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Fashion show in Madina sparks Saudi anger on Twitter

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2018 20:09
Would it be problematic if a lady in loose clothing, which covers the awrah necessary to be covered in front other women, displays such clothing for other women in a non provocative way?

I am asking because I have seen a masjid organize a similar event already.
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2018 20:37
Concerned wrote:
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im not a mufti or alim of any calibre, but ulama state that following the kuffar is haram. i read that in early days of india ulama made wearing jackets haram as this was not a custom of the muslims. fashion parades are in emulation of the kuffar and not a custom of the muslims. besides that, fashion is about pride and vanity, again not a custom of the muslims and are haram.

there are probably other issues with fashion parades as well that the ulama will be able to expand on.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2018 22:08
Quote:
there are probably other issues with fashion parades as well that the ulama will be able to expand on.


Possibly, and I have no problem accepting valid reasons for it being prohibited.

In regards to what the early ulama of India ruled, I heard they ruled we shouldn't speak English and as a result we still have some ulama who speak against learning deen in English and put some kind of blessings in Urdu, putting it above learning Arabic. Up to this day, some ulama insist that little kids should learn urdu in maktab, and since we have non asian muslims in our communities I guess they need to learn urdu as well. And they ruled that we shouldn't do musafaha with one hand, even though it is also from the sunnah to do so, resulting in muslims in the west arguing with salafis over which way is sunnah. And kite flying was forbidden due to its association with a hindu festival, and some ulama still issue that fatwa for other places. So these rulings are subject to time and place and debatable.

Edit: during a period of my youth I use to hear some people say playing cricket is haram. Not sure of there is a fatwa from India that says so.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2018 22:38
Concerned wrote:
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my point was about emulating the kuffar. i understand that the prohibition of emulating the kuffar needs to be within context and can differ through time and place. but personally, i will never agree with emulating the kuffar in displays of vanity and extravagance such as fashion shows. even the kuffar themselves hold fashion shows to be a display of vanity. even if all the ulama in the world declare fashion shows to be halal, i will still not accept it. the concept is alien to islam and to fitrah itself. it is an offshoot of consumerism. it creates pride, envy, jealousy, love of dunya and wealth. they are the opposite of the sunnah and islam. there is no good in it whatsoever. what benefit is there in fashion shows?
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2018 07:33
if im not mistaken but aint saudia already in process of opening the biggest theatre in the arab world in Madinah?

i joked a few years ago laat and uzza will return to saudia. i wouldnt be surprised if MbS reintroduced as part od saudi history/culture.
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2018 10:21
ht tps: //pbs . twimg . com/media/DYJc9_QVMAEbh-B.jpg
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2018 10:29
@Concerned

Umpteenth time, correction!

Don’t lie and twist the facts at all. Don't slander Ulama, you have the right to disagree so disagree with facts and don't spin the truth to suit your vile agenda.

You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your facts!
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2018 11:26
Kindly point out my lie.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2018 18:06
Quote:
, I heard they ruled we shouldn't speak English


I heard that from a UK DU graduate. It seems he was mistaken, or he was just referring to the hatred his teachers or mentors had for English language.

Below is a clarification from DU Deoband. So this point does not apply to this conversation. nevertheless if in 2018 a shaikh ul hadith from the UK can say to the effect that not teaching the children Urdu leads to them loosing their deen, and that maktabs must start teaching Urdu ki pehli from tomorrow, it means we think we are still
living in a different time period.


Quote

THE MUSLIMS' AVOIDANCE OF THE ENGLISH EDUCATION

This blame has gained notoriety against the Ulama of India, particularly against the Ulama of Deoband, that, by issuing a Fatwa against the acquirement of the English education, they prevented the Muslims from acquiring it, wherefore the Muslims lagged behind other communities in the field of worldly progress. But this blame is baseless, because the Ulama were against only that curriculum which might lead the Muslims towards atheism and irreligion. This danger was being felt in Aligarh itself. Accordingly, to obviate it, an independent Department of Theology was established there, and when Maulana Muhammad Qasim's son-in-law, Maulana Abdullah Ansari, was invited to head it, Darul Uloom promptly accepted this invitation. Maulana Abdullah Ansari graced this post till the end of his life and after him, his son, Maulana Ahmed Miya Ansari, was appointed on this post. He was also a graduate of Darul Uloom. It is, therefore, obvious that in case of opposition to the English system of education, this thing was not possible.

