Saudi Arabia Announces Ramadhan & Eid dates

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#61 [Permalink] Posted on 9th August 2012 17:00

"abu safwan" wrote:

assalamu alaykum does anyone when south afica started their ramadan..

W-Salam,

Jamiatul-Ulama South Africa Ramadhaan start on Saturday 21st of July 2012:

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http://www.central-mosque.com/

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#62 [Permalink] Posted on 13th August 2012 01:01

Although these pics are from 29th Ramdhan last year, it just shows the sheer numbers who actively try to sight the helal in South Africa. These are pics of just one place (cape Town) in South Africa. The sender added this is his email and captions last year: "please see the pictures I have added to the photo section of the group. They are breath taking, seeing thousands of people gathered in South Africa looking for the crescent" (in email) & "Description: Every year on the 29th day of Ramadan the community in Cape Town, South Africa, comes out to Seapoint on the beachfront to break their fast, make maghrib in jamaat and search for the new moon which will indicate the following day being Eid-ul-fitr." (in caption)

ive emailed the brother who sent these last year as well as the ICOP and MCW Member there to try take some pics this coming Sat evening also when its also their 29th Ramdhan, BUT to take them after Magrib when the actual sighting attempt is (as the above pics are just showing Magrib salaah BEFORE the attempt)

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#63 [Permalink] Posted on 17th August 2012 17:45

Muadh_Khan wrote:

Lets hope (and make dua) that the Saudees contradict themselves and don't follow these dates but history tells us otherwise!

Alhamdullillah

Shawal moon not sighted in Saudi Arabia; Eid to be celebrated on Sunday
By Staff

Published Friday, August 17, 2012

Muslims in Saudi Arabia will celebrate Eid Al Fitr on Sunday as Shawal moon has not been sighted in the kingdom, reports said.

A noted UAE astronomer had predicted last week that Eid Al Fitr will fall on Sunday 19th August.

Astronomy researcher and General Superviser of the Sharjah Planetarium Ibrahim Jarwan insisted that calculations showed that the crescent moon marking the beginning of the month of Shawwal will rise on Friday 17th August at 7.54pm. As the moonrise takes place 65 minutes after the sunset on that day, it will be impossible to see it because it will not be there on the horizon.

The ideal time to watch the crescent moon ranges between 10 to 30 minutes after the sunset on a day, explained Al Jarwan.

Thus Saturday will be the 30th day that completes the month of Ramadan, and the crescent will be visible on the horizon 17 minutes after the sunset, he added.

If Eid Al Fitr falls on Sunday, people in the UAE will enjoy a 5-day Eid holiday starting from Friday and ending on Tuesday. Work will, then, resume on Wednesday.

Authorities in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Oman have already declared 10-day Eid holidays.

Muslims in other Gulf Arab countries are still waiting for announcement from their respective moon sighting committees. Most of Arab countries celebrate Eid on the same day.

Eid in Pakistan

But Pakistani media reports said that Shawal moon has been sighted in Pakistani cities bordering Afghanistan and the Muslims there will celebrate Eid tomorrow.

Reports said that Muslims in Miran Shah and North Waziristan will celebrate Eid tomorrow after authorities declared Eid tomorrow in those areas.

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#64 [Permalink] Posted on 17th August 2012 18:13

Quote:

Eid in Pakistan

But Pakistani media reports said that Shawal moon has been sighted in Pakistani cities bordering Afghanistan and the Muslims there will celebrate Eid tomorrow.

Reports said that Muslims in Miran Shah and North Waziristan will celebrate Eid tomorrow after authorities declared Eid tomorrow in those areas.

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Is this for real. It's not possible!

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#65 [Permalink] Posted on 17th August 2012 18:16

Quote:

A noted UAE astronomer had predicted last week that Eid Al Fitr will fall on Sunday 19th August.

Yeh right, these dates have been around for more than 20 years.

The Saudi calendar is fixed.

Take a look here, you can book your eid holidays in advance until 2029 A.D.

2012-08-14_19-56-47.jpg

Downloads: 107

[159.66 kB] ummul qura calendar 1999-2029AD

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#66 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2012 01:46

abu mohammed wrote:

Is this for real. It's not possible!

