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Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) on being Deobandi!

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#316 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 12:17

xs11ax wrote:
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Which "dress"?


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#317 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 12:19
I have more than clarified what I understood from it and why I think it's wrong.

Can you all now explain what I should have understood from it and why it's not wrong.
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#318 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 12:20
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Typo. Should have been address.
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#319 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 12:23

xs11ax wrote:
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You have not clarified anything.

You have not said where Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) has exactly and precisely stated what you are alleging.

You have also not said as to where Maulana Qasim Nanotwi (RA) only venerated “green colour” and nothing else associated with Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam)

You have also not stated what makes you classify the action (above) as Bid’ah

Since you have chosen not to do your homework, do you accept the remote possibility that you may be misunderstanding something particularly when you have not even heard (originally) what is in the talk?



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#320 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 12:31
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Yes I may be misunderstanding. That's why I'm asking those who disagree with me what they understood.
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#321 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 12:39

xs11ax wrote:
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You have not quoted your sources and not even heard or investigated what Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) actually says. You are also not willing to believe those who heard him that he never says, “Pray behind Shias!"

Isn’t it fair for you to either listen to it yourself or at least believe others who have heard it, but you are willing to do neither.

There is nothing to suggest that Maulana Qasim Nanotwi (RA) only venerated the green colour and nothing else associated.

Once again, you have not directly quoted anything and you are not willing to believe anyone else who said that he never said or practised it.

You have quoted an action to be Bid’ah but not willing to explain as to why you think it is a Bid’ah.

So what should be done about South African debate?  :P

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#322 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 12:44
Maulana Qasim Nanotwi's (RA) act of respect for the color green is something I understood as his very own high level of reverence not something that he was advocating as an important aspect of deen, or as a measure of one's love for Prophet SAW. Unlike how the true biddatis do. That not celebrating Eid Milad Un Nabi means you are not a true aashiq-e-rasool, etc. It doesn't seem that this has been mentioned anywhere as Maulana's stance based on this action of his. And since he's not here to clear matters himself, the best thing would be to assume that he did not intend to make a religious edict out of this.

As for Mufti Rafi's call for unity, I understood as meaning that the least we could do was at least pray inside one masjid, even if we were praying in our own ways, and according to our own beliefs. That would give a sense of a community hall where all the "Muslims" gather to worship Allah. Whatever the differences, at least we worship Allah.
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#323 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 13:13
Quote:
Qadi Iyaad reports that Imam Malik would never ride an animal or mount in Madinah and he’d say, “I am too shy before Allah to trample with an animal’s hoof on the earth where Allah’s Messenger is buried.” [al-Shifa, Vol. 2, page 63]

Qadi Iyaad also reports the sentiments of Khwaja Abu Fadl al-Jawhari, who said as he approached the blessed City, “The veil has been lifted from us and a moon shines out to those who look on, banishing all illusions. As our mounts reach Muhammad, may Allah’s eternal peace and blessings be upon him; it is forbidden for us to be found in our saddles.
We are drawing near to the best man to have ever walked upon the earth; so we hold this ground with respect and honour.” [al-Shifa, Vol. 2, page 64]

Qadi Iyaad adds, “One must respect the place… whose soil contains the body of the Master of mankind and from which the deen of Allah and the Sunnah of the Messenger spread out… and the first earth that the skin of the Prophet touched after death. Its fragrance should be inhaled, and its residences and walls should be kissed.”

Is this also bid'ah?
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#324 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 13:14
I accept that I may have misunderstood and reacted without knowing the full picture. I take back everything I have said on this matter thus far. I will ask those here who know more about it than me for clarification and context. I will then give my opinion and input.

Please start with this...


Quote:
(31) Same was true in India. After Partition Satan has divided us so much that we do not go to each other's functions and we have separate Masajid for Deobandi, Barelwi, Ahl-e-Hadith, Shia and Sunni. Not a single Masjid for Muslims.


What is mufti Saheb implying by saying, satan has divided us....we do not go to each other's function? Is he merely making a statement of observation? Is he implying that we should go to each other's functions? What functions? Is he saying its wrong that we are divided as it is satan that has divided us? Divided who? Is he talking about those who are mentioned in the same paragraph?

What is mufti Saheb implying by saying we have separate masjids....not a single masjid for Muslims? Is he merely making a statement of observation? Is he implying we should have a single masjid for all Muslims? Is he including all of those mentioned to be counted amongst the Muslims? Is he including shias to be counted amongst the Muslims? Is he talking about some obscure Shia group that are still accepted as Muslims or is he talking about the general shias of that region who are not counted as muslim due to their beliefs?
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#325 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 13:42

xs11ax wrote:
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Bhai, what has gotten into you today? You are neither a South African nor Pakistani :lol

Ajeeb situation...

Quote:
(31) Same was true in India. After Partition Satan has divided us so much that we do not go to each other's functions and we have separate Masajid for Deobandi, Barelwi, Ahl-e-Hadith, Shia and Sunni. Not a single Masjid for Muslims.

Do you realise that this is a partial and incomplete translation? Once again, is there any part of you which has some doubt that perhaps based on “partial, out of context, incomplete translation” may be you are getting the wrong end of the stick?

In other words, you have constructed a strawman in your mind and you want others to refute the strawman which exists nowhere else but your mind? If I take time off from my work, my committements, my family and everything else to correctly put this line into context with exact verbatim translation, where will it take us?

P.S: This means nothing like what you are imagining it means. You can (of course) listen to a few minutes (and you are fluent in Urdu) to directly grasp that he is not saying anything remotely close to what you are debating about. 


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#326 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 13:56
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Our Brother xs11ax Eats Urdu, Sleeps Urdu and Drinks Urdu :)

He's left the Gujarati's a long time ago.
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#327 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 14:00
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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My urdu is very basic and I rely on translations. I will try and listen to the recording later. But if you can put it into context for me then that would be good. I have genuinely retracted my thoughts based on what you have said that this translation does not give the full context.
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#328 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 14:06
bint e aisha wrote:
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I have retracted my opinion based on the translation being out of context.

But as a general opinion not based on what has been said, respect and reverence due to being in the vicinity of the Prophet (saw) is very different to revereing a colour that has been used on a dome that came into being over 1000 years after the Prophet (saw) left us. Otherwise let's start revereing other things that was close to the Prophet (saw) as well. The colour black and white to start off with. Also the colour gold from the golden jali as well. Where does it stop?
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#329 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 14:13

xs11ax wrote:
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It doesn’t!

Ishq-e-Rasool (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) is the epitome of our Eemaan. We love each and every aspect of our Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) even if it is a colour which has merely become associated 1000 years later.

A piece of the Jaali (grill) in Madina Munawwarah is beloved to us then all the Gold in the world.

On the day of judgement we will be with whom we Love and we hope to be with Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam)

None of this is an obligation in Islamic Shariah, it is an expression of love and love has no price!

We don’t really care.

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#330 [Permalink] Posted on 30th January 2019 14:23
xs11ax wrote:
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Quote:
I have retracted my opinion based on the translation being out of context.

The translation about the incident of Maulana Qasim Nanotvi RA can be taken as it is.

You still have to answer my question why do you think it is bid'ah? Can you please define bid'ah?

Quote:
let's start revereing other things that was close to the Prophet (saw) as well. The colour black and white to start off with. Also the colour gold from the golden jali as well.

Why not? It's up to you. Did you read the following post:
bint e aisha wrote:
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Also a separate point: have you read about the aqaid of Ulama-e-Deoband? They consider the grave of the Prophet (saw) to be more blessed than the Ka'abah and Arsh. It's to do with their love for the Prophet (saw).

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