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Understanding & Reviving the Sunnah of Moon Sighting in Britain

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abu mohammed
#76 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2017 12:39
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Double facepalm.

This just goes to show your (and I quote you) "lack of intellectual depth". It's difficult to (and i quote you) "bring myself DOWN to your level of intellect". And to think that you're not a layman? The irony is that while you degrade yourself you're able to insult the intelligence of others, like calling that poor brother "concerned" a fool and all sorts of other derogatory names in that other thread on Mufti Menk. Funny enough your chamchas were nowhere to be seen there expressing outrage and reprimanding you for your insults and defending the honour of that brother.

Let me break it to you again in short sentences this time so you have a better chance of understanding what I've been saying.

You are a layman, believe it or not. You are only qualified for Taqleed. You need to respect all the opinions of authentic Ulama. Respect both sides of the moon-sighting issue. Respect both sides of the photos issue. Respect both sides of any other issue where the Ulama hold conflicting positions. Adopt one position but don't criticize the other opinion also held by authentic Ulama.

Basically, don't be a bigot. Don't be a keyboard Mujtahid. Don't pick and choose which difference of opinions you're going to respect and regard as valid.

They're all valid as long as they're held by authentic Ulama.

IS YOU GETTING IT?
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#77 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2017 12:58
So many guest posts, it's hard to tell whose who!

Why not come out of the veil and stop being a chamchi (lol, I actually goggled chamcha and saw it's definition in the urban dictionary, so I guess the veil goes well with the chamchi )

Put a name to the posts to make life just that little bit easier.
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#78 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2017 14:26

Anonymous wrote:
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Not Relevant: Just try spellchecking before posting and it will be great help. I understand that Grammar maybe beyond your grasp.

Context:  Concerned is a person who slandered “Ulama” and if his opinions are taken on face value, laymen would be freemixing (Hamza Yusuf) listening to Music (Shaykh Judai)and following Mufti Abu Layth. But I guess, I think that your heart is so filled with my hatred that you are willing to overlook all of those possibilities. 

Relevant: Since you are in a position to judge me, I am assuming that you are intellectually superior and able to answer. Let me know whenever you wish to discuss the topic.

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#79 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2017 15:08
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Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I agree, a lot has been said in ways where it could be improved. Post(s) were removed, however, some were more beneficial than others, educational and eye-opening.

We all agree with differences of opinions, but when there is blatant evidence of misrepresentation, then things are discussed to correct the view of others or errors of scholars are looked into. This does not mean we should start to ridicule them or members supporting them, rather we should educate them with the evidence of other reputable scholars.

Saudi is known to have their own school of thought, be it Salafi, Hanbali, Albani or whatever and we have to respect that, but no school of thought promotes lying and deception. If the Qadhi is at fault, then that's their issue. But for those who know with evidence of the falsehood, should not follow lies. It is these people who are causing disunity.

Quote:
They're all valid as long as they're held by authentic Ulama

Agreed, but the issue in many cases is due to falsehood and miracles :)
These authentic Ulama also say that we in the UK should not follow Saudi for obvious reasons! So why the double standards?


PLEASE DO NOT MIX THREADS UP - Stick to the current topic and if one is unable to post in that section, sign up or remain a silent reader please.
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#80 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2017 15:53

abu mohammed wrote:
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Because you cannot win against Hate. There is no other reason for opposition.

Hate is not logical, it’s just raw poison which sullies the heart.

You can go from ZERO to HERO in five minutes by stating Hazrat (XYZ) parked incorrectly in front of the Masjid. His Mureeds will hate you with all their heart (they may not say it) but they will internalise the statement that this person is a hater of Ulama and Mashaykh.

Some of you may find what I am saying bizarre but this is ABSOLUTELY THE REASON for not going away from Saudi Moonsighting because some very big Hazrats will have to backtrack on their stance.

When you sit and associate with the Sufees, you realise how far Hazrat worship has penetrated and how deeply it is penetrated. Their whole Islam is based upon their (perceived) opinion of someone towards their Shaykh.

