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Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) on being Deobandi!

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#361 [Permalink] Posted on 31st January 2019 08:31
Coming to the main issue of this thread.

Should we call ourselves Deobandis?

This question is like the question : Should we be proud of being Muslims?
On the face of it both black and white answers would be right.
A1: I am proud to be a Muslim, why not?
A2: Pride is a grave sin and you should not indulge in pride.

So which option is the right one? But why can't both be right answers? Must life always be difficult?

So let us try to understand the context of this additional question. Pride is certainly forbidden but please do remember that at the time of the battle of Uhud (I might have to check it but it is not crucial) Rasoolallah SAW gave the spear or a sword to a chosen Sahabi RA who then walked with a haughty disposition between two rows of Sahaba RA. Rasoolallah SAW said that though pride is forbidden but in face of the enemy this is the right attitude.

So where does it take us in our original question whether we can call ourselves Deobandis?

I heard countless times in the Majlis of my Shaikh DB that Hazrat Thanwi RA's view was that three type of people could call themselves Deobandis. Those who were born in Deoband. Those who studied at Darul Uloom and finally those who follow Deoband's explanation of Islam.

Let me deal with a distraction here. KM Prabhakar (Kanhaiyyalal Misra) was a great man of letters in the Hindi language. In my Hindi course work I read a beautiful essay by him called Robert Nursing Home Mein (In Robert Nursing Home). This was a some hospital in the Indore town of Madhya Pradesh in central India. The essay is about the nursing staff there and one of the nurses, already called mother, was Mother Teresa. To cut the long background short Mr Prabhakar was born in Deoband. My text book did not tell us this bit of information. (Can you guess why?) But Mr Prabhakar, a Hindu, could legitimately call himself Deobandi.
Clearly this line of track has no relevance to the Deen.

Now we are left with the rest two. When Mufti Rafi Usmani Sahab DB telling his stories on this issue we have to take into account two issues. He is in UK and though he is talking about dissension among the Sunni Muslim sects being more there than even in Pakistan but the fact remains that there were people from other Masalik in the Majlis. When you have a mixed gathering then talk of unity must be the order of the day. That is the point number one.

The second point is that if Islam was finalized sometime in the month of June in 632 AC then why can there be any other islam, like Deobandi Islam?

Both of these points lead us to a very unmistakable conclusion that we eschew the Deoband identity.

This of course will not be satisfactory for some of my brothers and sisters for they will be left with the question why I called myself Deobandi?

That question is easy. Suppose I go to the meeting of the AIMPLB (All India Muslim Personal Law Board) (though I am not a member but I suppose I can certainly sit in the audience) the I shall be sitting there in my Deobandi mindset. Even the Ulama of Deoband on the dais will be with the same mindset. You can not give up that character. I am not Shia, I am not Barelwi and I am from Jama-at-e-Islami nor from Ahl-e-Hadith or Salafia. Indeed I am not at all ashamed of being a Deobandi. I simply do not agree with any other interpretation. I am too acutely aware of the differences that I have no option but to assure myself before Allah SWT that I do not subscribe to the versions pedaled by the other Masalik.

I have absolutely no sympathy with the actions of the Barelwis who have very diligently made a distinction from us in dress, Azan, Prayers and abuse our Jama-at, Ulama and Sufia.

I find Jama-at-e-Islami, Ahl-e-Hadith and Salafis not merely lacking spirituality but being obnoxiously anti-spiritual.

I am fine being Deobandi.

And that is true even if sometimes my Ulama can not defend themselves against the Salafi onslaught or the Barelwi aggression.
You do not become wrong just because you lack physical power or intellectual might. I am sorry it is not about physical power and intellectual might - both of these are God's blessings and not voluntary. It is about Taqwa and that is voluntary.

If there are people who are using their their physical powers or intellectual might against Deoband then please remember there are people who are using there physical power and intellectual might against Islam. You can name agencies doing that - both for physical power and intellectual might.

And then, the truth be told, we are winning on both fronts.

