Understanding & Reviving the Sunnah of Moon Sighting in Britain

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd July 2017 10:48

There are roughly 3,300 Mosques, Islamic centres and Musallas in UK. Majority of them do not follow Saudi Arabia. This was conveyed to Mufti Taqi Usmani (DB) privately and he was told that if he wants statistics a detailed briefing can be given to him and anyone else who disputes.

Let those who have been lying to him for decades that there are 700 Mosques in UK and majority follow Saudi Arabia come to the briefing and challenge facts.

A large number of Deobandees (Senior Ulama and laymen) DO NOT follow Saudi Arabia either. There are many who are Deobandees, pray 5 times a day in a Deobandi Masjid and then donâ€™t follow Saudi Arabia for Moon Sighting.

Very well known Ulama regularly do this, without making a fuss. If you take the example of major Darul-ulooms in UK, there are ACTING and PREVIOUS teachers who DO NOT follow Saudi Arabia. None of these Ulama make a fuss, they simply do it. Not 1 or 2 but multiple Darul-ulooms, multiple teachers, multiple senior personalities NO LONGER follow Saudi Arabia.

Mufti Taqi Usmani (DB) and Mufti Rafi Usmani (DB) both now know that the "facts" which have been fed to them for years are suspect.

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:54

lol, pick and choose taqleed.

Thousands of authentic Ulama give a ruling. But, hey, let's drop taqleed suddenly and even stop respecting ikhtilaaf, becauss i've mastered the fiqh of moonsighting and know what all these Ulama do not know, and that also makes me feel a whole lot better with a touch of exclusivity.

Other rulings that don't make sense to me but suits my desires, just freeze my brains and do firm and unquestioning taqleed. Don't think too hard and don't pay attention to possibly glaring flaws because the Ulama always know best.

This is worse than the salafis. At least they're more consistent. The DOUBLE-STANDARDS on taqleed of Ulama, respecting ikhtilaaf, unity, etc. is so clear here.

You guys keep patting yourself on your backs and maybe one day all these thousands of Ulama who haven't got a clue about the fiqh of moonsighting will do taqleed of you experts - if they ever even bother to pay attention to the self-serving ramblings of a bunch of laymen. Good luck with that.

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:01

Anonymous wrote:

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Are you saying that thousands of Indian, Pakistani (Hanafi) Ulama seem to be on error because they seem to have rejected your version of Global Moon Sighting?

A simple Yes/No will do.

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:03

Quote:

if they ever even bother to pay attention to the self-serving ramblings of a bunch of laymen.

At least it got your attention :)

Who knows, one day you might come back here to copy and paste the work posted here to back those scholars and yourself against those guys who don't agree with your new findings.

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:14

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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No, i'm saying as layman, we should respect both opinions. Don't criticise either position as they're both held by many great Ulama. Or we might as well open the door for laymen to nitpick, pick faults, criticise, ridicule, etc. all the other rulings in which authentic Ulama hold contrasting positions.

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:17

Respecting, accepting, obeying and acting upon are all different.

Acting upon is the most vital.

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:25

Anonymous wrote:

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Scenario:

Good, now consider these facts if you are indeed a HANAFI. By Global Moon Sighting I mean any sighting from anywhere in the world

Hanafi Ulama in India DO NOT follow Global Moon Sighting
Hanafi Ulama in Pakistan DO NOT follow Global Moon Sighting
Hanafi Ulama in Bangladesh DO NOT follow Global Moon Sighting
Hanafi Ulama in Afghanistan DO NOT follow Global Moon Sighting
Hanafi Ulama in Turkey DO NOT follow Global Moon Sighting
Hanafi Ulama in South Africa DO NOT follow Global Moon Sighting
Hanafi Ulama in America DO NOT follow Global Moon Sighting
Hanafi Ulama in Canada DO NOT follow Global Moon Sighting

Darul-uloom Deoband, Saharunpur, Dhabail, Karachi, Khair-Madaris etc DO NOT advocate Muslims in Britain to follow Global Moon Sighting

Question 1:

You don't actually Global Moon Sighting...you follow SAUDI MOON SIGHTING exclusively. That is not even the Hanafi Madhab.

Moon is not sighted in Saudi Arabia, it is sighted earlier in the whole world in:

In a single region of Saudi Arabia
By a single individual (90%) of the time

A day ahead of the whole world. Does Hanafi Madhab advocate that this can happen consistently?

Question 2:

How will you declare the start of Dhul-Qa'dah based on Saudi Arabia?

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:30

When I did Eid on Monday, my own brother said to me, I'll laugh if you have 28 days next month.

I told him what I needed to, of course I know he's playing devils advocate because he's always asking the right questions and putting everything in context.

On that note, I was wondering if and when Saudi Arabia had 28 or 31 days then had to admit their error. It's happened before and billions were paid out as kaffarah.

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 12:37

Put Ramadhan and Eid aside, how do those who advocate following Saudi Arabia suggest British Muslims to fast on the 13th, 14th and 15th of Safar (which is Sunnah).

Give us a solution?

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 13:55

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Solution for the middle of the month is fairly easy I guess.

Fast for 5 days, intend in the beginning to fulfill the Sunnah and the rest outside of the Sunnah days as nafil fasts?

The Sunnah won't be missed and you'll get more rewards for the nafil fasts too.

Or just do Monday's and Thursday's.

