Create an account
Most Reputable Members
  1. Taalibah +5012
  2. abu mohammed +4504
  3. Muadh_Khan +4051
  4. Roukaya19 +3742
  5. Seifeddine-M +3728
  6. dr76 +3232
  7. Jinn +2079
  8. umar123 +1758
  9. Sulaiman84 +1500
  10. ummi taalib +1409

Dreams of the pious and their application to Islamic Shariah

You have contributed 15.9% of this topic

Thread Tools
Post New Topic Filter by poster  
Topic Appreciation
Appreciate
The following members appreciate this topic: rizmalek, sweetmuslimahk1, Yasin, abu mohammed, samy.3660, Taalibah, dr76
2 guests appreciate this topic.
abu mohammed
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
Joined:
6th Oct 2008
Longevity:
28%
Location:
London
Posts:
15555
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4504
#1 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 10:07

Salaam,

Last nite straight after Taraweeh prayers, a well known and well respected Mufti said that there was a text message from Darul Uloom saying that one of the brothers there had a dream and that the Prophet (saw) told him that it is Laylatul Qadr tonight so make the most of your nite. (or it is possible it is Laylatul Qadr).

After a while still sitting in the Masjid, messages started pouring from friends and relatives of this great phenomenon about this dream.

 

SubhanAllah. What is wrong with our Ulama who know very very well that the nite of Power was kept a secret, no one had knowledge of which nite it was in, not even the best of all Humans, The Shabah (ra). So why the need of promoting such dreams. If the Pious have dreams, Alhumdulillah, good for them. But why start a new fitna. What is the reason for this.

 

Message after message poured in with more details of this dream. I dont wish to share such information here, but simply to spread thoughts of how we should reply to these claims.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Site Support
Please DONATE generously towards Muftisays

We spend hundreds of hours ensuring you receive a quality service from this site. We do not fall into the advertisement schemes as all the ads contain elements of Haraam including Haraam Islamic links. Please consider setting up a £1 monthly donation. May Allah (swt) reward you.

abu mohammed
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
Joined:
6th Oct 2008
Longevity:
28%
Location:
London
Posts:
15555
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4504
#2 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 10:13
I was sent a message with a name of the local Imam of a particular mosque and his confirmation of this "dream" and his announcement. I was so annoyed because the sender insisted that last nite was most definately the 27th nite and most definately Laylatul Qadr.

After a few exchanges of messages, I said to the brother, "Our Ulama cant get the timetable right for Salah and they know when Laylatul Qadr is, they can't even get the moonsighting right, do you really think this is true". His final reply was the infamous lol.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
abu mohammed
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
Joined:
6th Oct 2008
Longevity:
28%
Location:
London
Posts:
15555
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4504
#3 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 10:16
One of the responses from an ICOUK Member to this message

Quote:
khwabon ki dunya chhor kar haqiqat ki dunya me aaiye.


Leave the land of dreams and enter the real world.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
5438
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4051
#4 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 11:14

Asslamo Allaikum,

One of the foremost amongst Fuqaha of our times respected, beloved and honoured Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) writes in Discourses on Islamic way of life (Volume 5) about dreams of Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) specifcially:

 

 

report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 4
Malak
Rank Image
Offline
Joined:
5th Oct 2009
Longevity:
10%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
121
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
228
#5 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 13:45

I received a text as well. But it did not say that the mutakif saw the prophet sallalahu alayhi wasalam it said that the mutakif saw Molana Yusuf Motala sahib. Later on my father in law asked someone in darul uloom and said that in the announcement it was said that Molana Yusuf Motala sahib was seen and not the prophet sallalahu alayhi wasalam. We seem to believe everything and anything nowadays before posting messages out to a large group of people one should investigate and look into the information he has received as the Quran instructs us to in surah hujaraat فتبينوا.

This message was sent from my phone and I am unable to make the font size bigger. If the font is too small can admin please make the larger. Shukran
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 3
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
5438
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4051
#6 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 14:17

"Malak" wrote:
I received a text as well. But it did not say that the mutakif saw the prophet sallalahu alayhi wasalam it said that the mutakif saw Molana Yusuf Motala sahib. Later on my father in law asked someone in darul uloom and said that in the announcement it was said that Molana Yusuf Motala sahib was seen and not the prophet sallalahu alayhi wasalam. We seem to believe everything and anything nowadays before posting messages out to a large group of people one should investigate and look into the information he has received as the Quran instructs us to in surah hujaraat فتبينوا. This message was sent from my phone and I am unable to make the font size bigger. If the font is too small can admin please make the larger. Shukran

W-Salam Brother,

The Qur'aan says:

يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓاْ إِن جَآءَكُمۡ فَاسِقُۢ بِنَبَإٍ۬ فَتَبَيَّنُوٓاْ أَن تُصِيبُواْ قَوۡمَۢا بِجَهَـٰلَةٍ۬ فَتُصۡبِحُواْ عَلَىٰ مَا فَعَلۡتُمۡ نَـٰدِمِينَ

[49:6] O you who believe, if a sinful person brings you a report, verify its correctness, lest you should harm a people out of ignorance, and then become remorseful on what you did.

