulana) Jamshaid (HA) for one week but he made one statement and the dirt (in my heart) was washed off and he said, "The criteria for judging the Sahabah (RA) is not البداية والنهاية because their life is Deen and to the criteria to judge their lives is Qur'aan and Hadeeth"

Action of Ulama (Second):

The second group of Ulama which were vocal about Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) was Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan (HA) who is one of the Senior Deobandi Mashaykh of Pakistan.

Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) visited Darul-uloom Ahsanul-uloom (Karachi) around July 2012 and requested Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan (HA) to speak to him and all the matters were clarified. After the bayan Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan (HA) states that he hasn't been affected by a Bayan in such way for 40 years! He also clarifies (and laughs) that the Shia controversy was communicated to him by Tableeghees in a way which affected him!

Halalified YT Audio

The dragging of Darul-uloom Ahsanul-uloom (Karachi) into this controversy is blatantly false and disingenuous!

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2014 20:18
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Part 2 Visiting Shia place of worship in Gilgit:

Background:

Gilgit is a remote mountainous region of Pakistan with roughly 300,000 inhabitants. The Muslims of this area roughly 50% Shia.

Price Kareem Aga Khan (Kaafir) has been pouring money into this disadvantaged and undeveloped area to spread Shia (Ismaili) religion and during the last 10 years this area has been plagued with violence because the Pakistani Government appointees are mostly Shia and turn a blind eye to wanton violence. Newspapers and Islamic publications have raised the point of violence in this (strategic) valley again and again and again.

Nothing has been done.

Visit to the Shia centre and talk:

Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) visited this violence hit area and went to Sunni and Shia places of worship and he gave this 8 minute Bayan at the Shia centre:

Halalified YT Audio

Please listen to complete 8 minutes and clearly state what he said is wrong and against Shariah?

Did Maulana (HA) pray behind Shias or in a Shia centre?

NOBODY has reported that Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) either prayed BEHIND or IN a Shia centre, what has been reported that Shia and Sunnes prayed behind him (i.e. he led the Salah).

    Lets take the worst case scenaio and say that he led a Salah in a Shia temple, does that make him a Kaafir or a deviant?

Did Maulana (HA) have pictures taken?

His trip was widely covered by Media and pictures were taken and plastered all over the media as a trip of solidarity to mend Shia/Sunni relations and to arrest the violence. 

Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) goes around the world and his pictures are taken. He doesn't have a personal photographer but because of him being who he is pictures are taken!

A large number of Ulama are of the opinion that pictures are permissable but in this case Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) didn't pose specifically with Shias his pictures are all over the media anyways! There is a video of him AT A DARUL-ULOOM where he retracted his opinion!

Did Maulana (HA) eat with the Shias?

Probably!

But what did he eat? Did he have tea and Biscuits or did he enjoy Kebabs made from Shia slaughtered Sheep?

Conclusion?

Give it a rest, people...

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2014 21:12
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2014 21:16
(salam)

Masha Allah colonel saheb.. May Allah سبحانه وتعالى run the streams of Hidaya in ur progeny till the day of judgment and May they be the standard bearers of Islam.. Ameen..

Indeed words from a fair and balanced perspective..

If u ask me colonel saheb.. i have been listening to his bayanat since 1987/ 88.. and have indeed benefited very much from him like the millions around the globe.. May Allah سبحانه وتعالى keep Hazrat Maulana Tariq Jameel saheb db safe from evil eyes.. Ameen..

I had taken the issue of Ikhtilaf of Hazrat Mufti Zarwali khan sahab db with Hazrat Maulana Tariq Jameel sahab db to Hazrat Maulana Farooq sahab Makki db.. Zimmedar at Makkah Mu'azzamah. He replied saying Hazrat Mufti Zar wali khan sahab db is an old worker of Tableegh and he should refrain himself from such public remarks.. also that Hazrat Maulana Tariq Jameel sahab db should exercise caution while quoting dhaeef Hadeeth..




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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2014 21:39

@guest

May Allah (SWT) reward you for your worry about my image and give you the best of success in this world and the next (Ameen). But if you have something specific to add to the issue please feel free to do so with evidence for everyone to judge for themselves otherwise I will be asking Shaykh (Maulana) Yasin Saheb (HA) to remove the slander from his site UNLESS categorical proof is presented on the contrary.


 

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2014 21:41
dr76 wrote:
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Dr Saheb (HA),

When did this conversation take place before of after July 2012? Because Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan Saheb (HA) opinion post July 2012 should be quoted in the matter which is on record.

Halalified YT Audio


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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2014 21:54
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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No.. my conversation took place before 2012.. this bayan indeed clears the air.. Masha Allah.. Jazakallah khair..