According to the Majlis Ulama Logic and astronomy may not be used to refute, negate or discredit the testimony of an aadil man on the issue of Rooyat-e-Hilaal. Since this is a Mansoos rule, there is no scope for its abrogation nor for rejection on the basis of opinion, logic and astronomy.

they also say in another place

If aadil witnesses testify to their personal sighting and all Shar'i conditions regarding numbers of sighters
for different occasions are fulfilled, then it will be Waajib to accept their testimony even if astronomy says
that the sighting is impossible and even if the sighters are unable to answer the astronomical
paraphernalia related to the hilaal.

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#67 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2012 01:49

Jazakallah for the reminder, I remember reading that some time back. But sometimes when month ends on 27 or 28 days, surely somethings not rite.

Khair, Jazakallah for the reminder.

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#68 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2012 02:22

some recent info i recently read

The second reason is that in Saudi Arabia, the fiqh of Imam Ahmad Ibn Hambal RA is followed, the testimony of one
person for Ramadhan and two people for Eid is sufficient. Whereas in the Fiqh of Imam Abu Hanifa RA, when the
skies are clear, testimony of a large group is essential. Even then it is easy to save our selves from the difference of
opinion, as when the Hambali Qadhi has accepted a testimony the Ahnaaf can also accept it, but to accept a
testimony going against reality and logic (Khilaaf e Zaahir) is difficult. The other point is that majority of the people
are unaware of the details of the testimony received. As there is a monarchy there, to acquire details of the
witnesses or testimonies is very difficult. Rather, just about impossible. Do not think that the Saudi sighting is always
wrong, rather in the eyes of the Ulama it is not very trustworthy...' (Fatawa Darul Zakaria Vol 3 Pg 259)

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#69 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2012 02:24

Interesting new Fatwa on Moonsighting : Ask Imam Fatwah (No.16974 )
Question

If a moon is sighted in place A, what is the maximum distance for which this sighting is
valid according to the Hanafi Madhab. Please could you state the view of the Imam and
his two famous students.
Answer

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatuh
According to the madhab of Imam Abu Hanifa (Rahmatullah Alayhi), the preferred
view is that the different horizons (ikhtilaf matali') are not taken into consideration.
Therefore, there is no maximum distance for the validity of the crescent sighting. If the
crescent is sighted in one country then it is acceptable in another, no matter what the
distance may be between the two. However, this is only valid with certain conditions
and if certain procedures are followed.
If a country or location is unable to sight the crescent moon due to overcast skies, then
the sighting of another country or location will be accepted only if the information is
relayed through one of the following four methods:
1) Shahadat 'alar Ru'yah (الرؤية على شھادة) - two males, or one male and two females
bear testimony that they have sighted the moon in their community or country, using the
words أشھد, or the equivalent in their local language.
2) Shahadat 'ala Shahadat (الشھادة على شھادة) - two sane, mature Muslims bear witness
that two sane, mature Muslims bore witness in front of them that they have sighted the
crescent.
3) Shahadat 'alal Qadha شھادة على (القضاء) - two sane, mature Muslims from another