As regards those students who, after graduating from the Arabic schools, wished to enter government schools, Hazrat Maulana Nanautawi, in his speech delivered in a function of prize-distribution held in 1290/1873, had encouraged such students in the following words:

"If the students of this Madrasa join government schools to acquire the modern sciences, this acquirement would more shore up their accomplishment".

Replying to the objection of certain people as to why modern sciences were not included in the syllabus of Darul Uloom, he said:

"If this thought is a stumbling block that there is no arrangement here at all for the profane sciences, its answer firstly is that there ought to be treatment of the disease. To take medicine for a disease, which is not there, is futile. The crack in the wall should be filled up; it is necessary to fill the kiln. What is it but silliness to be anxious about the brick that has not yet fallen down? What are the government schools for? If the profane sciences are not taught there; what else is done there? Had these schools been less in number than what are required,' then it would not have mattered. But it is common knowledge that through the government's attention, towns and cities apart, schools have been opened even in villages. To make arrangement for the schools of secular sciences in their presence and be negligent towards the religious sciences is not the work of the longsighted wisdom".

In fact our ancestors did not feel any hesitation in adopting the arts and sciences of other nations even at that time when the flag of their greatness and power was flying over half the world. The Muslim in the past had not only adopted the philosophy of Aristotle and Plato and other Greek philosophers but had also become masters of the medical treasures of Hippo crates and Galen. Researches on Euclid and Ptolemy had become an interesting pastime of their lives. The Indian Arithmetic too had been cast in the Arabic mould. In this very way foundations were laid in the Arabic language of a new literature, history, philosophy and knowledge, medicine, arithmetic, astronomy, astrology, chemistry, physics and other arts and sciences, which are a proud wealth of culture and civilization of the world today. The Muslims adopted these sciences in such a way that instead of being felt strange they look Islamic sciences. In the acquirement of arts and sciences Muslims have always been very large-minded. Every student of history knows that the Muslims have not only learnt the arts and sciences of Greece and India' but have also developed and enlarged them.

It is an atrocious misunderstanding in respect of the Ulama; English education was never called impermissible and illegitimate. The Ulama were opposed rather to that culture only which was correl.1ted with the English education and which alone was being considered the singular means of advancement. It will be apposite here to see by pondering over this blame in the light of historical facts that its reality is. Exactly at the time, which coincided with the beginning of the late, Sir Sayyad Ahmed Khan's educational. Movement, a matchless divine of the time, Maulana Abdul Hayy Lakhnavi, who belonged to the old educational center of Hanafite jurisprudence at Farangi Mahal, Lucknow, had issued the following Fatwa regarding the English education:

"To study the English language or learn to write English is prohibited if it be for the sake of resemblance, but if the purpose be this that we may be able to read letters written in English or know the contents of their books, then it matters little. It says in the Mishkat Sharif that the Holy Prophet (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him!) ordered Hazrat Zaid bin Thabit to learn the Jews' script (Hebrew) and he learnt it in a few days".

In Hazrat Maulana Rasheed Ahmed Gangohi's Fatawa, in reply to a query regarding the learning and teaching of the English language, is written:

"It is correct to learn the English language, provided one does not commit a sin and there may be no impairment in religion.

In the early period of the East India Company Hazrat Shah Abdul Aziz Dehelvi's Fatwa too was to the same effect that "to learn the English language is permissible". In short the respected Ulama never opposed the English language in itself at any time. On the contrary, for the earning of livelihood and the acquirement of knowledge and information they explicitly issued a Fatwa of its legitimacy, even as' it is clearly evident from Hazrat Zaid bin Thabit's example in the prophetic era. However that form alone was declared impermissible through which, due to different reasons, the student's belief and faith were affected and which became the means of adopting un-Islamic culture, un-Islamic morals and anti Islamic beliefs.

