UP Muslims (aka Muhajirs, aka Bhaiyay) and Islam in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh?

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2019 18:13

Why do majority of Islamic communication in India is still in Urdu when a large number of Indian Muslims cannot read the Urdu alphabets?

Why do Muslims in Bangladesh still insist on Urdu when it is not a language in their country?


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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2019 18:29
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Assalamu alaikum

When I asked this question to Indians I got this reply:
Quote:

آپ کے سوال کی جہت غلط ہے، آپ کے سوال پر عمل کرنے جائیں تو کئی نفسیاتی خرابیاں ہیں، ایک تو یہ اس میں ایک طبقہ سے انکی اولین زبان چھڑوائی جارہی ہے، ظاہر ہے کسی سے اسکی اولین زبان چھڑوانا اسکو تقریب گونگا کرنا ہے
ہے، دوسرے یہ کہ مولوی بھی یہاں اگر اردو چھوڑ بیٹھے تو پھر یہاں اردو کا اللہ ہی مالک ہے، مولوی کے علاوہ لوگ یہاں اردو نہیں جانتے،بس آٹے میں نمک کے برابر جانتے ہیں ۔۔۔ پس ایسی صورت میں یہاں اردو کا مرجانا لازمی ہے، اور جب اردو مرے گی تو پوری ایک تہذیب مرے گی کہ اردو ایک تہذیب کا نام ہے، اور جب اردو مری تو عربی لازما مرے گی، بلکہ مرچکی ہے، اور جب اردو عربی دونوں ہی مرگئیں تو اگلا مطالبہ یہ اٹھے گا کہ قرآن عربی رسم الخط میں نہیں، ہندی رسم الخط یا رومن رسم الخط میں لکھا اور پڑھایا جائے۔ انا للہ و انا الیہ راجعون

اس کے بالمقابل اگر آپ اپنے سوال کی جہت تبدیل کریں، اور مسلم اسکول کالج کے ذمہ داروں کو پابند کریں کہ وہ اپنے نصاب میں عربی شامل کریں، عربی پر اگر وہ تیار نہ ہوں تو آخری اوپشن اردو کا داخل کرانا ہو کہ اسکول کالج کے ہر بچہ کو اردو پڑھانا لازم ہے، اس سے نیچے سمجھوتہ نہیں کیا جاسکتا تو اس کے کئی فوائد نظر آئیں گے۔ایک تو یہ کہ ملا مسٹر کے درمیان خلیج کچھ پٹے گی،وہ ایک دوسرے کی بات سمجھیں گے، دوسرے یہ کہ چونکہ اسکول کالج والوں کو اردو آتی ہوگی تو تھوڑی محنت کرکے وہ عربی حروف تہجی کو بھی جان سکتے ہیں، ظاہر سی بات ہے کہ جو اردو جانتا ہے اس کیلیے عربی حروف شناسی کوفتہ اور حلوہ ہوتی ہے اور یوں یہ لوگ قرآن کو قرآنی رسم الخط میں پڑھنے پر قادر رہیں گے .......... خلاصہ یہ ہے کہ ساری قربانیاں آنکھ بند کرکے مولویوں ہی کو دینے کی ضرورت نہیں ہے

نوٹ: ذاتی رائے ہے جس سے اتفاق کرنا ضروری نہیں، مگر غور کرلینا ضروری ہے
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2019 18:38

bint e aisha wrote:
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Ajeeb!

But Urdu is not the language of a large number of Indian Muslims??? Why force them to learn it? Do UP Muslims learn to read and communicate in Punjabi?

Why are they surpirsed that many Muslims are becoming Salafees?

