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Historic day in Turkey ***SCARF UNBANNED***

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd October 2013 14:35

PM introduces landmark reforms, but admits more needs to be done

 

The most important reforms include removing restrictions on the wearing of Islamic headscarves; providing for education in mother tongue; the restoration of original names of villages, districts and provinces that existed before 1980; sweeping changes in the law on political parties, including the possibility of lowering the 10 percent electoral threshold for entering Parliament; improving freedom of assembly; and other more specific rights for religious and ethnic minorities.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd October 2013 15:49
Alhamdulillah, insha'Allah more will be done.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd October 2013 16:30

Acacia wrote:
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Sister,

Is Millî Görüş strong in Canada?

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd October 2013 16:44
The best place to look/ask would probably be Toronto - and I have no clue what's going on in the Turkish community there.

Actually, I don't know what's going on in any Turkish community in Canada as I am not involved with the community much. What I do know is that the Gulen movement is at work in Canada though, like other efforts within the Turkish community, I am distant from that too.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd October 2013 17:05

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In my limited and superificial observation I have found Millî Görüş to be more Sunnah compliant then Gülen movement. Then Mureeds of Mahmud Efendi seem to be more Sunnah compliant then Millî Görüş. I have had limited contact with Millî Görüş brothers and sisters during Euro-Sunni and they seem to be nice people Masha'Allah with good Adab.

Since I am not Turkish and can’t read it (properly) although I can understand bits of spoken Turkish (due to similar root words with Persian and Urdu) I don’t understand as to how the Fiqh of Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) got so diluted even amongst the Modern day practising Turks? Had many interesting conversations with Turkish Ulamah over the years and they are either taught limited and selective Hanafi Fiqh or they selectively don’t discuss certain aspects of Hanafi Fiqh.

Turkish brothers and sisters keep talking about İlm-i hal but surely they learn more then that in 7 years?

Do you know what is taught by Diyanet İşleri Başkanlığı in their Madaris? I would be most appreciative if you can post some links as to what is actually taught to students?

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd October 2013 17:22
Yes, I've read good things about Mahmud Efendi masha'Allah but I can't claim to know much, nor have I come in contact (personally) with any sister who may be a mureed of Mahmud Efendi or with anyone belonging to Milli Gorus. I am much more open to it than I am to the Gulen movement.

Sorry brother, I never attended a madrasah - neither here (in Canada) nor there (in Turkey). Of all the Turkish people I grew up knowing, none were ever educated in a madrasah (as far as I'm aware).

Insha'Allah if it will be helpful in any way, I will do my best to try to help research this, obtain information and post it here insha'Allah - though you must understand this will take time. Insha'Allah this will be beneficial for me as well, alhamdulillah.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd October 2013 17:29
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd October 2013 17:39
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 4th October 2013 07:35
Have you read through this thread on SF?
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 4th October 2013 07:48
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As far as I know, there are imam-hatip high-schools (3 years) and then there is faculty of 'ilahiyat' at the post-secondary level... so, what exactly do you mean by "7 years?" I don't know of any (official) madrasah system and even imam-hatip and ilahyiat aren't considered madrasah. The way I understand it, the system is very different from Darul Uloom and other similar madaris. Also, I recall listening to a lecture where it was mentioned that studies used to be much longer than they are today but curriculum was re-written to cover subjects in a shorter amount of time... is that the "7 years" you mention?
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 4th October 2013 08:04

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Asslamo Allaikum Sister,

Will review all the valuable information provided, Insha'Allah. Someone was offered a place at a teaching place (lets call it Madrasa) under Diyanet İşleri Başkanlığı in Istanbul and it was 7 years but I might be wrong in recalling the number of years taught.

I have glanced through the documents and I will check later in detail but seems to list subject areas but not the books which are taught? Any ideas as to which classical books they teach?

I have heard that the standard of Secular education in many İmam Hatip school is actually very good and many Turks want to send their children in these Schools? Is that accuarte?