And all thanks are due to Allah SWT for that.
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#362 [Permalink] Posted on 31st January 2019 09:29

xs11ax wrote:
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In the case of Deen, I disagree.

If you are not passionate and emotional about the Allah Ta’ala, Nabi Muhammad (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassalllam) and his Deen then life is not worth living.

Look at the reactions on this forum, it is because the passion still burns in this Ummah and Alhumdolllah for it.


Maripat wrote:
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Hazrat Professor Saheb (HA),

You have misunderstood the issue. It is not a matter of being proud of being Muslim vs “Deobandi”.

It is a matter that there is no such thing as “Deobandi”, you cannot be something which does not exist.

  1. You can be Ashari
  2. You can be Maturidi
  3. You can be Sunni
  4. You can be Hanafi

Deoband never set aside a specific set of Aqaid or Fiqh which is distinct and separate from being Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat for a layman to be a “Deobandi”.

A graduate of a DU Deoband is “Deobandi” because of their Alma mater as someone can be an “Alig” but I am not an “Alig” because there is no sect called “Alig”

I can say that my professor is “Alig” or that I have great admiration for “Aligs” etc

For someone to be a “Deobandi” you need to come up with a definition of a “Deobandi”

  1. How are they different to Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat?
  2. What makes someone a “Deobandi” and then removes them from being “Deobandi”?
  3. When was this label adopted?
  4. How come NONE of the founders of DU Deoband called themselves “Deobandees”?

If a “Deobandi” is no different to being Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat then why come up a new label? Millions of believers belonged to “Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat” before 1866.

You cannot be something which does not exist.

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#363 [Permalink] Posted on 31st January 2019 13:40
Sunni, hanafi, maliki, shafi'i, hambali, ashari, maturudi etc all these terms were also unknown to sahaba ikram ra.

How loudly you scream ''I'm a Muslim. I'm not a deobandi'' it won't affect them, you aren't a true Muslim until you call your akabirin as kafir, barelvis will not accept you as a true Muslim ;and until you call ulama e deoband as deviant in aqida you aren't a true Muslim in the eyes of ahlehadith.
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#364 [Permalink] Posted on 31st January 2019 13:48

Arfatzafar wrote:
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I am extremely Sorry to say the same thing for the 5th time:

  1. Nobody is calling Deobandees Kaafir
  2. Nobody is calling Deobandees Faasiq/Faajir
  3. Nobody is calling Deobandees Deviants
  4. Nobody is saying that Salafees/Ahl-e-Hadeeth are on the right path

What part of numbers 1-4 is not clear for you in plain English despite saying it 5 times?


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#365 [Permalink] Posted on 31st January 2019 15:54
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Who said that you think them as kafir, fasiq, fajir etc....?

I'm saying different thing.

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#366 [Permalink] Posted on 31st January 2019 16:15
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#367 [Permalink] Posted on 31st January 2019 19:03
Why can't I choose an imaginary term for myself like Hadfakjdfhasd to make things easier for me and to identify myself with some certain set of beliefs? As long as I am not cursing others in public, why shouldn't I be allowed to use such an imaginary and un harmful term?
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#368 [Permalink] Posted on 31st January 2019 20:16

sipraomer wrote:
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 We live in a democracy so of course you have a choice:

  1. You can call yourself what Allah Ta’ala has called you and choose to call your association with what Allah Ta’ala has chosen for you.
  2. You can choose to ascribe yourself to a town in India or a term coined from 1866 (onwards)
  3. You can choose anything else of your choice.

Loading Qur'aan Verse

[3:19] Truly, the (recognized) religion in the sight of Allah is Islam . Those who have been given the Book did not differ (among themselves) until after the knowledge had come to them, (and all this) due to envy against each other. Whoever denies the verses of Allah, then, Allah is swift at reckoning.