We don't believe anyone from Darul-uloom Bury or IDA to be Faasiq so there is no obliagtion to investigate and may Allah (SWT) protect us from such thoughts. Nevertheless what is the point of discussing these dreams when Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) clearly ORDERED us to look for it in the last 10 odd nights of Ramadhaan

تحروا ليلة القدر في الوتر من العشر الأواخر من رمضان ليلة القدر

Shariah DOES NOT tell us which night it is and we are enjoined to worship all nights (specially odd nights) equally. If someone had a good dream like so (Mubarak for them) but it CANNOT be used to dictate an injunction of Shariah directly given to us by Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam).

Jazakullah Khairun

report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 2
Daywalk3r
Rank Image
Daywalk3r's avatar
Offline
Joined:
10th Oct 2006
Longevity:
63%
Location:
UK
Posts:
1379
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
636
#7 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 15:50
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
abu mohammed
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
Joined:
6th Oct 2008
Longevity:
28%
Location:
London
Posts:
15555
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4504
#8 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 15:59
Jazakallah, but I think brother Malak did a fantastic post and cleared up a vital point.

SubhanAllah
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
5438
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4051
#9 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 16:40

"abu mohammed" wrote:
Jazakallah, but I think brother Malak did a fantastic post and cleared up a vital point. SubhanAllah

See this...

I still have the same issue i.e. whats the need to announce this?

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
abu mohammed
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
Joined:
6th Oct 2008
Longevity:
28%
Location:
London
Posts:
15555
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4504
#10 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 16:46
Exactly point, the fact that the word spread fast that it WAS the Prophet, and this news was spread by the Ulama is the issue in my point of view.

Its the way things get twisted. Ulama should know better.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
rizmalek
Rank Image
rizmalek's avatar
Offline
Joined:
20th Oct 2010
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Qatar, Doha
Posts:
440
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
313
#11 [Permalink] Posted on 15th August 2012 16:50

If the date was lifted from the memory of Prophet SAW then is this message trying to tell me that the person who it was revealed to has received special treatment more than Prophet SAW? ........ Exactly my point !! doesn't sound correct when its broken down like that right?

Save your free texts for some thing better lol.


Personally I think that it is all made up. Like those texts you get every summer , " text yes to 11111" to stop the government from banning the hijab! Like a texting poll is going to change the governments mind..... Lol


People need to wake up and use their brains.

Play hard and pray hard, and Allah will reward you. Insha'Allah



report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Guest-111380
#12 [Permalink] Posted on 16th August 2012 16:05


Mufti abuhajira wrote:
Last 10 nights are all very virtuous. The position of Ulama about such dreams is that we do not make tasdeeq (attest) of it nor do we make takdhib (belie) it. So if some one saw a dream wherein Rasulullah mentions such and such day is laylatul qadr, then the person receiving that dream should make excessive ibadaat. This is not affirmation rather following the advice therein. The advice is NOT contrary to shariah as well. We have been asked to increase in our ibadaat throughout Ramadhan and then throughout last ashara and then last odd nights.

As for the difficulty of us realizing how can one night be laylatul qadr while its day the other side. Then that is the same issue brought in the hadith of Allah descending in the last part of the night, when its last part all the time through out the globe. There are different explanations for this, and they can be seen in the books of sharah of such ahadeeth.

Another opinion which I remember and can post is that Laylatul Qadr can be different nights in different years. So if this year I get basharat somehow that tonight is laylatul qadr, it doesnt mean that every year it will be of the same day of Ramadhan.

So, if such basharat was given to someone, Alhamdulillah good for them. Allah knows the reality of it. It hasnt been given to you, me or us. Let us keep striving to attain Allah's mercy and pleasure in the remaining nights.


report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
abu mohammed
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
Joined:
6th Oct 2008
Longevity:
28%
Location:
London
Posts:
15555
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4504
#13 [Permalink] Posted on 16th August 2012 16:30
Jazakallahu Khair,

The point I'm trying to make is how false messages are spread out via our Ulama (and I'm not talking about the dream). The Ulama have knowledge about dreams and know the rules behind them, surley they should've investigated it further before making announcements. It's not about the dream and who had it etc, its about why the Ulama had to announce it and that too with false info.

When we get bogus text messages saying a Shaykh in Madinah saw a dream etc etc and the if you dont pass this message on, you will be hear bad news in 1 week. How do we react to it? This sort of stuff is the same thing if you ask me.