It doesn't really seem like and argument I can put forward. If there are records of the Saudis having 28 or 31 days, that would be cool.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 14:54

ali wrote:

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Fasting on the 13th, 14th and 15th is explicitly mentioned in Hadeeth as follows:

ÙˆØ¹Ù† Ø¬Ø±ÙŠØ± Ø¨Ù† Ø¹Ø¨Ø¯ Ø§Ù„Ù„Ù‡ Ø±Ø¶ÙŠ Ø§Ù„Ù„Ù‡ Ø¹Ù†Ù‡ Ø¹Ù† Ø§Ù„Ù†Ø¨ÙŠ ØµÙ„Ù‰ Ø§Ù„Ù„Ù‡ Ø¹Ù„ÙŠÙ‡ ÙˆØ³Ù„Ù… Ù‚Ø§Ù„ : ( ØµÙŠØ§Ù… Ø«Ù„Ø§Ø«Ø© Ø£ÙŠØ§Ù… Ù…Ù† ÙƒÙ„ Ø´Ù‡Ø± ØµÙŠØ§Ù… Ø§Ù„Ø¯Ù‡Ø± ØŒ ÙˆØ£ÙŠØ§Ù… Ø§Ù„Ø¨ÙŠØ¶ : ØµØ¨ÙŠØØ© Ø«Ù„Ø§Ø« Ø¹Ø´Ø±Ø© ØŒ ÙˆØ£Ø±Ø¨Ø¹ Ø¹Ø´Ø±Ø© ØŒ ÙˆØ®Ù…Ø³ Ø¹Ø´Ø±Ø©

ÙˆØ¹Ù† Ø£Ø¨ÙŠ Ø£Ø¨Ø§ Ø°Ø± Ø±Ø¶ÙŠ Ø§Ù„Ù„Ù‡ Ø¹Ù†Ù‡ Ù‚Ø§Ù„ : Ù‚Ø§Ù„ Ù„ÙŠ Ø±Ø³ÙˆÙ„ Ø§Ù„Ù„Ù‡ ØµÙ„Ù‰ Ø§Ù„Ù„Ù‡ Ø¹Ù„ÙŠÙ‡ ÙˆØ³Ù„Ù… : ( Ø¥Ø°Ø§ ØµÙ…ØªÙŽ Ø´ÙŠØ¦Ø§ Ù…Ù† Ø§Ù„Ø´Ù‡Ø± ÙØµÙ… Ø«Ù„Ø§Ø« Ø¹Ø´Ø±Ø© ØŒ ÙˆØ£Ø±Ø¨Ø¹ Ø¹Ø´Ø±Ø© ØŒ ÙˆØ®Ù…Ø³ Ø¹Ø´Ø±Ø©

How do those advoate following Saudi Sighting fulfill this Sunnah during the month of Safar?

Show us the Saudi Moon Sighting announcement?
Show us how the decision was conveyed to them?

If they are relying on pre-determined Ummul-Qura Calendar, come clean and tell British Muslims about it.

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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 15:21

You asked me for a solution, I kind of gave you one.

We're talking about 1 day, you're giving me 3 more :)

The list of important dates can go on.

I understand what your getting to, the fact that Saudi don't do sighting for most of the other months, hence my query of any records of 28 days or 31 days. Coz the thing is, they can play Russian roulette with 29/30 days and make up their errors.

They probably go out of sync with the moon, then come back in by going out again, if you know what I mean.

They probably do more 29 days in a year than what we should have.

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 6th July 2017 13:07

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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The level of stupidity here only proves my point even more. You guys are only qualified for Taqleed, nothing else whatsoever.

Here I am complaining that none of us here are qualified at all to analyze let alone criticize the rulings of Ulama, especially one held by thousands of them. And what's the response? "Show us the evidences of your Ulama akhi" lol. Except your one here is even funnier: "Here's the evidences for why all those thousands of Ulama are wrong, bro. Now follow and trust me and ignore their ruling, and while you're at it also give me the ruling for so and so scenario, and provide the evidences for that too." Are you really not able to see the stupidity of what you're doing here?

I haven't even asked the Ulama I follow for any evidences or explanation for hundreds (maybe even thousands) of issues I follow and trust them in. Then some random ignoramus on the street starts explaining why all these Ulama are wrong and can't be trusted on an issue. You tell me, why should I even bother listening to the evidences and explanation of this random ignoramus?

How are you guys any different to those bigots who make a mountain out of other things where Ulama differ in such as photos?

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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 6th July 2017 13:26

Anonymous wrote:

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Skipping to answer questions and making the same remarks about calling people STUPID (multiple times) doesn’t get you anywhere.

Does this mean that you have run out of answers? So here is mine:

Darul-uloom Deoband have looked at the earlier agreements, evaluated the current circumstances in Britain and ruled that following Saudi Arabia in Britain is INVALID.

Whenever you want to talk about actual issues involved, let me know.

P.S: Anytime you want to discuss photography, also let me know...

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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 6th July 2017 14:15

Anonymous wrote:

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muadh isnt a random ignoramus. he is personally known to many members on this forum and many ulama as well some of whom he works in close proximity. mashallah, he spends a lot of time in the service of the deen and a lot of people rely on him for many issues. he may be an ignoramus to you, but he definitely isnt random and off the streets.

whereas you are so random and so off the streets that we have no idea who you are and why you hide behind a guest account. its easy to insult people when anonymous. i wonder how brave you are in real life? its also easy to insult you and call you an ignoramus, but i hope that the members on this forum will show better manners than you.

if you want to put the saudi case forward then why dont you? or have you just come here to start an argument, insult people, and then go off?

if you really have a point to put forward regarding the saudi case then i personally am very interested to hear it. i have enquired many people including ulama as to why we should follow saudi, but not even one has given me an explanation.

so if you have something decent to add then please do. if you are here just to create fitnah then it is better for your deen and akhirah if you just leave.

if you have an axe to grind with muadh then i am quite sure that he is willing to meet you so you can present your concerns to him in an islamic manner.

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Understanding & Reviving the Sunnah of Moon Sighting in Britain

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