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Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) on being Deobandi!

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#391 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd February 2019 10:26

Arfatzafar wrote:
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The answer to your question is in your question if you choose to think about it.

First of all, NOBODY in the history of Islam has EVER recognised the 4 Madhahib as sects or cults or distinguishing factors within Islam. Nevertheless, EVEN if you think of them as such they distinguishing factors i.e. a “Hanafi” is different to a “Shaf’ae” who is different to a “Hanbali”.

The question then becomes what is “Deobandi”? Where is this defined?

Secondly, you started with an arbitrary term to distinguish yourself so you name yourself “Deobandi” but now within the “Deobandi” you need to split and distinguish yourself and you have 3-4 groups

  1. Deobandi Hayati:
  2. Deobandi Mamati
  3. Deobandi PunjPeeri
  4. Deobandi (Tauheed-O-Sunnat)

Within Tableeghi Jamaat you have two groups so you now have:


  1. Deobandi Tableeghi Saadi
  2. Deobandi Tableeghi Aalami

This split has happened right in front of your eyes

Allah Ta’ala choose for you the religion of “Islam” and the title of “Muslim” but you are so engrossed in identity politics that you split it, then you split it and then you split it again.

Loading Qur'aan Verse

[3:103] And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

Loading Qur'aan Verse

[3:19] Truly, the (recognized) religion in the sight of Allah is Islam . Those who have been given the Book did not differ (among themselves) until after the knowledge had come to them, (and all this) due to envy against each other. Whoever denies the verses of Allah, then, Allah is swift at reckoning.

Loading Qur'aan Verse

[22:78] Struggle for (seeking the pleasure of) Allah, a struggle that is owed to Him. He has chosen you and did not impose any hardship on you in the religion, the faith of your father Ibrahim. He (Allah) named you as Muslims earlier and also in this (Qur‗an), so that the Messenger becomes a witness to you, and you become witnesses to (other) people. So establish Salah, pay Zakah and hold fast to Allah. He is your patron. So, how excellent He is as a patron, and how excellent as a supporter!

The Ashari/Maturidi divide is due to the need to counter heretical views, it is not something to be proud of. In other words, the Fitnah arose so you needed to split but NOBODY walked around introducing themselves as “Ashari/Maturidi”. The purpose of Ulama of Deoband was not to create a brand new identity IN FACT they went out of their way to keep saying that they are Ahslu-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat but you (laymen) have create a new cult called “Deobandi”

Then you became “Deobani Hanafi”

Now you have become “Deobandi Hanafi Hayati”

Where will this end?

In this whole discussion, understand this:

NOBODY IS DENYING THE ENORMOUS CONTRIBUTION OF THE ULAMA OF DEOBAND.

If you understood this just one line from the whole post (above), I have succeeded.

P.S:The problem is that you are all thinking that someone is abusing the Ulama of Deoband like Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) etc by this thread. Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) NEVER called himself a “Deobandi” by Aqeedah and NEVER advised any of his followers to call them “Deobandi”! If your purpose is to distinguish yourselves from Barelwees THEN he was alive and refuting Maulana Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwee (RA), he had a bigger need to call himself “Deobandi”, much more!

 
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#392 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd February 2019 16:05
@Muadh Khan:

No, you are evading from accepting the facts now.

4 madhabs, especially, hanafi madhab was accepted as a sect by mu'tazila (and this is why imam abu yusuf rh, imam muhammed rh and imam malik rh gave fatwa of their deviation and stopped people to pray behind them and accepting their shahadah). The same mentality still exist in form of neo-Mu’tazilism. Their Islamic theology is based on rationalism. Taqlid or sects is against their ideology.
They also quote the same and similar verses and ahadith to criticise hanafi madhab as your doing against 'deoband'. Obviously you are representing them, not against, hanafi madhab though. If they were wrong then you are also wrong.

whether or not majority of ummah considered 4 madhab as sects is not the issue, issue which I'm discussing is related to your claim that deobandi is a new term. hanafi, shafi'i, maliki, hambali etc are new terms as well. No, sane person can deny it.

Who are you..?

Hayati hanafi Muslim...?

Akabirin deoband didnot choose this label for themselves or for their followers, it's Ahmad Raza khan marhum who gave this title to them and their followers and called himself and his followers as 'true Sunni hanafi Muslim'.

Don't you understand this plain truth...?

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#393 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd February 2019 16:17
What is the difference between panjpiri and Hayati. I have seen YouTube video of panjpiris and they seem to stem from one of the areas in Pakistan.
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#394 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd February 2019 16:30
Rajab wrote:
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Pakistan is a Muslim country, why they aren't united...? Why it has so many off shoots...?
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#395 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd February 2019 19:23
Panjpiris are more Wahhabis than deobandis...

