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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2014 20:59
Can Br. Muadh please list some things that are wrong with "American Muslims/Islam" so that we can all reflect on them.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2014 21:10
Please only post relevant issues to the current topic, otherwise please start a new topic. Jazakumullah

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2014 22:18
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 24th November 2014 10:48

True Life wrote:
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This is indeed a very factual and insightful discussion, Masha’Allah and can’t be disagreed with.

Yes we have a problem and in my discussions with Americans they also realise that there are issues with “American Islam” but from their perspective they are fighting a battle for survival so everybody is simply trying their best. American Muslims are under huge pressure and I don’t see many American Muslim (leaders) who have the strength of Eemaan to withstand the pressure (absorb it) and bounce back so they keep caving in!

Nobody in their right mind agrees with American Islam but in their battle of survival they are clearly struggling and like a man sinking just flapping around to stay afloat.

The Deobandees (in America & Britain) have ONLY ONE strategy which is to become insular and form islands (ghettos); they have nothing to offer to anyone. Those who are deemed to be “forward thinking” amongst Deobandees are causing devastation for our future generations; this weekend (in Walsall, UK) Yvonne Ridley was invited alongside Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) to a women event (fully segregated) and those who know about the behaviour of Sister (Yvonne) Ridley are very concerned as she is neither knowledgeable, nor very Sunnah inclined (or compliant). It is a TRAVESTY to have our Sisters exposed to NO ONE for years and then Yvonne Ridley.

Yvonne Ridley appearing alongside Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) in a Women Khatm-e-Bukahri conference gives her massive credibility amongst Deobandees in the Midlands since most of our Brothers & Sisters don’t (or won’t) think for themselves and will just give her respectability just because whom she appeared  with and at which occasion.

Forget just America, we got problems everywhere...

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 24th November 2014 18:10
Bismillah.

The Muslims in Europe have faced a never ending onslaught of hatred and discrimination for decades. Largely because these countries have always seen Islam as the major enemy for over a millenia and these countries, and this has been reflected in both the policies and the literature of the west since the crusades. Secondly the Muslims who immigrated to Europe ended up in countries who were former colonial rulers of Muslim countries. So the native populations of these European countries always had a sense of cultural superiority towards the Muslims, the Muslims have always had a sense of defiance towards the propoganda dished out by the former colonial masters.

Whilst on the other side of the Atlantic, the muslims in America/Canada were more accepted and they fully threw themselves into the cultural melting pot, those called Muhammad became Mo, the Dawuds became Dave and the Fatimas called themselves Tima. Post 9/11 when they where faced with a sudden mass of discrimination it was very new for many of them, so they went into panic mode and assumed the role of apologists. Hence the arrival of "American Islam".

I think the Deobandi " insularism" will in twenty years will be seen as a blessing, and one of the last fortresses against the onslaught of modernism and American Islam.

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 24th November 2014 20:11
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Reminded of something I read while searching for info on depression...


Muslims in America, post 9/11

Americans’ acceptance of Muslims has continued to deteriorate since 9/11, research finds, and Muslim Americans have responded with resilience but also depression and anxiety.

Quote:
Amer and other researchers are examining the impact 9/11 and its aftermath have had on Muslim Americans' well-being. What they've found is anxiety, depression and even post-traumatic stress disorder among a population some call doubly traumatized—first by the attacks themselves and then by the finger-pointing that followed. But they've also found effective coping and resilience, especially among young Muslim Americans.





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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 25th November 2014 09:52

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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What you forget is that movement of Darul-uloom Deoband was in direct response to Colonial rule and they were most certainly NOT INSULAR.

They led the masses from the front and this is the history of Deoband. Ulama need to lead.

 

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 25th November 2014 12:03
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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As I understood the brother's post, he was trying to indicate by the "" that Deobandi line is regarded by critics as "insular" but will be regarded as a blessing in the near future.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 25th November 2014 12:50
True Life wrote:
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Bismillah.

Precisely.

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 25th November 2014 13:13
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It depends on what you mean by lead from the front?
And I think comparisons with British India are mis-leading, the British were an unpopular colonial ruler at that time. Whilst today Muslims living in Britain are an unpopular and vilified minority. Whats-more it was a totally different era, radio was in its infancy and accesible to only a few, print media, was yet to become a powerhouse, and it was before the TV and internet age. Essentially it was prior to the media age.

