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Pronunciation of ض?

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abu mohammed, Taalibah, sipraomer
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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 01:33
(salam)


What's the correct pronunciation of ض ? I just read, the whole Arab world recite "Daad" and deobundis recite "Zaad".
One of them is bid'ah? which kind of pronunciation is supported by classical texts?

Earlier I used to recite Daad as my mum taught me to recite this way, but when brother's teacher taught him Zaad then I also started reciting Zaad.

Why is this ikhtilaaf? And what's the correct way?
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 01:54
Maria al-Qibtiyya wrote:
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There is no Ikhtilaaf in the pronunciation of Daad (ض). Only in Urdu, it is pronounced like "Zuad", similar to the letter (ز). In Arabic, however, it cannot be compared to the letter Daal (د) nor Zaay/Zaa (ز).

A simple way to learn (or at least recognize) its pronunciation is to listen to the Qur'aan. Shaykh Husary's recitation in either Murattal or Mujawwad style is very clear. Some websites where one can listen to different Qurraa' (Qaaris) reciting the Qur'aan are tanzil.net, allahsbook.com/learn, and mp3quran.net.

To learn how to pronounce the letter oneself, however, one may need a teacher.

edit: see update in this post.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 02:41
ض: Press your tongue up against your upper molars, without touching the tip of your tongue to your front teeth.

Urdu and Persian pronunciations have been mixed up with Arabic in such an extent that except Quran recitation (Deobandi) 'Ulama pronounce some Arabic in wrong way.

Take the famous example: Zayd beat up 'Amr.

Correct pronunciation should be: ض araba Zaydun 'Amran.

(I've found among Deobandi 'Ulama in different regions of our country,) they pronounce: Zaraba Zaydun 'Amran.

Another pronunciation is widely used wrongly. It generally happens while reading the last ن (noon) with kasrah of a word. For instance, "Yaf'alaani" is pronounced as "Yaf'alaane", "Qalamayni" as "Qalamayne", "Rajulayni" as "Rajulayne" and so on ("e" is pronounced like e in "emblem", "elf" in English).

I sincerely asked my teacher of Arabic (Mufti) that why didn't they use correct pronunciation. He remained silent.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 05:53
samah wrote:
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I give an example:

Check here www.recitethequran.com/1:7/w9 the recitation of وَلَا الضَّآلِّيۡنَ , it is pronounced as Dualeen.

But my brother has been taught to recite it "Zualeen".

Is it ''wal ad dualeen'' or ''wal ad zualeen''?

I'm asking, why is this difference? If you say there's no Ikhtilaf, does it mean both are correct?


Jazakallahu khairan.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 07:32
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 08:42
My sister maria.. :)
1st thre lines of Black turban brothrs post.. thats what my Tajweed teacher taught..
What ever, sound comes.. thats ur makhraj.. :))
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 14:17
umar123 wrote:
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Jazakallahu khairan. Any explanation why it's wrong?
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 14:22
Maria al-Qibtiyya wrote:
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The property of an alphabet is in its pronounciation. The same reason we cannot pronounce Qaaf as Kaaf, or in english X as S etc. Each letter has to be pronounced from its proper parts from the mouth/tongue/throat/lips etc.

For ض one has to touch the tongue on the molar teeth.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 14:27
Also because the Asians have mixed their language I to the reading of the Quran. Hence the incorrect pronouncements.

One example:

Ramadhan and Ramzan. In Arabic and Urdu, both are written exactly the same, but Pakistani and Indians pronounce it with the z to suite their mother tongue.

They have carried this teen into reading the Quran too and must be rectified.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2014 21:12
I remember reading about this on SF, here it is. MashaAllah a detailed explanation, with scholars' input included.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 25th May 2014 05:21
Jazakillahu khairan sis Habibah.

