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Pronunciation of ض?

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abu mohammed, Taalibah, sipraomer
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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 19th July 2014 19:01
abu mohammed wrote:
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As-salam-u-'Alaykum, just came back from Taraweeh, really got angry, about what took place, daad incorrectly pronounced frequently, and very little time of sitting between sajdahs : (. I.still wonder why no person speaks up

Duas requested.
Jazakumullahu khairan.
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 21st July 2014 00:38
ibn Ismail wrote:
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Have you been confirmed yet that the salah becomes invalid behind the Imam who considers "Zuad" is the correct way of pronunciation of Daad, thus recites Zuad everywhere Daad comes in al-Fatiha?
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2014 03:00
Maria al-Qibtiyya wrote:
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As-salam-u-'Alaykum, mufti sahab, if a Imam frequently recites daad as zaad (like the Urdu one), in recitation of other than Surah Al-Fateha, salah is invalidated?
There is an imam who does this and recites Surah Al-Fateha properly but in the other qiraat, sometimes pronouncea zaad sometimea daad, no person seems to object.

[5:10pm, 7/21/2014] Mufti Ismail Musa: Wassalam
[5:12pm, 7/21/2014] Mufti Ismail Musa: No, salah is not invalidated, but he should be informed and if he does not correct his tajweed after being told, you should speak to the shura to replace him

edited as necessary, but meaning unchanged.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2014 11:25
ibn Ismail wrote:
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Jazaaka-llaahu khayran.

For anyone wondering, I'm pretty sure Mufti Sahib meant "shura" and not "shuraim" " a result of AutoCorrect.
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2014 14:22
samah wrote:
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As-salam-u-'Alaykum, I did wonder though :). Thought it was an alternative word for committee of the Masjid, and then started thinking about Shaikh Shuraim's name meaning. It happens :)
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 24th July 2014 11:36
Assalaamu 'alaykum
I thought of adding the following information I learnt from a Qari sahib. InshaAllah it is of help

STEPS TO PRODUCE THE LETTER ض CORRECTLY

The letter ض is very similar to ظ as they both have the same Sifaate Laazima. It is very easy for the ض to become a ظ.

The ض can also be read as a د with an elevated sound if the correct makhraj of ض is not applied, and in order to avoid these haram mistakes the following steps may be taken:

1. to avoid the makhraj of د & ظ remove the front part of the tongue away from the
Thanaayaa ‘Ulyaa (middle front two teeth) so that there is no mixing of ظ & د into the ض

2. tilt tongue to one side, preferably the left, and move tongue upward to touch the Makhraj which is the gumline of the upper back teeth (making sure that step 1 is still in place)

3. round the other side of the tongue so that it covers the palate (the concave of the tongue
fitting into the convex of the palate) then gradually pronounce the ض applying the quality
of Istitaalat

One may, while doing every day chores, try a physical exercise whereby the left side of the tongue is upturned and placed at the makhraj of ض. This practice makes it easy eventually to pronounce this most difficult letter correctly.




The following picture helps in indicating how the tongue moves to one side



Therefore with most people the tongue moves to the either side touching the gumline of the upper back teeth while the tongue rises up toward the palate

Q. i want to get the pictures smaller but not sure how

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 24th July 2014 12:29
In the masjid I pray taraweeh there was a dewsbury student jamaat that came, the ameer was molana yusuf darwan saab (senior teacher of hadith and leading qari of UK)

The huffaz leading taraweeh were so nervous once they realised molana yusuf was standing right behind them.....

They did however use the 3 days of the jamaats stay to get tips from molana saab and the main letter which they were asking about was the ض of surah fatiha.
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 23:53
The current, popular pronunciation of the letter ض is incorrect and not the pronunciation of the Qurraa' of the past. In fact, the Zaad (lateral velarized fricative) is more accurate than the "Daad" which has unfortunately become widespread today. There is absolutely no evidence for the current pronunciation which is "Daad," and there is a plethora of evidence for the "Zaad." And to those who claim that the "Zaad" is not part of the Sanad, this is false. There are many chains of narration across the world that have preserved this pronunciation. I have personally gathered some chains and am aware of several others from countries such as Pakistan, India, Algeria, Afghanistan, Turkey, Saudi, etc. Feel free to contact me at my email.