The Social scientists had only just really starting looking at how to control , influence, and manipulate human behaviour. The Art of Psychological warfare and manipulation of human behaviour were fairly new sciences.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 26th November 2014 20:14

[QUOTE=Abdur Rahman ibn Awf]

It depends on what you mean by lead from the front?

[/QUOTE]

It means leading from the front and providing guidance to Muslims in terms of challenges (of the time).  

Today our Islam (Eemaan) and our values are being challenged; very similar to what was happening around a 100 years ago.

Ulama of that time familiarised themselves with tools of communication of that time and utilised them effectively. Ulama of that time kept abreast of the people (informed of their social needs and developments) and were able to relate and communicate.

Today there is no guidance, no leadership (from the Deobandi) Ulama at all. What are we supposed to do with all the Madrasah/Islamic School curriculum amendments coming down the pipeline, this is one area which is closely linked to the “work” which supposedly occupies the time of these Ulama.

If in the age of media the Ulama have lagged behind then whose fault is it?

There are others who are challenging and trying their best to challenge Modernism, Atheism, Apostasy etc but our (Deobandi) Ulama are mostly still restricted to Taqleed (Shaksi) and Tassawuff and that’s about it. If you hear the Bayans, read the book you would think that the biggest calamity facing is abandoning Madhabs and not making Bay’t to a Shaykh.

What I meant is that Ulama have been familiar with the “British” for over a century then why is it after over a century of contact there is no effective Dawah or approach to these people from (Deobandees)…Heck! There isn’t even any communication…

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 26th November 2014 21:46
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Do any group or scholars beside Deobandis have a solution or course countering this trend? Maybe we can learn from them...

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2014 11:22
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This is an interesting discussion. Firstly the american Muslims are and will never be our role models at least in their present state. In the whole of the non-muslim world I would say the British minority is doing well. Now it is about moving it to the next level. The issue is what kind of leadership do people want? I would think that leadership is less important as if we have leaders they will be under enormous pressure. Look at the MCB. They had some form of leadership then bang media onslaught. At the same time I think that we talk too much. Everybody should do their little part. I mean talking about myself I do zilch so who am I to complain? I can't even join the tablighis for weekly ghust and I want to rectify their affairs? So the first step would be to actually join something productive. If that is maybe just helping some kids with some free maths tuition, or doing what daywalker does with his community stuff, or just paying your membership fee and attending the general meeting and voting in the best person to the masjid committee. Each person has his own role. With regards to being insular history has shown us this is not the way to behave as a minority. The experience of other minorities like the jews who were/are despised and expelled is infront of us. We need to interact with Non-Muslims in a positive manner. All in all it is complex and far beyond me. Let me start with ghust and trying to influence my local area first inshallah. We should start locally but vision should be global.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2014 15:39
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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What precise concrete and practical steps do you advocate, that you believe will be effective?


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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 27th November 2014 16:26
london786 wrote:
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Bismillah.

The Buzz words twenty years ago was that muslims need to be more pro-active, we need to engage the media. We need to be involved in social projects, we need to be politically active etc. The MCB as an organisation seemed to be effective for a while, until the media and political establishment turned on them. Incidentally years ago here in Birmingham were I live, we had some Brothers
linked to Jammat e Islami, who managed to get a temporary licence for Radio Ramadhan at the time Radio Ramadhan was a major thing. And every year in Ramadhan they would be highlighting issues that Muslims should be involved in, from lobbying the advertising agencies concerning Pornographic bill boards, to Palestine/ Iraq/Kashmir, setting drug/rehab centres, domestic violence refuges, muslims getting involved in Dawah projects, and Muslims being involved as School Governors and many other issues.

Anyways, when I first heard about the Birmingham Schools Witch hunt/scandal last year, reading the story two of the very Brothers who had been very pro-active and had been at the forefront of Radio Ramadhan back in the mid 1990's, where amongst the school governors targetted by the Media witch hunt.

The times we are living are very confusing.
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