community or country bear witness that an official declaration was made by the
muqtada (the leading scholars of the community) that the crescent has been sighted.
4) Tawatur wa Istifadhah (استفاضة و تواتر) - many people from another community or
country inform that the crescent has been sighted in their community or country; and
the muqtada of the community or country are convinced that the crescent has been
sighted in that community or country based on tawatur and istifadhah.
It is also important to note that if the crescent moon cannot be sighted in a location due
to overcast skies, then it is not compulsory upon the people of that location to acquire
information from other communities or countries. However, if the crescent has been
sighted in another location and the information reaches a community which has not
sighted the moon, then it will be incumbent upon the muqtada of that location to accept
the news as long as the information is provided through one of the four abovementioned
methods.
If the information of sighting is not relayed by one of the four methods, the sighting will
not be regarded as valid.
Judging by the information that the different horizons are not taken into consideration in
the Hanafi madhab, it may seem as if it is permissible to follow the sighting of . This
would be acceptable if the proper method is used. However, it is a known fact that
shahadat bir ru'yah or shahadat 'ala shahadat are not the methods used in and their
decisions are based on a pre-calculated method. The Hadith commands us to start the
month of fasting after the actual sighting of the crescent, not mere calculations:
عن عبد ﷲ بن عمر رضى ﷲ عنھما أن رسول ﷲ صلى ﷲ عليه وسلم ذكر رمضان فقال � 8
تصوموا حتى تروا الھVل ، و8 تفطروا حتى تروه ، فإن غم عليكم فاقدروا له � . (رواه
البخارى)
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah ibn Umar (Radhiyallahu Anhuma) that
Nabi (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said, "Do not fast until you have seen the crescent (of
Ramadhan) and do not stop observing fasts until you have seen the crescent (of
Shawwal); and if the skies are overcast, then complete the month".
(Sahih al-Bukhari Vol.2 Pg.281 - Darul Fikr)
Due to the differences which exist in the present day Ummah, each country's muqtada
should make an independent decision based on the proper Shar'ee method.
May Allah Ta'ala give us guidance to follow all aspects of deen according to the
methods prescribed by Shariah.
( قوله : و8 عبرة باختVف المطالع ) فإذا رآه أھل بلدة ، ولم يره أھل بلدة أخرى وجب عليھم أن
يصوموا برؤية أولئك إذا ثبت عندھم بطريق موجب ، ويلزم أھل المشرق برؤية أھل المغرب
(Al Bahr Al Raiq Vol.2 Pg.270 - Maktabah Rasheediyah)
وإذا ثبت في مصر لزم سائر الناس فيلزم أھل المشرق برؤية أھل المغرب في ظاھر المذھب
(Fathul Qadeer Vol.2 Pg.243 - Maktabah Rasheediyah)
( واختVف المطالع ) ورؤيته نھارا قبل الزوال وبعده ( غير معتبر على ) ظاھر ( المذھب )
وعليه أكثر المشايخ وعليه الفتوى بحر عن الخVصة ( فيلزم أھل المشرق برؤية أھل المغرب )
إذا ثبت عندھم رؤية أولئك بطريق موجب كما مر ، وقال الزيلعي : اyشبه أنه يعتبر لكن قال
الكمال : اyخذ بظاھر الرواية أحوط .
وإنما الخVف في اعتبار اختVف المطالع بمعنى أنه ھل يجب على كل قوم اعتبار مطلعھم ، و8
يلزم أحد العمل بمطلع غيره أم 8 يعتبر اختVفھا بل يجب العمل باyسبق رؤية حتى لو رئي في
المشرق ليلة الجمعة ، وفي المغرب ليلة السبت وجب على أھل المغرب العمل بما رآه أھل
المشرق ، فقيل باyول واعتمده الزيلعي وصاحب الفيض ، وھو الصحيح عند الشافعية ؛ yن كل
قوم مخاطبون بما عندھم كما في أوقات الصVة ، وأيده في الدرر بما مر من عدم وجوب العشاء
والوتر على فاقد وقتھما وظاھر الرواية الثاني وھو المعتمد عندنا وعند المالكية والحنابلة لتعلق
الخطاب عمV بمطلق الرؤية في حديث