Just like Fajar Salah (issue) it will take someone like Shaykh (Maulana) Saleem Dhorat Saheb (HA) to break the deadlock and then laymen (Sufees) will begin to switch.  That is why such Ulama are under immense and intense pressure NOT to make any statements on Moonsighting because what he (HA) did with Fajar cannot be allowed to happen again!  There are gigantic ramifications amongst British Deobandi Sufees regarding Fajar Salah and the enormity of Leicester decision cannot be underestimated.

There is almost ZERO support amongst Deobandi Ulama for Saudi Moonsighting, they all know the issue, they are aware of the Fatawa. This isn’t an issue of Fiqh (at all).

When I speak about Sufees, I don’t speak with hatred but I merely quote the facts. When you read scientific studies about “cults” and you experience “cults”, you realise that these are not bad or nasty people…Then one day Allah Ta’ala opens their heart and then analyse their own shortcomings.

In Bosnia, neighbours who lived alongside Muslims (for generations) one day raped their neighbours because the propaganda because so intense they couldn’t think straight. Some of these people later killed themselves. There are (Ex-Sufees) and (Ex-Salafees) who leave Islam (even) when they wake up and realise things about their past life.

It’s not the fault of innocent Muslim (men and women). People are generally good (by nature), they just simply become tribal and exhibit certain behaviours.

It takes some very serious GUTS to think (analytically) and differ with people. It takes NOTHING to conform and just go along.

That is why there is great reward for standing for the truth. You will be personally targeted, abused and savaged.

You will witness HATE like you have never witnessed before.

I have worked with Ulama extensively and they have praised me tremendously and they have laughed off what I do (as eccentric or funny). Their behaviour completely changes when they find out two things about me:

  1. My Ex-Shaykh
  2. My stance on Moonsighting

Nothing else, my behaviour doesn’t change and my attitude remains the same. Just two (facts) come to their attention.

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#81 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2017 18:52
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When you sit and associate with the Sufees, you realise how far Hazrat worship has penetrated and how deeply it is penetrated. Their whole Islam is based upon their (perceived) opinion of someone towards their Shaykh.


Nothing wrong there.

If you are start listening to logics, you will be sufee in the morning and salafi in the evening, barelvi in mid of night and may be an athiest the next morning.

Let there be late response, and leave the decisions to their shaykhs and avoid independent decisions.
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#82 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2018 10:01
The layman's duty is only taqlid of righteous Ulama. It is not his duty to decide what is a sound position or not. He should not criticize another position if righteous Ulama hold that position.

The problem happens when the layman gets to big for his boots and starts telling other layman to stop doing taqlid. The whole point of taqlid is to acknowledge one is not in a position to judge what is sound and what is not sound, and instead leave matters to the Ulama. By opening the door for layman to question taqlid of righteous Ulama you open a can of worms. Then every valid ikhtilaf of righteous Ulama the layman finds doesn't make sense he will start questioning and maybe even criticize.

So in matters of ikhtilaf such as moonsighting, photos, group Dua after namaaz, and many many others, it is not for layman to criticize and decide that a position held by righteous Ulama is wrong even if to his limited understanding he can't make sense of a particular position. Too much fitnah starts when layman becomes too big for his boots and starts telling others to question taqlid.

Much of this fitnah we see today in matters of valid ikhtilaf is from layman thinking such and such position is wrong. He should humble himself and leave such issues to the Ulama, and just stick to taqlid of righteous Ulama.
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#83 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2018 10:15

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Nope!

Taqleed CANNOT be done of a non-existent position. Now take the time to answer the question because you have raised a point.

  1. Saudi Arabia DOES NOT make announcement for Islamic Months for 12 months, so how did you follow Rajab when the announecment is not even made?
  2. When the announcement is made, how is the news conveyed to British Muslims? What is the Shariah approved mechanism of obtaining the news and delivering it to British Muslims?

Don't short-change or change the discussion but stick to how it is a viable option where there is no 12 monthly announcement? If you don't know go to the Ulama who make you follow and ask them the question.

HOW DID YOU start Rajab 1439?

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#84 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2018 10:53
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I simply follow my local Ulama. Is it even my duty as a layman to ask them what the basis of their ruling is, especially one that is followed by the vast majority of righteous Ulama in this country? If yes, then I would ask them about many other issues which doesn't make sense to me, and I may even start to criticize those positions simply because it doesn't "make sense" to my limited understanding.

