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Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) on being Deobandi!

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#406 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd February 2019 21:36

Read before moving forward!

  1. My whole discussion is about Part 1 of the video
  2. NEVER ONCE have I said that Ulama of Deoband started a new sect separate and distinct from Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat which is part 2 (refutation of the Jackass Engineer Mirza).

The whole discussion is about the label “Deobandi” and not eradicating “Deobandiyyat”

There are many many many many posts trying to explain the difference. This is precisely and exactly what Mufti Tariq Masood is saying below:

bint e aisha wrote:
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abu mohammed wrote:
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03FEB2019: "Deobandi" and "Deobandiyyat"?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_ynhMxSgtU


Part 1:

These people always refer to a title and they say, “MuftiTariq Masood Deobandi” so are we propagating a sect are you?

Why do you keep saying “Deobandi, Deobandi” at every step?

Hazrat Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA) is a well-known, trusted and ascholar of global pedigree and stature. His stature is of such magnitude thatShaykh Hudaifi (HA) has studied from him but he does not write “Deobandi” inhis name. He is a scholar of Hanafi Madhab.

Hazrat Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) states that once he wrote “Deobandi”next to his name, his father Mufti Shafi Usmani (HA) had it removed.

Have you seen a sign in front of my Mosque which states “HanafiDeobandi”? Jamia Masjid Al-Falahiyyah!

That’s it!

End of discussion!

The names of Mosques are so long that tails are elongated(by titles).

Thus, these people are infatuated and are caught bysectarianism. I have explained as to why Ulama are called “Deobandi” and I haveexplained in another video.

Part 2:

This respected brother has also stated in the thread thatUlama were called “Deobandi” from 1866 and they were something else beforethat. This is not the case they became known as “Deobandi” from 1866. We havebeen following the same Islam which came into India from the beginning, thesepeople became “Deobandi” in contrast to “Barelwee”. When the Aqaid and actionsof “Barelwees” deviated from Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat in order to differentiatethese people became known as “Deobandees”

This brother is claiming that before 1866 there were peoplelike us because these was no “Deoband” and after 1866 these people like “MuftiTariq Masood” emerged because there was not even a name like “Deoband”

A simpler example is that of “Mushaf-e-Usmani”, if someonesays that a manuscript by this name did not exist because it only came into existenceafter Usman (RA) and before that it was our Qur’aan then we will call it absurdand we will say that the same Qur’aan merely got compiled and known as “Mushaf-e-Usmani”

Thus if the curriculum of Deoband (in 1866) had deviatedfrom Qur’aan and Sunnah then at least a few people would have objected butnobody did. Where were you Engineer Saheb? Were your fore-fathers asleep?

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#407 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 07:27
sipraomer wrote:
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This reply on the issue under discussion captured the truth very well rather early in the thread.

Call your self Deobandi if you feel a very strong urge but life can go on without doing that.

And when I or any one else admits to be a Deobandi it simply means that we take Islam from the scholars of Deoband.

In particular it does not imply at all that we or the scholars forming a sect.

When Mufti Rafi Usmani Sahab DB was narrating the events from his father the spirit was the same - Deoband is not forming a sect.

To bring hair splitting into this matter is not a very positive step and serves only to create those very frictions that Mufti Sahab was trying to dissipate.

And we Muslims have a huge problem with at our hands due to the negative attention to us by the world. We better pay attention to those issues and spend our energies on that.

So the things to do are those that late Shaikh Ahmed Deedat did.
Or Dr Zakir Naik did.
Or late Dr Israr Ahmed did.
Or Dr Shabir Ally is doing.
Or Mehdi Hasan is doing - even if I do not agree with Shia theology.
Or what Mahathir Mohammed is known for.
Or what Erdugan has been identified with.

Of course what our Sufia and Ulama are doing is part of that.
So are the efforts of Maulana Tariq Jamil Sahab.
I am not angry Pir Zulfiqar Sahab too - of course I do not agree his Sulook in case of women.
I also accept Kalim Siddiqui Sahab as a genuine Dayee of Islam though I am not with him any more.

This debating with each other and wasting each other's energy is simple counter productive and and I am afraid that it might not carry any rewards in the hereafter.

That is why I accepted the attitude of those brothers who support Maulana Saad though I do not agree his stance in the least bit. I accepted that I can not do much in cooling down the Jama-at chaos. It was among most difficult decisions for me, a rather sobering experience. I accept the pain to live with a problem that I can not solve.

If I can work with Balewis and Salafis for Ummah then I can work with my own brothers and sisters.

I am happy to do that and honoured to do that.
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#408 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 08:29
abu mohammed wrote:
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I have never disagreed with what Mufti Sahab is saying in the video and my stance has always been the same. I do not go around introducing myself as 'bint e aisha Deobandi' and I agree, it is absurd to name a Masjid as Deobandi. From the first post I've only been saying that I follow Deobandi interpretation of Islam and I only say this when someone insists and specifically asks about my school of thought.

Also I trust Mufti Tariq Masood because he is a Deobandi, he has studied from a Deobandi madrasah and Deobandi Ulama have confidence in him.

And btw do you remember once you said you don't have any problem with it. Do you stick to your words or have you changed your stance?
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#409 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 08:32
bint e aisha wrote:
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I still don't have a problem with it because I know what I mean and when it's needed.

That's what others need to understand
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#410 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 10:49
Maripat wrote:
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السلام عليكم


Well summarized Sir..

In India Xerox became synonymous with photo copying and almost became a generic name.. the photocopy shops have boards of "Xerox" written over with NO Xerox machines at all.. These Photo Copy shops advertised their shops as Xerox..

So a Registered company over the time became a generic name for Photocopying..

Eventually the company had to file a lawsuit to prevent the brand being declared as a generic name..