Loading Qur'aan Verse

[22:78] Struggle for (seeking the pleasure of) Allah, a struggle that is owed to Him. He has chosen you and did not impose any hardship on you in the religion, the faith of your father Ibrahim. He (Allah) named you as Muslims earlier and also in this (Qur‗an), so that the Messenger becomes a witness to you, and you become witnesses to (other) people. So establish Salah, pay Zakah and hold fast to Allah. He is your patron. So, how excellent He is as a patron, and how excellent as a supporter!

You do have a choice.

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#369 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2019 02:11
Radical reform is needed for darul uloom Karachi as it's still labeled as ''deobandi university''. What steps mufti Rafi sahab is taking in this direction....?
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#370 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2019 02:15
sipraomer wrote:
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What is the logic behind it, bro ?
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#371 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2019 04:13
Arfatzafar wrote:
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Why can't I be illogical?

@Mr.Khan

Why can't I call myself two names. Muslim as well as xyz?
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#372 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2019 05:34
Arfatzafar wrote:
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Who calls it that? This is the first time I'm hearing this label. Usually people just refer to it as Darul Uloom Korangi.
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#373 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2019 05:58
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Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:

Hazrat Professor Saheb (HA),

You have misunderstood the issue. It is not a matter of being proud of being Muslim vs “Deobandi”.

It is a matter that there is no such thing as “Deobandi”, you cannot be something which does not exist.

You can be Ashari
You can be Maturidi
You can be Sunni
You can be Hanafi

Deoband never set aside a specific set of Aqaid or Fiqh which is distinct and separate from being Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat for a layman to be a “Deobandi”.

A graduate of a DU Deoband is “Deobandi” because of their Alma mater as someone can be an “Alig” but I am not an “Alig” because there is no sect called “Alig”

I can say that my professor is “Alig” or that I have great admiration for “Aligs” etc

For someone to be a “Deobandi” you need to come up with a definition of a “Deobandi”

How are they different to Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat?
What makes someone a “Deobandi” and then removes them from being “Deobandi”?
When was this label adopted?
How come NONE of the founders of DU Deoband called themselves “Deobandees”?

If a “Deobandi” is no different to being Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat then why come up a new label? Millions of believers belonged to “Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat” before 1866.

You cannot be something which does not exist.

I am convinced that there is a Deoband school of thought and out of the Revival-of-the-Islamic-Spirit movements is the closest to the truth in last 150 years.

I also testify that to the best of my knowledge this not a new twist, innovation or development in theology but merely a renewal in the sense of what our beloved Prophet SAW said about revival every hundred years of the Deen he brought.
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#374 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2019 06:36
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#375 [Permalink] Posted on 1st February 2019 08:43

sipraomer wrote:
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I sincerely apologise for answering the same question for you the second time.

You have total freedom to do anything you wish as you live in a free democracy. You wish to be called something other than what Allah Ta’ala has bestowed upon you, you have the choice.

You can call yourself 2 names, 3 names, 4 ½ names and any other combination which you deem to be appropriate.

Allah Ta’ala has chosen the religion of “Islam” for you and chosen the title of “Muslim” for you. You can do as you please.

P.S: I have started this response with an apology for supplying the same answer the second time. You can react by hitting “dislike” or asking the same question the 3rd, 4th and 5th time, it is your democratic right.

Maripat wrote:
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A revival of Islamic knowledge by the honourable Ulama from Deoband has NOTHING to do with a laymen labelling themselves as “Deobandi” as a separate and distinct identity.

These are two separate and distinct matters entirely.

None of the honourable Ulama labelled themselves as “Deobandi” or advised laymen to label themselves as such.

The simplest analogy is due to great achievements of graduate of Aligarh Muslim university every single Muslim starts labelling themselves as “Alig” and if you question the label “Alig” people start asking questions:

  1. Do you not see the achievements of Aligarh Muslim university?
  2. Do you not recognise the achievements of graduates of Aligarh Muslim university?
  3. Do you deny that such a university exists?

No brother, we are questioning the usage of the label “Alig” by laymen because it is not sanctioned by the university.

So in easier terms, there is not such identity distinct and separate called “Deobandi” in Islam as clearly explained and articulated by Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA).

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