Like deoband,'panjpir' is also a small village near sawabi in KPK and they have the same right to object to this name as we have seen many objecting to the name deoband...

We commoners get confused because we are used to identifying people by their names.It makes perfect sense to us to know about a person or a group or a tribe or even an ideology by a certain name.We simply can't think in 'abstract'...

If I am asked about me,saying I am human won't suffice,I will be asked about 'my name' but then if they object that by giving myself a name I am being 'selfish' what would I do?....

Can you think of a world without 'names' and 'identities' ?

Names don't make us sectarian,'prejudice' and 'rejection of truth' does....

Why can't we direct our energies against prejudice,bigotry,bias,partisanship and undue partiality?

That seems more close to Islamic way of living a life.
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#396 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd February 2019 19:32

Arfatzafar wrote:
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I will answer all your questions again (although I have answered your points already) if you promise me four things:

  1. You will actually read and ask questions from a post if something is not clear and NOT MOVE FORWARD until each post is clearly understoodby you.
  2. You will not run away when I ask you questions AFTER I have answered yours
  3. I am not calling anyone deviant, misguided, Faasiq, Faajir, Gmurah or anything of that nature whatsoever whether someone calls themselves a Hanafi or Deobandi. Do you understand it? 
  4. I am not saying that calling someone Barelwees or Ahl-e-Hadeeth is correct. Do you understand it? 

Do you make a promise and answer the last two questions? Otherwise this discussion is over...

ALIF wrote:
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Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) disagrees with you so as Doctors say:

Next...

:P

And on the topic, here is Maulana Tahir Panjpiri (RA) in Pushto, does he sould like a Wahabi? Anyone does in Pushto :lol

Youtube Video

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#397 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd February 2019 03:09
@Muadh Khan:

Quote:
You will not run away when I ask you questions AFTER I have answered yours

Did ever I run away...?
Reality is otherwise.
Quote:
I am not calling anyone deviant, misguided, Faasiq, Faajir, Gmurah or anything of that nature whatsoever whether someone calls themselves a Hanafi or Deobandi. Do you understand it?

Did I say you think them deviants..?
Why you are repeating it again and again.

In one post I asked you whether or not you think deobandis as deviants, you replied 'NO,

then chapter closed. But you are still repeating the same.
Quote:
I am not saying that calling someone Barelwees or Ahl-e-Hadeeth is correct. Do you understand it?

Did I ask you to clarify it...?

Note: Do you understand all the above written...?

Now only One question I ask you. I don't want you to run away or beating about the bush.

Q: Don't you think that salaf didnot label themselves as hanafi, shafi'i, maliki, hambali...?

Yes or No..?
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#398 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd February 2019 05:11
When Mufti Rafi uthmani sb was warned by his father rh not to use this 'deobandi' label with his name, he was a young-man and now he is old. Why he waited for several decades to say this....?
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#399 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd February 2019 10:46
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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It is a wonderful bayan
جزاك الله خيرا
No one can disagree to it.
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#400 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd February 2019 10:56
Arfatzafar wrote:
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This is normal behaviour.

We get told many things in our youth by our parents and do we listen? Not always.

But when we grow older, we see ourselves saying the same things to our children, will they listen? Not always. And the cycle continues.
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#401 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd February 2019 13:33
abu mohammed wrote:
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Yes, but scholars aren't expected of this behaviour, even spoilt children change themselves after the death of their parents. And those who aren't 'changed' in young age, invariably, can't be changed in old age...

I think seeing prevalent bigotry between different sects/groups in his country he has advised his fellow scholars to stay away from this kind of sectarianism.
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#402 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd February 2019 13:44
Arfatzafar wrote:
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So you accept there is sectarianism?
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#403 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd February 2019 14:08
abu mohammed wrote:
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you mean sectarianism of ulamae e deoband....?

In India we don't have this kind of sectarianism in ulamae deoband (exception isn't denied).

But perhaps situation in Pakistan is different.
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#404 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd February 2019 20:47
Deobandiyat Kya Hai Aur Kab Shuru Hua? Mufti Tariq Masood
youtu.be/o_ynhMxSgtU

Mufti Sahab comments on each and every issue. Is he following Muftisays lol?!
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#405 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd February 2019 21:02
bint e aisha wrote:
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Sister, now we are going to have to explain his talk and we will still be at the same place.

Unfortunately, people are not grasping what is being said.

Almost every post is being taken out of context and juggled around.

We start with a lecture from a Mufti, let's hope it ends with a Mufti saying exactly what we've been trying to say all along.

SubhanAllah!
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