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2019 18:50
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Yes I made all these points but I was told that in India people speak different languages. In North India Hindi is spoken, in West India Marathi, Gujarati, in East India Bangla, and in South India Telugu, Tamil and Kannada are used. So Urdu is the only language which can be learned and spoken by all.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2019 19:03

bint e aisha wrote:
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Troll them with this... :lol

آپ کو میری بات سمجھنے میں غلطی ہوئ ہے جس کیلیئے میں معزرت خواہ ہوں. میرا مقصد اردو کو متروک کروانا نہیں بلکہ جن کی زبان اردو نہیں  ان تک دین کی بات پہنچانا ہے. اب جن مسلماںوں کو اردو لکھنی یا پڑھنی نہیں آتی ، کیا وہ دین سے بھی پھر جائیں؟

انڈیا کے  مسلماںوں کی ایک بڑی تعداد کی مادری زبان اردو نہیں تو وہ کیوں اردو سیکھیں؟ مغرب میں لاکھوں مسلمانوں کی نسلوں کو اردو نہیں آتی تو اب وہاں کے علماء کیا کریں؟ اردو سکھانے کے مسئلے میں لاکھوں مسلمانوں کے ایمان کو داو پر لگا دیں؟ باطل فرقوں کی دعوت ان لوگوں تک ان کی اپنی زبان میں پہنچ رہی ہے اور حق کی نہیں، مسئلہ یہ ہے. کم از کم  ترجمے کا ہی معیاری انتظام کر دیں


Translation: You have misunderstood my point for which I apologise. My intention is not to eradicate Urdu but to communicate the necessary fundamentals of Deen to those whose mother tongue is not Urdu. Should those whose mother tongue is not Urdu, turn away from the Deen?

The mother tongue of a vast number of Indian Muslims in not Urdu so why should they learn Urdu? In the west, there are millions who are the generation of (Urdu speaking) Muslims who don’t know Urdu so what should Urdu in the west, do? Sacrifice the faith of Millions of Muslims for the sake of “learning Urdu”?

Those who are propagating the Baatil are doing it in local languages so their Dawah is getting to these masses while ours is not, is that not a concern to you? At least have good translations...


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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2019 19:07
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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It is a wonderful observation....

To put it rather bluntly,the U.P Muslims have a degree of genuine respect for their language,their culture and even for the high status of their religious figures.One can easily note that in their view for the last so many centuries,majority of Mujaddads,Qutubs,abdals,scholars of significance,madaris of any notable value,national figures of any standing in any field of life,are being produced 'mostly' in a few well known districts.In most instances they are right,but not always....

It is a fact that they are extremely talented,more educated than most other areas and more civilised.They also have a culture of writing books,and therefore good at keeping a record of their achievements.It is only natural that they expect others to follow their language and their culture....

They have contributed a lot to literature (both religious as well as secular),have written great scholarly works in Urdu (and before that in Persian),produced some truly iconic scholars and sufi,s,established some world class universities and institutions,assumed leadership role in some truly historic movements, and contributed positively to the society in general and Muslim masses in particular....

Urdu being their language reflects everything in terms of their contribution to Muslims. It is not easy to let go of it all....
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2019 19:12

Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I'm not in touch with them. When I was discussing I wrote this same point in my own words.


حضرت، اردو کو ختم کرنے کی بات کس نے کی ہے؟ میں نے اردو کے ساتھ ساتھ ہندی کو شامل کرنے کی بات کی تھی. جب آپ کسی سے بات کرتے ہیں تو سامنے والے کا آپ کی زبان سے واقف ہونا ضروری ہوتا ہے. جب علماء اردو میں تحریر لکھتے ہیں تو وہ ہندوستانی عوام کیلئے ہوتی ہے، اور جب وہی بات کو نہیں سمجھیں گے تو آپ کے لکھنے کا فائدہ کیا؟ آپ کیا اپنے مدرسے والوں کیلئے لکھ رہے ہیں جو ساری باتیں پہلے سے جانتے ہیں؟


آپ نے قربانی کی بات کی. کیا علماء لوگوں کا ایمان بچانے کیلئے اتنا نہیں کر سکتے کہ ان سے اس زبان میں بات کریں جسے وہ سمجھتے ہیں؟ یہ بات کوئی بھی ذی عقل سمجھ سکتا ہے کہ سامنے والے سے اس زبان میں بات کرو جسے وہ سمجھتا ہو، ورنہ خاموش رہو. آپ اردو کو بچانے میں لگے رہینگے تو نوجوانوں کا دین کون بچائے گا؟پھر جب وہ مرتد ہوتے ہیں تو آنسو بہانے کا کوئی فائدہ نہیں ہے!