I remember reading a Book on his bayanat and in the preface the author ( i dont remember his name) writes that someone played a bayan of Hazrat Maulana Tariq Jameel saheb db to Mufakkir e Islam Hazrat Maulana Syed Abul Hasan Ali sahab Nadwi (rah) and Maulana praising his oratory skills said that this person seems like Hazrat Hasan Basri (rah) of today..
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 7th June 2014 23:45
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Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

Part 3 Maulana Tariq Jameel (HA) describing his mistake in his own words:

The unfortunate mistake (part 1) occurred near Peshawar so Maulana (HA) said that first of all the people of Peshawar didn’t leave him (smiling) until he got the idea that he had made the mistake.

He recalls the whole incident all over again in this Bayan and this is again on an Anti-Shia Deobandi site for anyone to listen to. The last 3 minutes of the Bayan are particularly heart wrenching!

Maulana (HA) says that dishonesty is of two kinds

  1. Dishonesty with Allah (SWT)
  2. Dishonesty with people

Maulana (HA) says that I am a weak human and I have committed many dishonesties of Allah (SWT) and until I die I cannot fulfil His (SWT) rights and I continue to make Istighfaar and I still far short.

But I have never committed dishonesty of people, used Deen for personal gains or sold the Deen. Allah (SWT) had always blessed me (from Dunya perspective) and I have always had beyond my means so perhaps this is why I was spared for using Deen for personal gains.

I have 3 Khilafahs from my Akabir, No! Let me say that I have 3 Khilafahs from the TOP AKABIR in the TOP Silsilas as follows:

  1. Hazrat Raipuri (RA) was an Imam of Tassawuff and one of the last signs of that Khanqah we had Syed Nafeesul-Hussaini (RA) and I have Khilafah from him
  2. From Shaykh (Mufti) Yusuf Ludhyanwi (RA)
    1. He had Khilafah from the Silsila of Shaykh (Hazrat) Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA)
    2. He had Khilafah from the Silsila of Shaykhul-Hadeeth (Hazrat) Maulana Zakariyya Khandalwi (RA)
  3. Hazrat Maulana Ghulam Rasool saheb (RA) of Dera Ismail Khan who had Khilafah from Hazrat Lahori (RA)

So if I wanted to connect myself to myself, I could have and I have legal/legitimate reasons (Khilafahs) from top Akabir...I SWEAR BY ALLAH I DON'T WANT TO CONNECT PEOPLE TO ME!

Whoever gets affects by me I only connect people to the work of Tableegh not to myself (personally).

O Yes! I have done dishonesty with Allah (SWT), I have deficiencies and I don't think that I will (overcome these shortcomings) until death but I have NO dishonesty with people (no dodgy dealings, no financial gains NOTHING!)

This is the Karam of my Allah (SWT) upon me.

Yusuf ibn Hussain (RA) was a well known Scholar of Hadeeth and a well known Khateeb and a Wa'iz and on his death bed he said:

O Allah! One was my relationship with you and one was my relationship with your creation (i.e. people). In our relationship I committed dishonesty and I fell short but in the relationship with your creation I was always honest and I conveyed your commandments to them (fully) and I neither asked for recompense nor reward (from them). O my Rabb! I have one dishonesty and one honesty to bring to you. I beg of you to forgive my dishonesty (towards you) at the cost of my honesty with creation.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 05:42
Masha Allah.. Great thread.. really glad to see this..

There is sister housewife's blog on wordpress... She has written much things about Maulana Sahab.. can i poat this up over there?
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 06:01
muslim11 wrote:
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The same sister who wrote the nonsense on vaccines rt..? Plz.. do spare the formality.. we do not want her writings here.. Jazakallah khair..
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 06:08
Colonel saheb i was only aware of his Khilafat from Hazrat Maulana Yousuf Ludhianvi saheb shaheed (rah) did not know the rest.. Jazakallah for the information..
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 10:51
muslim11 wrote:
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By all means you can repost brother Muadhs stuff over there on her blog. I'm sure Dr76 means not to bring her stuff here.

I also hope you take the hint of NOT reading her stuff. Very risky!
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 11:36
Double post
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 11:36
Okey..
No i dont read her stuff.. ( read some posts.. then read a post about Maulana Tariq Jameel Sahab Damat Barakatuhum.. read it once and couldnt swallow.. ( didnt want to do that!!!)
May Allah give her Hidayah...
There are many things that r too ajeeb on her blog..will Insha Allah tell her that..
And i wont post her stuff here Insha Allah.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 12:07
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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