Jazakallahu Khayran

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 4th October 2013 15:03
7 years of education in IHS
Though a bit dated, in this article, the author notes:

Quote:
The IHS, which has both junior and senior divisions, corresponds to the secondary level of education. As is the case in all secondary schools, the junior division (three years) is open to elementary school graduates. Having completed the junior level, students advance to the senior division (a four year program). An extra year beyond the regular high school (three years) is added in order to accommodate for the time spent on vocational training and the slightly reduced academic load. Over the four years of IHS senior high school, then, there are more hours of instruction. In general, the same courses are offered at both the junior and senior levels as those given in all state secondary schools. The same textbooks are required for the various academic subjects, as well. The IHS curriculum, however, includes additional religious subjects.

Because the academic program is virtually the same as the regular junior and senior and high schools, students transfer between the IHS and other secondary schools during the different levels of study. (A small number of students who transfer to the regular high schools are not comfortable with the IHS lifestyle.) Regular senior high schools offer a much better preparation than the IHS for the university entrance exams. This is because the school day in the IHS is divided between religious and academic subjects; the vocational subject matter is not included in the entrance examinations.

Transfers into the IHS required passing qualifying examinations in religious subjects. Students who availed themselves of this option were generally dissatisfied with the nature of secularist education and were highly committed to pursuing their education and were highly committed to pursuing their education in religious schools. These students were always welcomed by the IHS student body.

All IHSs became senior high schools offering four years of instruction as a result of the August 4, 1971, decision of Talim Terbiye Dairesi Başkanlığı (the Directorate of Education and Training). Students entered the IHS after completing the regular junior high school program (see chapter three). The three-year junior division of the IHS was eliminated. The new curriculum considerably reduced the vocational courses in the surviving senior division of the IHS, directly affecting the quality of vocational education provided in the IHS. This situation caused a decline students' interest, and for the first time, a decrease in the number of incoming junior high students was observed from 1972 to 1974.

As a result of political changes after the military intervention of 1971, two decisions of Education and Training had a positive effect on the future of the IHS. The first decisions (number 632, November 28, 1975), recognised the IHSs equivalency to the regular high school. IHS diplomas since then have read, "Senior High and the Imam-Hatip School." Consequently, IHS graduates became eligible for admission to the national universities. The second decision (number 394, August 25, 1974) introduced Qur'an, Arabic language, and religion courses into the junior high curriculum. Thus, the IHS junior high division was reinstated and IHS education was once again a seven year program.



That was then... now, it seems IHS is now either 3 or 4 years - I'm unsure which it is.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 4th October 2013 15:13
[Brother, you can ignore these posts/readings; I'm just mapping some information that currently available out there on this topic. Insha'Allah, the best and easiest solution would be to pose the question to Dinayet directly... I'll see if a direct question to Dinayet via e-mail will produce a concise answer, at least in terms of what is taught today.]
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 4th October 2013 15:34
On the popularity of IHS, going by what information is available out there, it seems it has been up-and-down over the years. Popularity was down when AKP came into power in 2002 and perhaps it has gone back up since then. 3 major factors seem to have influenced its popularity over the years:
  • number of years of mandatory schooling and whether or not students can enter and study in IHS from junior high through highschool (7 years);
  • opening the doors to female students; and
  • ease of entry into various post-secondary institutions - this is connected to its changing classification as a 'vocational school.'


All that said, IHS was never a fully/truly "popular" option - anything that deviates even a smidge from main-stream is viewed as deficient and/or corrupting.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 4th October 2013 16:07
An interesting read. The interview with Ali Köse was shared with me a few days ago (in Turkish) - not sure if there is an English translation out there, will try to hunt it down. Without revealing my personal opinions, I would be interested in what MS'ers think?

update: sorry, no luck finding an English translation of the interview and just don't have the time to translate something like this at the moment... I guess I won't know what MS'ers think unless they know Turkish.

[spoiler=Gülden Aydın's (Turkish) article based on her interview with Prof. Köse]Ortadoğulu bir Türkiye görmek istemiyorum
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