Thousands of people from many Masajid heard the wrong version and went and told a few hundred people and no one clarified it to them. They have it stuck in their mind that IT WAS the Prophet (saw) in the dream together with THE message. If anyone asks them, who told them, they will say "I heard it from Mufti Saab himself".

No one is being called a liar, but in situations like this, Ascertain the Truth before making announcements.

If we provide hardcore evidence of moon sighting, certain Ulama/Masajid won't even bother looking at it, but news like this gets spread far and wide without knowing the truth.

Tell these same Ulama/Masajid to make an announcement that the time of Suhoor is wrong, see what reaction they will get. News wont spread far, in fact people will say "Mufti Saab is causing Fitna"


All in all, I think the Ulama need to stop saying things that'll please people yet be far from the Truth.

Where have all the Lions of the Ummah gone as Mufti Saeed Ahmed Palanpuri would put it.


Allah, the Exalted, says:

"And follow not (O man) that of which you have no knowledge.'' (17:36)

"Not a word does he (or she) utter, but there is a watcher by him ready (to record it).'' (50:18)

Abu Hurairah (radiallahu anh) said: The Prophet (salallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, "It is enough for a man to prove himself a liar when he goes on narrating whatever he hears.''
[Muslim]

We learn from this Hadeeth that it is not fair to accept everything one hears as true without verifying it. Nor it is right to communicate it to others because it is quite possible that what one has heard is untrue and by communicating it to others, he adds it to his own lies.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
5438
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4051
#14 [Permalink] Posted on 16th August 2012 16:43

"Anonymous" wrote:
Mufti abuhajira wrote:
Last 10 nights are all very virtuous. The position of Ulama about such dreams is that we do not make tasdeeq (attest) of it nor do we make takdhib (belie) it. So if some one saw a dream wherein Rasulullah mentions such and such day is laylatul qadr, then the person receiving that dream should make excessive ibadaat. This is not affirmation rather following the advice therein. The advice is NOT contrary to shariah as well. We have been asked to increase in our ibadaat throughout Ramadhan and then throughout last ashara and then last odd nights. As for the difficulty of us realizing how can one night be laylatul qadr while its day the other side. Then that is the same issue brought in the hadith of Allah descending in the last part of the night, when its last part all the time through out the globe. There are different explanations for this, and they can be seen in the books of sharah of such ahadeeth. Another opinion which I remember and can post is that Laylatul Qadr can be different nights in different years. So if this year I get basharat somehow that tonight is laylatul qadr, it doesnt mean that every year it will be of the same day of Ramadhan. So, if such basharat was given to someone, Alhamdulillah good for them. Allah knows the reality of it. It hasnt been given to you, me or us. Let us keep striving to attain Allah's mercy and pleasure in the remaining nights.

W-Salam,

Masha'Allah great advice from our dear beloved and respected Hazrat (Mufti) Abu Hajira (Damat Baraktuhum) and we now request him to direct it to the right people i.e. "The Ulamah":

  1. Who made it public
  2. Who announced it from the Mimbars
  3. Who actively spread it

Non-Ulamah (the ignorant laymen) simply followed and trusted that Ulamah are telling the truth and their actions are within the bounds of Shariah in presenting this as a Daleel (evidence) and overwrting the explicit advise of Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) who instructed to look for Laylatul-Qad'r in the last 10 odd nights. Apparently unconfirmed and half-narrated dreams are considered enough to over-ride Authentic Hadeeth as per the action of many Ulamah who deemed such a position appropriate to announce it from the mimbars.

Whether it was Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) or Shaykh (Hazrat) Maulana Yusuf Motala Saheb (HA) the injunction is the same i.e. a dream CANNOT be used to contradict a established facet of the Shariah and the fact it wasn't Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam), rather Shaykh (Hazrat) Maulana Yusuf Motala Saheb (HA) lowers the need to transmit this dream to others significantly.

Off course we will NEVER hear from all those who were active in transmitting and forwarding it that they got it wrong!

Jazakullah Khairun

report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 2
Abduljabbar
#15 [Permalink] Posted on 16th August 2012 18:13
I dont think hurling abuse on the internet and making slanderous comment belittleingand personalising this debate to such an extent that i sense a great deal of frustration and despair iMay Allaah have mercy on this group. Many such signs of the lalylatul qadr have been reported in the literature on ramadhan and laylatul qadr.

see virtues of ramadan in english p62 ibn Abbas radiallaho anhu related while sleeping once someone said to me in my dream. Rise up this is laylatul qadr. I woke up and proceeded in haste to Rasullulah sallalaho alaihi wasslam. There i found him in salaat. That was the 23 night. As we have been instructed to search for it in the odd nights of the last ashra so it can change from year to year.
Argue not amongst yourselves, ... Allah is with those who patiently preserve. Sura Anfal v46
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Back to top Post New Topic