صوموا لرؤيته

بخVف أوقات الصلوات ، وتمام
تقريره في رسالتنا المذكورة .
(Raddul Muhtar Vol.2 Pg.393 - H.M. Sa'eed Company)
(Fatawa Rahimiyya, Vol.7 Pg. 210-230 - Darul Isha'at)And Allah knows best
Wassalam
Ml. Asif Umar,
Student Darul Iftaa
Checked and Approved (with following comments):
Alhamdulillah, the wifaq-ul-ulama of the [UK] and many other senior ulama of the
[UK] have agreed that following Saudi sighting is incorrect. A positive step has been
taken to rectify the wrong.

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In'aamiyyah

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#70 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2012 02:25

Why not remind us of Shaykh uthaymeens fatwa?

Taking that into reference, why do the salafi still follow Saudi?

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#71 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2012 02:29

Shaykh Saalih Al-Uthaymeen (RA):
Question: Because of some personal circumstances we moved to Pakistan,
where a lot of things are different, such as the time of prayer, etc. I want to ask you: I
am keen to fast on the day of 'Arafah, but the Hijri date in Pakistan is different from the
date in Saudi: when the date in Pakistan is the 8th of the month, it is the 9th in Saudi.
Should I fast on the 8th - which is the 9th in Saudi - or should I fast according to the
date in Pakistan?
Answer: Praise be to Allaah.
Shaykh Ibn 'Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked: what if the day of
'Arafah is different because of the moon being sighted at different times in different
countries? Should we fast according to the moon sighting in the country where we are
or according to the moon sighting in al-Haramayn (the two Holy Sanctuaries)?
He replied: This is based on a difference of opinion among the scholars: Is there only
one moon sighting for the whole world or does it vary according to when the moon
rises in different places?
The correct view is that it varies according to when the moon rises in different places.
For example, if the moon is sighted in Makkah, and today is the ninth, and it is sighted
elsewhere one day before Makkah, and the day of 'Arafah in Makkah is the tenth for
them, it is not permissible for them to fast on this day because it is Eid. Similarly if it so
happens that they sight the moon after Makkah, and the 9
th
in Makkah is the 8
th
for
them, then they should fast the day that is the 9
th
for them, which is the 10
th
in
Makkah. This is the correct view, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be
upon him) said: "When you see it (the new moon) fast and when you see it break your
fast." Those who did not see the moon in their own location have not seen it. Just as
people are unanimously agreed that the times for dawn and sunset vary according to
their own location, so too the months are also worked out by location, just like the daily
timings.
Majmoo' al-Fataawa, 20. Version 0.8 Page 28 of 38
And he (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about some people who worked in
the Saudi embassy in a foreign country, who said that they were having a problem
concerning the fast of Ramadaan and the fast on the day of 'Arafah. The brothers there
had split into three groups:
One group said: we will fast with Saudi and break the fast with Saudi.
Another group said: we will fast with the country where we are living and break the fast
with them.
The last group said: we will fast Ramadaan with the country where we are living, but
we will fast the day of 'Arafah with Saudi.
They asked the Shaykh to provide them with a detailed answer concerning the
Ramadaan fast and fasting the day of 'Arafah, whilst noting that for the past five years,
in the country where they were living neither Ramadaan nor the day of 'Arafah had
been observed on the same days as in Saudi; their Ramadaan started one or two days
after it had been announced in Saudi, and sometimes three days after.
He replied:
In the name of Allaah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) differed concerning the issue when the
moon is sighted in one part of the Muslim world and not in another: do all the Muslims
have to act on the basis of that, or only those who sighted it and the people who live in
the same region, or only those who sighted it and the people who live under the same
government? There are many different points of view.
The most correct view is that the matter should be referred to those who have
knowledge of it. If the moon rises at the same point for two countries they become like
one country, so if it is sighted in one of them that ruling applies to the other. But if the
rising points differ, then each country has its own ruling. This is the view favoured by
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him); this is the apparent
meaning of the texts of the Qur'aan and Sunnah and what is implied by analogy.
In the Qur'aan it says (interpretation of the meaning):
"So whoever of you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadan
i.e. is present at his home), he must observe Sawm (fasts) that month, and whoever is
ill or on a journey, the same number [of days which one did not observe Sawm (fasts)
must be made up] from other days. Allaah intends for you ease, and He does not want
to make things difficult for you. (He wants that you) must complete the same number
(of days), and that you must magnify Allaah [i.e. to say Takbeer (Allaahu Akbar: Allaah
is the Most Great)] for having guided you so that you may be grateful to Him"Version 0.8 Page 29 of 38
[al-Baqarah 2:185]
What is implied by this verse is that whoever does not see it is not obliged to fast.
In the Sunnah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "When
you see it (the new moon) then fast, and when you see it, break your fast." What is
implied by this hadeeth is that if we did not see it we are not obliged to fast or to break
the fast.
With regard to analogy, the times for starting and ending the fast each day should be
worked out in each country on its own, according to the local times of sunrise and
sunset. This is a point on which there is scholarly consensus. So you see the people in
east Asia starting their fast before the people of west Asia, and breaking their fast
before them, because dawn breaks for the former before the latter, and the sun sets for
the former before the latter.
Once this is established with regard to the times for starting and ending the daily fast, it
also applies to the start and end of the monthly fast. There is no difference between
them.
But if many regions come under the same government, and the ruler gives the
command for the fast to start or end, then his command must be followed, because this
is a matter of scholarly dispute but the command of the ruler dispels that dispute.
Based on the above, you should fast and break your fast along with the people of the
country where you are living, whether that is in accordance with your country of origin
or not. Similarly on the day of 'Arafah you should follow the country where you are
living.
Written by Muhammad al-Saalih al-'Uthaymeen, 28/8/1420 AH.
Majmoo' al-Fataawa, 19.

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#72 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2012 02:31

abu mohammed wrote:

Why not remind us of Shaykh uthaymeens fatwa?

Taking that into reference, why do the salafi still follow Saudi?

salafi

Isn't Shaykh Uthaymeen Hanbali and not salafi?

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#73 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2012 02:32

salafi above first was a typing error

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#74 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2012 02:36

Shaykh Uthaymeen was hanbali, but the salafi use him heavily.

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#75 [Permalink] Posted on 18th August 2012 17:13

Masha Allah good job

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Saudi Arabia Announces Ramadhan & Eid dates

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