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Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) on being Deobandi!

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#421 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 14:28

dr76 wrote:
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  1. You asked for 10 living major Ulama who are "Mamati"
  2. You got 10 living major Ulama who are "Mamati"

You are from the Aal of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) so cannot say anything else so I leave the matter to Allah Ta'ala.


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#422 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 16:07
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
Professor Saheb,

Are you a:

Deobandi Hanafi Hayati
Deobandi Hanafi Mamati

Group 1 is the original and on Haqq and according to them it is not Makrooh to pray behind group 2.

As a professor I am sure that you do understand where this is going. You decided to adopt a self prescribed label and Allah Ta’ala has torn apart that label in your lifetime in front of your eyes.

If you loved Tableeghi Jamaat, Allah Ta’ala has ripped it into two groups in your lifetime right in front of your eyes

If you loved DU Deoband, Allah Ta’ala has ripped it into two separate Darul-ulooms in your lifetime right in front of your eyes

This is what happens when people become sectarian and elitist and special. Allah Ta’ala bring down the arrogance of ego warriors :)

P.S: Not you personally you are not arrogant. You are just being a politician to appease others when Academically you know that this label has no basis (for laymen).


I am not a full professor, only an associate professor. So I do not know to whom this set of questions is addressed. Since labels have become a more serious affair than a mere convenient tool for identification this label of professor and associate professor too has become a serious issue.
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I am kidding.
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Whatever little time I had to ponder over the Hayati-Mamati issue I came to the realization that the safer route is to adopt the Hayati distinction.
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But coming back to the original Deobandi tag identification. You are forgetting that I am prepared to face all the consequences of my choice. Bring them in.

And you will face Allah SWT for killing my time on an issue that warrants no such vehemence or attention.

Neither the division of the Jama-at not that of the Dar-ul-Uloom ( and for record there was not one but two divisions - you missed creation of Dabhel) was because of the tag.

The caution that Mufti Rafi Usmani Sahab DB was sounding has been familiar to me and I fully agree with his concerns.

I too do not use the title Deobandi with my name. When I say that yes I am a Deobandi it simply means that I take my Deen from the Ulama of Deoband.

And please, please pay attention to what dr76 has said. When a brand becomes generic it certainly creates problems.

When Deoband becomes a sect it will create problems. To the best of my knowledge the Ulama of Deoband have no such assertion. That is what Mufti Sahab is emphasizing.

Cool down - we are not out to make Deoband a sect. In fact we are incapable of doing so. We take the Deen from the Ulama and not dictate to them.
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#423 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 16:14

Maripat wrote:
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Hazrat Assistant Professor Saheb,

There is a difference between:

  1. Being a Deobandi Hanafi Hayati
  2. Taking Deen from Ulama of Deoband

1 has no definition and it is just arbitrary connotation. The fact it has gone from “Hanafi” to “Deobandi Hanafi” to now “Deobandi Hanafi Hayati” tells you that it is made up and will keep on morphing itself.

2 is Taqleed which is a requirment of Qur'aan.

The astounding issue is that all these “pseudo Allamah Iqbal enthusiast” and “Keyboard khilafah warriors” have no issues with adopting a title from 1866. Whatever happened to?


I am but A SINGLE MUSLIM guarding over the Haram,
From the banks of the Nile to the deserts of Kashghar.

Not

  1. Deobandi Hanafi Hayati
  2. Deobandi Hanafi Hayati-Darul-uloom Deoband
  3. Deobandi Hanafi Hayati-Darul-uloom Deoband (Waqf)
  4. Deobandi Hanafi Hayati Tableeghi (Maulana Saad)
  5. Deobandi Hanafi Hayati Tableeghi (Aalami Shura)
  6. Deobandi Hanafi Mamati
  7. Deobandi Hanafi Panjpeeri
  8. Deobandi Hanafi Ishaa't-e-Tawheed-O-Sunnat
And I will only accept Mahdi if he is from my group
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#424 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 16:14
Can someone please post the beliefs of the Hayati. (Mamati has been explained) So we have a better understanding of the two differences.

Personally, I'm a Muslim following the Hanafi School in Fiqh and Follow the Aqeedah as expalined by Imam Tahaweeh - NOTHING MORE - NOTHING LESS.

If I'm asked which Hanafi, I say "Not Barelwi" (No one bothers about the other types)
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#425 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 16:15
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Please add a translation
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#426 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 16:23
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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So I should not call myself Deobandi-Hanafi-Hayati?
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#427 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 16:29
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Shayk, are these titles necessary. Most of the layman don't even know about the term hayati mamati. What are we discussing here?
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#428 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 16:33
hmdsalahuddin wrote:
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Khan Sahab has raised a turmoil on an issue that warranted nothing more than a post.

The rest is that part of life that we do not have to take seriously.

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#429 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 16:43
Is it really important though to defend the usage of this term, for those who do prefer to use it? How many times a day or week do you even use this to address yourself or your peers in real life? Is it really worth debating over?
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#430 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 16:57
@Abu Muhammed:

Quote:
If I'm asked which Hanafi, I say "Not Barelwi" (No one bothers about the other types)


A person in district Philibhit (UP) who was adhered to tabligi jamat died day before yesterday. There are only a few deobandis and they have only one masjid where they pray. In all other masajid they are not permitted to enter.

So all the relatives of the deceased, almost all of them are barelvis, prayed for his funeral prayer. Next day barelvi muftis issued a fatwa in bold letters that whoever participated in funeral prayer of deobandi wahabi their nikah is no more valid.

So far 55 nikah have been re-solemanized.

Note: You don't need to say you are not a deobandi they know your identity. If you are not a follower of maslak e aala hazrat, then obviously your a deobandi.
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#431 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 17:13
abu mohammed wrote:
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Alhamdulillah. You and I both. :)
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#432 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 17:42
Arfatzafar wrote:
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Perhaps that is the case in (parts of) the subcontinent.
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#433 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 17:52
Arfatzafar wrote:
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In my honest opinion, this is because in India, the Barelwi's believe that the Deobandi's beleive that the Prophet (saw) has died and turned to soil.

The reason for this belief is because they quote "our" Ulama and keeps copies of this book to prove their point.

I also know that they call TJ's 24ers (don't ask me why, this has been stuck in my brain ever since I was a kid and went to India and heard and saw all this with my own eyes)


it is a real shame to be honest.
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#434 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 17:58
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#435 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 18:47

Avish s/o Ravish wrote:
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Imagine a world where the Muslims of India thought:

We are all Muslims

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Instead of this, they think in terms of sectarian and division

Ulama of Deoband like Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) NEVER taught you to think in terms of Barelwee, Deobandees let alone  Deobandi Hanafi Hayati vs Deobandi Hanafi Mamati

When you are taught "Islam", you respond by saying that we need to distinguish between otherswho also claim to be "Hanafees".

When will you distinguish yourself from the 80% Hindus of your country? You are more worried about other Muslims then Hindus!

When the Hindus come to break your Mosques they do not care if you are a Barelwee or a Deobandi Hanafi Hayati

 
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