I'd just post it here:

Scholar Hamood Here on SF wrote:
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Let me begin by mentioning a few important things:
- Tajweed has nothing to do with a 'good voice'. Due to our ignorance, many reciters with good voices are given the title Qari. Whereas in reality, as they are observing most rules of tajweed, they are making many major mistakes in recitation. A friend of ours from S. Africa, Moulana Ahmed Moola prefers to call these people Tarkaari. (The Gujarati word for 'Saalan' - If you don't know what that is, then you need to go to Mumtaz in Bradford, or Bukhara in Samlesbury - Or Chutneys in San Francisco)
- Tajweed can only be studied an obtained by sitting in front of a teacher. Not on an audio CD, dvd, or a computer program. - As Mufti Abdurrahman ibn Yusuf (who studied by our tajweed teacher for one year) put it, Qari Mohammad Siddique Falahi teaches his students to be critics. Tajweed is an art only obtainable after your mistakes are pointed out to you time and again. We were required to walk into class with small mirrors to make sure our lips didn't move when we recited the 'Sheen' in the Ta'awwuz.
- Just because one is an Arab does not mean he/she recites the Qur'an correctly. In fact, technically speaking, even Sudais breaks many rules of Tajweed. Shall I remind you that just correct pronunciation of letters is not enough tajweed. It is everything from prolonging, stopping, etc. - Sa'ud Shuraim and Abdallah Al 'Awwad Johani are the two best Imams of the Haram, in terms of following the rules of Tajweed. (Although my personal best is Mohammad bin Sulayman Al Muhaysini [who, technically speaking breaks many rules of tajweed])
- The difference of opinion in the recitation of Daad has nothing to do with Barelwis or Deobandis. This is not a Deobandi/Barelwi issue, or an Arab/'Ajam issue. It's a matter of understanding.

Now, to the crux of the matter at hand.

Khulasatul Bayaan is a very famous book of the rules of Tajweed, and typically taught in the final year of studying Tajweed, and the most famous commentary of it in urdu has been authored by our ustaadh, Qari Mohammad Siddique Falahi. (Fath al Rahman Fi Sharh Khulasatil Bayan). It took him almost 10 years of research to put this together. I remember seeing him working on this during his Ramadan vacations almost 15 years ago.

I have read the entire chapter on this in the book, and without going into detail, I will mention a summary of what is mentioned.

The Makhraj of Daad is: The side of the tongue (Haafa) when touching the (roots of) molars and pre-molars (of the top) on both sides or on one side, although from the left (only) is the easiest. (Note: The Makhraj of Daad is the same everywhere. 'Arab, 'Ajam, Deobandi, Barelwi, Salafi, and whatever else is out there)

This means, that 5 or 10 teeth will be utilized in pronouncing this letter. If from one side, then 5 teeth, and if from both sides, 10 teeth. This letter is unique to the Arabic language, and it is extremely difficult to pronounce this letter correctly. Due to this, many pronounce this letter as a Daal with a full mouth, or Dhaal with a full mouth, or something else, which is all incorrect. The beauty is that each of these people claims that they are most correct.

Now, let us look at how these people pronounce this letter. Many people, when pronouncing this letter utilize the (front) tip of their tongue and touch root of the front top two teeth (incisors). All of this is incorrect. Now for a moment, pronounce the letter Daad, and stop there. Which part of the tongue did you utilize and which teeth did you utilize? Most likely you utilized the front tip of the tongue and the two front teeth, which is incorrect. This is exactly how many of our Qurraa', including Imams of the Haram pronounce their Daad. - Due to the ignorance of many people, even Imams are forced into pronouncing it incorrectly. They should try to educate the masses, as I have to.

My question to them is, you made your own Makhraj for the letter Daad. If you would have followed the real Makhraj, truthfully speaking, since you are so used to pronouncing it incorrectly, and it is so hard to pronounce from its original Makhraj, you probably can't even pronounce it, unless someone helped you with it. - In my own practice of this letter, I have to say that after practicing tajweed for an hour on a daily basis for 5-6 years, it was towards the end I think I finally got it right. This does not mean it's impossible, rather it is quite possible, but needs lots of practice.

Let me remind you in closing that:
- The Makhraj of the letter Daad is same around the world
- Most Qurraa' utilize the front tip of the tongue and front two teeth, which is incorrect.
- What needs to be used is the side of the tongue with the molars, and let me tell you, it's not easy.



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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 4th June 2014 02:47
abu mohammed wrote:
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Yes, I am a Pakistani, and follow an imam at a Masjid near my relatives' house, he pronounces daad in Surah Fateha, but the Urdu style in others.

I asked the validity of salah behind such imams, from 2 q and a sites, (don't want to take name), but did not get a clear answer

Perhaps, anyone here know it

jazakumullahu khairan
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 4th June 2014 13:18
abu mohammed wrote:
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As-salam-u-'Alaykum,
But what if the imam, does it unintentionally, he leads Taraweeh, jumua, eid salah, and is old aged. I do wonder why no person ever pointed this out to change the imam.

Wassalam.
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