Authorizer edit: No email addresses please.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 25th May 2017 21:45
I retract my previous comments in this thread. It turns out that the matter is more complex than many of us would have thought.

There is an ongoing discussion in this thread.
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 5th August 2017 06:35
The manner of pronouncing ‘ض’ is done by one side of the tongue touching the upper back teeth (molars and pre-molars). While following this rule of pronunciation, a person will be able to do it proper.
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 17th August 2017 06:01
The manner of uttering ‘ض’ is done by one side of the tongue touching the up per back teeth (molars and pre-molars).
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 18th February 2019 15:32
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 00:03
samah wrote:
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It is quite disconcerting to think that all the Arab Qurraa', including aimmah of haram, famous misri quraa', etc. are reciting incorrectly. It is much easier to assume that are teachers who are ajami are passing on an error. (This, in spite of knowing that the Arab-ness and tongue of Arabs of our time is no proof.)

However, as mentioned in that thread, there is a very simple test anyone can accomplish that can very simply prove who is pronouncing it correctly. And that is the test of rikhwa:
Quote:
Mawlānā Rashīd Aḥmad Ludhyānwī (1341 – 1422 H/1922 – 2002 CE) has a treatise on the topic called al-Irshād ilā Makhraj al-Ḍād (Aḥsan al-Fatāwā, 3:89-104), in which he explains: “ض has no resemblance with د because ض is a letter of rakhwah, in which the continuation of sound [being possible] is necessary, and د is from the letters of shiddah in which the continuation of the sound is not possible. No person in the entire world can recite ض like د and make the sound continue. This single evidence, from the foundations of the science of Tajwīd, is sufficient [to refute that it is similar-sounding to د], the answer to which will not be possible till Qiyāmah is established. After this foundational evidence, no other evidence is [really] necessary. If anyone is able, let him demonstrate a د with continuation of the sound!” (Aḥsan al-Fatāwā, HM Saeed Company, 3:90)


What rikhwa refers to is an intrinsic property of the letter such that when pronouncing it, it is possible to "stretch" the consonant sound of the letter. For example, the letter "seen", if you put a fathah in front of it: "us" it is possible to continue pronouncing the seen indefinitely, like: "usssssssssssssssssssss." As opposed to, for example kaaf, if you try the same thing "uk" it is not possible to pronounce "ukkkkkkkkkkkkk." (if you try to do it, you will be stretching a خ like sound, not the ك sound) The sound sticks in its place because of how hard you have to pronounce in its origin.

If you read any letter of shiddah with rikhwa or vice versa, it is no longer the original letter.

Now, the letter ض is one of the letters rikhwa, so you should be able to stretch the consonant as above. As mentioned in the quote above, any person who claims that they are reciting ض correctly, and actually they are pronouncing it from near the makhraj of د, they will not be able to stretch it.

You can try this at home and with all of your friends.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 00:16
sipraomer wrote:
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Wallaahu a'alam, that does not sound correct to me. It is not correct to pronounce it from the makhraj of ظ either. In at-tamheed of imam jazari, it's mentioned that their are people (in his time) who pronounce ض as:
  • ظ such as most people of shaam and the east
  • sort of like ط such as most people of misr and some people of west africa
  • د with full mouth (that is basically what is popular nowadays and under discussion)
  • ل with full mouth such as some people of Sudan


So all of the above are incorrect, it doesn't make sense to go from one incorrect to another incorrect.

Out of curiosity, do you know where that Qaari is from, where he studied, and where he lives?
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 00:24
meelash wrote:
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He is from Saudia Arabia and is an Imam Masjid and Arabs pray behind him. Also, an alim himself told me that there is ikhtilaf in the pronunciation of this letter ض. However, I couldn't find more info about that imam. Maybe a Saudi citizen or a person living there could tell us better. Only a very senior Ustaad of Tajweed with a lot of Mutaliah can truly answer that whether this pronunciation goes back to Tabieen or not. We must not categorically say that it is wrong unless we are dead sure about it.
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