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Who is Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 07:44
bint e aisha wrote:
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Yes, This is correct observation Ma Sha Allah. I have sent audio messages to Mufti Tariq sahab, Maulana Ilyas Ghumman Sahab and other ulema of Jamia Ashrafia whom I know on whatsapp.

In a clip Maulana Ilyas Ghumman Sahab is saying that this person doesn't meet face to face. He is a government servant and one has to pass through security and protocol before meeting him. He hides behind the screen and doesn't come out facing the ulema.

Now my point which I also delivered to Maulana Ilyas Sahab through whatsapp is that, "Fine! Even if he doesn't come out then at least refute him thoroughly through videos. Why you people wait before the fitnah becomes uncontrollable? Simpletons are falling for him already. The Deoband movement has gone very slow."
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 08:14
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The solution to counter this shaytaan and stop other shayateen like him to emerge is to adopt the methodology of Shah Wali Ullah Rh. The ulema must now start connecting quran and hadith with fiqh and start giving thorough references. Times have changed. People are not that simple nowadays and it is not enough "buzurgon ne kaha hai". We are not living in the medieval ages. This is the age of internet. I have no clue what is taught in dars e nizami and how it is taught so I can't comment on it. However, ulema must give references for what they say in their bayans because shayateen are misleading laymen and taking advantage of the laziness(forgive me for saying this) of ulema.

This argument has gone old now that if you want to understand daleel then come and study in madrassah. People demand evidence. If they can't understand then make them understand.

One example:

A ghair muqallad raised his voice during taleem and was bashing the ameer for not being able to give references of what he was saying in targheeb after taleem. All the tablighis went away. However, I sat and listened to his frustrated talk. His only objection was that tablighees don't give evidence for what they say. After some time we met again and again we went into discussion. Half an hour long at least. He would always say give me reference from Quran, give me reference if you are truthful, give me reference. During one discussion he got angry at me. Finally I decided to search for references and give him what he wanted. I spent whole day finding references and collected 16 references from Quran and hadith about six numbers and taqleed. Then when I met him in the masjid , I told him that I have collected the references. It was an hour long debate and he played a trick of trying to silence me in mid sentence and taking my statements out of context. However, I didn't surrender to his illmanneredness and would ask counter questions and would also narrate references for my arguments. Finally, when he got no answer, he became silent and wanted to end the discussion and leave. He took the paper from me in which I had wrote down those ayaat and ahadith translations. After some months, we met again (as he was working overseas at that time and would come occasionally to his homeland on vacations). I asked him that did he cross checked those references and with a sheepish smile he replied that he was too busy. I smiled and gave him a sarcastic remark(subtly and gently) and then we left to never meet and discuss again.

From the incident above I conclude, that these shayateen can only be silenced if ulema give references for what they say so that they couldn't use the excuse of lack of reference and then mislead the masses. They may and will find another excuse but at least they will have one less excuse to create mischief.
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 08:51
sipraomer wrote:
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But don't you see the pattern here? These people are only silent when they know they have encountered an authority. As long as you didn't have the knowledge to counter him, he kept bashing your ideology. As soon as you were knowledgeable enough to counter him he relented. Now his effort will be focused on someone else who is naive. Which is why you will never hear ghair muqalids ever sitting down with ulema to discuss. I have personally tried to convince them to do that. But they will never do it. Because they know their arguments are nothing more than rhetoric supported with loud noises designed only to win debates not to sincerely correct anyone.

The dilemma here for the ulema is that if they publicly start refuting people like this Engineer, they are inadvertently giving more publicity to his views. The followers of these ulema who haven't been introduced to this fitnah will get wind of it too. And you know our youth. In their sincerity and passion, they try to refute fitnahs like these on their own and sometimes end up messing up their own aqaid.
On the other hand, if the ulema don't get a handle on situations like these, they get too out of control to handle later.
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 09:23
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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 09:28
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Hazrat! Unfortunately and alarmingly, in the comment section of his videos, many people are claiming that before listening to this engr they were tablighis and deobandis and now they are ilmi kitabi muslims. Now there is no point for ulema to hesitate. His fitnah is already spreading which must be dealt with harshly and decidedly.