Those who criticize photos, for example, also adopt the same rhetoric as yours. They say it's a nonsensical position. They say it doesn't make sense that a photo is not a picture. And so on. Is it even the layman's duty to ask questions on the basis of the ruling and make such a judgement? Does his judgement even matter? Should he not simply suspend his intellect and just trust the Ulama?

Please explain the concept of taqlid to me again. Specifically explain when should a layman suspend his intellect and simply do taqlid, and when should he actually look into an issue, ask questions and then make a judgement.
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#85 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2018 11:16

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The issue of Photography is a genuine issue backed by Hadeeth.

There is NO TAQLEED in a non existent position at all.

There is no announcement from Saudi Arabia for all 12 months so there is no position for you and anybody else to follow.

There is no intellect for you to suspend on a non-existent issue so keep playing your games.

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#86 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2018 11:37
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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You're very good at evading the difficult questions.

Let me just put it to you simply like this and then hopefully everyone could move on with their lives:

Am I sinful for simply trusting my local Ulama on when to start the month and not asking them any questions on this issue?

If no, then everyone can simply ignore you and move on with their lives.

If yes, then we can start a discussion on the concept of taqlid.

If you don't know, then simply say so.

I wait for a simple one word answer from you. I hope you don't evade giving a simple yes or no answer.
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#87 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2018 11:40
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You're very good at evading the difficult questions.

Simple Question :)

Do you break your fast before sunset, during sunset or after sunset?
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#88 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2018 11:43

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YES once you know that there is NO position for you to follow at all.

Confirmed with Ulama that there is no Taqleed when you know a position is erroneous.

There is no position for you to do Taqleed ON when there is no announcement from Saudi Arabia at all for Rajab (and other such months).

Because Allah Ta'ala knows that you are playing games and hiding behind excuses as Allah Ta'ala knows the hearts and minds.

Otherwise Qadiyanees will say that they are making Taqleed of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed and it will be valid!

Read very carefully what I am writing and what I am arguing.

Now your turn to asnwer my direct question.

HOW did you follow Rajab 1439 when Saudi Government DOES NOT even make an announcement?

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#89 [Permalink] Posted on 28th April 2018 11:57
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There you go, not entirely unexpected, but you're unable to give even a straightforward simple yes or no answer to a straightforward easy question. You had to qualify your answer with "once you know that there is NO position for you to follow...". Which implies that if I do not know then I am not sinful.

So let me clarify that no, I do not know "that there is NO position for me to follow", and I'm definitely not going to take the word of some random person online.

In fact, the position of righteous Ulama is ALWAYS a valid position for the layman. Once I've determined that they are righteous scholars I do not need to ask them even a single question on the basis of their rulings. If you think that these righteous Ulama are like Mirza Ghulam Ahmed then we can pursue a separate discussion on that front, after you've been finally able give a simple straightforward answer to my original simple question.

I'm in the category of the vast majority of the layman in the country. I, like most other layman, have no idea about the processes involved in moonsighting in Saudi or any other country for that matter. I, like most other layman, have no idea on how my local Ulama come to the conclusion on how to decide the month, or which country to follow. I, like most other layman, hardly even know the names of the Islamic months, etc. etc.

Treat me like the vast majority of laymen in this country who simply follow what their local righteous Ulama are doing.

So "once" you know that I'm in the category of the vast majority of layman in this country, please try (for once) give a straightforward yes or no answer to the question posed before.

I'll capitalize the question (with further clarification in brackets) to make the seemingly difficult task easier for you:

AM I (LIKE THE VAST MAJORITY OF LAYMEN IN THIS COUNTRY) SINFUL FOR SIMPLY TRUSTING MY LOCAL RIGHTEOUS ULAMA ON WHEN TO START THE MONTH AND NOT ASKING THEM ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS ISSUE?

I await (with baited breath) a simple yes or no answer (without qualification)(for once).
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#90 [Permalink] Posted on 28th April 2018 12:11

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SECOND TIME:

The answer to your question is YES  if you know the facts. There is no Taqleed when the position is non-existent.

Now to my question:

  1. WHERE did you get the news for Rajab 1439 WHEN Saudi Government DOES NOT even make a public announcement?
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