The reality in fact is this that there were several reasons for the Muslims avoidance of the English language. The foremost reason was this that, on the one hand, there was intense bitter ness in the Muslims hearts against the aggressive English who had deprived them of ruler ship and empire; they (the Muslims) used to look at every thing of the English with aversion. The presence of inimical sentiments in the Muslim’s hearts regarding the Englishmen's culture, civilization and sciences was but natural. The Muslims had seen the lamp of the Mughal empire snuffed out before their own eyes; they had seen with their own eyes the spectacle of the royal family writhing in dust and blood; they had seen thousands of Muslims being put to the sword on very ordinary, flimsy suspicions, Thousands of Muslim families had been reduced to utter poverty (lit, were starving for want of even stale bread); and thousands of respectable families were wandering about aimlessly in a state of utter destitution and helplessness. They had seen the plunder and devastation of all those things, which they considered the ultimate product of morality and human culture and without which their life had become prosaic, and their glory' and honor had gone. They could not at all bear to give English education to their young children nor to have anything to do with the English. In that period the grave consequences of the mutiny and its reaction could not be psychologically overlooked. The struggle between Islam and Christianity that had been going on for centuries in' Europe and the Middle East had now, according to their thinking, reached India also. Hence this thing had become indelible in the Muslims' heart and mind that to tolerate Christianity and the Christian state would be detrimental to Islam and the Muslims. So, they decided to completely boycott this new culture and civilization and began to consider everything that was related to the English a portent of danger for Islam and the Muslim. It is evident that this kind of their thinking was a natural reaction of the circumstances, and for which, they should be considered excusable.
........The idea of the English was to make the Muslims educationally low and useless so that the vision of sovereignty and exaltation might get out of their heads. This wound had been inflicted so deep that it was not going to be healed in a few days.

At the same time the padres in India were not only allowed to preach Christianity but had also had the backing of the officials. The teachers in the schools and colleges used to be largely padres, and lessons of the Bible were compulsory. The Ulama alone were not opposed to this thing but even the commonest Muslim, under such circumstances, was not prepared to send his children to the schools.

Maulana Fazl-e-Haq Khairabadi who had been sentenced for life and transported to Andaman-Nicobar Islands for the guilt of issuing a Fatwa of jihad of 1857, writes:

"The English prepared a scheme to Christianize all the Indian inhabitants. It was their belief that the Indians would not be able to find any helper and cooperator, and therefore save submit and obey, they would not have the nerve to defy them. The English had thoroughly realized that the ruler’s variance from the ruled on the basis of religion would be a great stumbling block in the way of domination and possession. Hence they began to indulge in all sorts of wiles and chicanery with complete diligence and assiduity, in their willful attempt to obliterate religion and the sense of nationhood. To teach small children and the ignorant and to inculcate their language and religion, they established schools in towns and villages and made an all out effort to wipe out the old sciences and academic attainments".

Formerly the government used to be an institution, mainly concerned with administration of the country army police revenue and finances.

Most of the walks of life were out of its circle of activity and gamut. The people of the country used to be free in their educational system culture and civilization, morals and social life, as a result of which it was not necessary that with the change of sovereignty change might come in education and culture also. But the frame of the British system of government was different from this; its circle of operation circumscribed the whole life of the country and the nation and its jurisdiction covered all the walks of life. English culture and English education had become correlative and these alone were considered the means of advancement and civility. The Ulama were against this thing only.

In the Muslim’s avoidance of the modern education there was indeed some interference of the will and intention of English politics so that the Muslims might not remain able to rule, and secondly, the Muslims themselves for fear of irreligion, hesitated in admitting their children to schools.

These were the causes that obstructed the Muslims' going to schools and colleges. Accordingly, when the padres activities cooled down due to their own continuous failures and the teaching of the Bible was excluded from the school course, and at the same time, as time passed on, the Muslims' aversion against the English and English education gradually naturally subsided in the Muslims' hearts, they began to incline towards English education.

This is the reality of that blame which kept the Muslims away from the English education. In fact aversion to English education was the result of the Muslims' national sense of honor and psychological reaction, and the. Ulama too were included among them. However, the Ulama recognized the spirit of the age and with full insight and foresight never avoided issuing Fatwa for the legitimacy of taking English education.

End quote

darululoom-deoband.com/english/sys_of_edu/index4.htm
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2018 20:41
Thread not working, previous post not posted
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2018 09:05
Large quote code removed to fix crashing of thread.
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 9th April 2018 23:26
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 10th April 2018 07:02
Is that the price? 1475.00 SAR!

I have no idea what the going rates are for a concert, but if that is the price, then they are going to make trillions to cover their income loss from oil.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 10th April 2018 07:22
With SAR 1500. We would have saved emaan of at least 2 people. And that would have been; Dancing in jannah.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 10th April 2018 08:08
Saudi Gazette report

Paris — Saudi Arabia is to use French expertise to set up a national opera and orchestra under an agreement signed here on Monday.

“Today an agreement was signed with the Paris Opera to help Saudi Arabia set up a national orchestra and an opera,” French Culture Minister Françoise Nyssen announced after talks with her Saudi counterpart Awwad Al-Awwad.

The deal will see the Paris opera company help the Kingdom produce its own classical music and shows.
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