And I was given the same response again.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 14th January 2019 19:22

bint e aisha wrote:
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ALIF wrote:
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Different topic...

As you may know that on the east coast of America the weather is really cold and it is snowing a lot. The whole of America is coping and working EXCEPT Pakistani Embassy.

The voicemail actually says, “Due to cold weather, our staff are unable to take your calls”…

Pakistanees… :lol

P.S: Call the Pakistani consulate in Washignton DC :P




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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 07:16
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The following content has been taken and summarised from the urdu book called "Shaykh ul Islam Hadhrat Baha uddin Zakariyya Multani Suharwardi Rh". Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything of good quality about him in English language.

Methodology of Teaching and Dawah:

1. First of all he would do tazkiyah of his mureeds and students.

2. His disciples would go through intensive dhikr, fasts, prayers, spiritual exercises, meditation. He would also teach them Quran, Sunnah and Fiqh.

3. He created an organized system of dawah in which people of the whole Asia would join him. They would learn different languages and culture and traditions of different areas.

4. His graduate disciples would be trained for giving high quality dawah.

5. They were taught the high morals of patience, steadfastness, good manners, piety and cleanliness.

6. Members of the dawah organization were given capital for trading along with journey expenses. In this manner, they wouldn't burden anyone and would sustain themselves while giving dawah.

7. Each dawah team would consist of five members which would travel to different places and countries. After completing their dawah mission, they would return and report the progress to Shaykh Zakariyya Rh.

8. In the khanqah of Shaykh Zakariyya Rh archery, horse riding and swimming were also taught so that in the time of need, people could defend their deen and motherland and do jihad.

9. He would support the orphans, the poor, the weak, the needy and the students.

10. Whoever would meet him would think that he is given the utmost respect by him.

11. He would ask and care for anyone who would be absent in his majlis (religious gathering) and he would also take care of the sick.

12. After finishing the works and errands of the day, when people would come to his khanqah, he would give sermons which were relative to their needs and circumstances. He would personally serve them and put food in plates with his own hands.

13. He would strictly instruct his disciples to earn halal living.

14. One of his mureeds had written a book named "Kasab Nama". In this book detailed religious and technical instructions are found about barbers, carpenters, utensil makers and shop keepers.

15. He would advise everyone to remain constantly in the dhikr of Allah. Even the women would be advised to do constant dhikr during house chores. The women of his house would finish the whole Quran from beginning to end while doing their chores all day long.

16. He would immediately rebuke those who would do any deed against the sunnah of Prophet SAWS.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 09:46
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Even on an English Forum, posts are made in urdu without translation (sometimes), fatawa are posted without translation - sometimes even the learned ones can't read Urdu, so it's not just something that happens in the subcontinent. there are also posts in Roman text of Urdu :(

I'm not a Pakistani.
I was born in the UK.
I learnt to read Arabic (without understanding) at Madrasah
I learnt to read Urdu in Madrasah (I understood it because I would be spoken to in Urdu by my teacher - who couldn't speak English)
I learnt to read Gujarati in state school (very very basic)
I learnt to speak French at state school
We would have to copy the text of Urdu books by hand into text books, so we learnt the language many years ago. But when we were kids, it was easy, now it takes ages to read one page of hand written Urdu or type up Urdu because we are si used to text book style Urdu/Arabic

Yet, here we are on an international Forum not able to fully comprehend what is being said without translations - (Even some/one of the Authorizers aren't/isn't from the indopak subcontinent, so please post in English too, at least the gist of the post please :))
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 09:47

sipraomer wrote:
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Is there a pdf for this book online?

Jzk

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 10:39
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 11:17
sipraomer wrote:
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Please make use of this section too www.muftisays.com/forums/75-books/ You may wish to post the above book there for the benefits of others in the future

Please see sticky post for better understanding on how to post and what to post.
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