India has a very vast Diaspora of cultures.. languages.. beliefs..

And when people from Deoband showed them the light of Aqaid when it was gloomy everywhere.. they confirmed their Aqaid with these ulema.. and called themselves as Deobandi.. simple..

Over the time it became like Xerox.. so until Darul uloom Deoband files a law suit to prevent its name being used by people.. it shall go on.. and thats me.. dr76 Shafi'i.. Deobandi.. ;-)

Colonel sahab can now bring on the howitzers.. :-)

duas..

wa Assalam..
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#411 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 10:56

bint e aisha wrote:
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Nobody usually has a problem with absurdity. People come across those who believe in Santa Claus so they just smile and walk away.

There is no such thing as a “Deobandi” from a layman’s perspective, Mufti Tariq Masood, Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) are all saying it LOUD & CLEAR, you are hearing it but you are not listening so you are not understanding.

  1. Mufti Tariq Saheb is a student of graduates of “Deoband”
  2. Mufti Rafi Usmani HA) is a born and raised (Ex) resident of “Deoband” and a student of graduates of “Deoband”

[admin edit: line removed against member]

The words are going into your ears in plain Urdu but then being resisted and STOPPED because it is against everything you have ever seen witnessed. 

Maripat wrote:
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Professor Saheb, 

Are you a:

  1. Deobandi Hanafi Hayati
  2. Deobandi Hanafi Mamati

Group 1 is the original and on Haqq and according to them it is not Makrooh to pray behind group 2.

As a professor I am sure that you do understand where this is going. You decided to adopt a self prescribed label and Allah Ta’ala has torn apart that label in your lifetime in front of your eyes.

If you loved Tableeghi Jamaat, Allah Ta’ala has ripped it into two groups in your lifetime right in front of your eyes

If you loved DU Deoband, Allah Ta’ala has ripped it into two separate Darul-ulooms in your lifetime right in front of your eyes

This is what happens when people become sectarian and elitist and special. Allah Ta’ala bring down the arrogance of ego warriors :)

P.S: Not you personally you are not arrogant. You are just being a politician to appease others when Academically you know that this label has no basis (for laymen).


dr76 wrote:
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Really simple answer...

Are you a:

  1. Deobandi Hanafi Hayati
  2. Deobandi Hanafi Mamati

Aqeedah division and very "serious one"

:lol

The same Aqeedah issue which led to the first label of "Deobandi" now needs to be refined again.

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#412 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 11:04
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Excuse my ingnorance, but how does a person becomes :

1. deobandi
2. deo-bandit

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#413 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 12:10

hmdsalahuddin wrote:
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Good question for the 4 people on the forum who are claiming to be "Deobandi"

:P

Asking me a question about laymen being a "Deobandi" is like me asking you, “How does one become a Woman?” . You are not a woman so how would you know?

The four Horsemen are awfully quiet since the Hayati vs Mamati debate, they were fine with a “Deobandi Hanafi” label but since then…Crickets

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#414 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 12:37
"Colonel Hardstone wrote:
Are you a:

Deobandi Hanafi Hayati
Deobandi Hanafi Mamati
Aqeedah division and very "serious one"


السلام عليكم

Thats like colonel sahab deliberately bringing a Dodo to a chicken fight.. :-)

Now bring me 10 names of well known Deobandi Mamatis you have come across (living).. who advertise themselves as Mamatis.. and we shall continue..

Or


Say u have issues with people calling themselves deobandi..which u already have.. and people tried explaining to u in best possible way.. which u arent willing to buy..

End of story..


duas..

wa Assalam..

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#415 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 13:18

dr76 wrote:
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Challenge from Dr76:

Now bring me 10 names of well known Deobandi Mamatis you have come across (living).. who advertise themselves as Mamatis.. and we shall continue..

They call themselves as "Deobandees",  it is the "Deobandees" who call them "Mamati"

Resposne:

  1.         Maulana Muhammad Tahir Tahiri (HA)
  2.         Mufti Hasib Zaman (HA)
  3.         Qari Razaullah Khan (HA)
  4.         Mubalig-e-Qur’aan Maulana Shah Nauman Paja (HA)
  5.         Maulana Abdul-Wakeel (HA)
  6.         Maulana Abdul Majid Makki (HA)
  7.         Maulana Ahmed Jamshaid Khan (HA)
  8.         Manazir-e-Islam Maulana Khizar Hayat Bakhrawi (HA)
  9.         Maulana Sirajul-Haq (HA)
  10.         Fazeelutus-Shaykh Maulana Abdul-Bari (HA)

Response to personal attack & allegation:

Not me personally! Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) has a problem with people calling themselves as “Deobandees”.



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#416 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 13:40
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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My post was directed towards abu mohammed, not towards any random person. [Rest of the post edited]
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#417 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 13:55
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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السلام عليكم

Sir.. i want 10 people who label themselves as Mamati.. since it was the dodo u brought here..

we have No issues with people who call themselves as deobandi.. whether they are from deoband or not.. since we know what they mean..

As long as Darul uloom Deoband does Not have a problem with people calling themselves as deobandi (as what they mean by it).. u may take rest.. :-)

wa Assalam..
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#418 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 13:58
@Muadh Khan:
Mamati / Hayati...?

Said:

''The four Horsemen are awfully quiet since the Hayati vs Mamati debate, they were fine with a “Deobandi Hanafi” label but since then… Crickets …''

Because we are riding on horse quietly. Let our horse gallop.
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#419 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 14:01
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread.
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#420 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2019 14:18
@bint e aisha:
said:

''And I don't care whatever Muadh_Khan believes in or whether he/she (whatever you are) agrees with me or not.''

You mean to say that ''he'' may be ''she'' because of his nature of a quarrelsome woman...?
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