In the Muqadammah of Sahih Muslim there is a statement.

Narrated from Ibn Seereen who said, "They didn't use to ask about the isnaad but when the fitnah (trial, tribulation) came they would say, "name for us your men." So look at the people of Sunnah and accept their hadeeth, and look at the people of innovation and do not accept their hadeeth."

So in this statement there is a hint that ulema have to change their strategy according to the time, environment and situation. In today's time people are demanding evidence. Well equipped followers can't be fooled. I am not saying that laymen should start refuting batil. However, what I am saying that laymen should be informed and educated so that they don't fall for these tricky people.

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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 10:29
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Your post are normally enlightening but yes you are living in a box.
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 10:35
"Concerned wrote:
Your post are normally enlightening but yes you are living in a box.

The Box we need to learn from :)

The Prophet (ﷺ) drew a square and then drew a line in the middle of it and let it extend outside the square and then drew several small lines attached to that central line, and said, "This is the human being, and this, (the square) in his lease of life, encircles him from all sides (or has encircled him), and this (line), which is outside (the square), is his hope, and these small lines are the calamities and troubles (which may befall him), and if one misses him, an-other will snap (i.e. overtake) him, and if the other misses him, a third will snap (i.e. overtake) him."

Youtube Video
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 10:45

Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Now, I have spent some more time listening to his other lectures and two things which seriously concern me.


  1. Time and time again he claims for himself to be highly intellectual and his understanding to be superior to “normal people”. He actually claims this multiple times, this is highly problematic from a Tazkiyah point of view. When you read the stories of major Islamic scholars, hardly any of them claimed to be on a higher level of intelligence and understanding then rest of humans. This is an extremely dangerous situation.
  2. Secondly, in one of the lectures he holds Muwatta Imam Malik (RA) and reads a narration. This is an extremely problematic situation because a narration in Muwatta Imam Malik (RA) NEITHER means that it is the position of Imam Malik (RA) nor that of Madhab. In fact Imam Malik (RA)’s position on Rafa Yadain is an interesting conundrum for Salafees where he declares the traditions to be strong but gives a Fatwa against Rafa Yadain. In other words, a tradition can be sound but the practise may be opposite. Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) and Imam Malik (RA) rely on PRACTISE of the Salaf and not the narrations of the Salaf. They WERE Salaf so they had no reason to look at the practise it was right in front of their eyes.

As someone who was a Salafi and came from this background, DO NOT fall for this obvious trap!

Having said this, people like him are prospering because our Ulama are not improving their game. Times have changed and for the professionally inclined and educated Muslims (specially women) our Ulama need to be treat them with a little more respect and give references.

As I said before, don’t focus on Maulana Maududi (RA), Dr Israr Ahmed (RA), Dr Zakir Naik, Dr Farhat Hashmi, Engineer Mirza and there will be more BUT FOCUS on the issue…Why are they finding people who feel captivated and attracted?

BUT our Ulama will lurch from Maulana Maududi (RA) to Engineer Mirza and treat symptoms and go from one crisis to another



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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 10:50
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I am happy in it. It's cozy ;)

At the end of the day Allah is not going to ask me that how many people have I listened or how many narrations or ayat I have memorized or how many different opinions of various schools of thoughts I know. Allah is going to ask me what have you brought in terms of actions and what is the condition of your qalb.

Mamoonur Rasheed was a great scholar and very intelligent and knowledgeable but he got carried away and fell for Mua'atizilla. I don't believe in quantity but quality. And actions speak louder than words. Show me any other group in this age which has done so much for the deen as a jamaat and not as specific individuals and I am ready to join that group.

Too much salt and pepper can make the food too spicy to eat and too little can make it dull. So correct amount of ingredients is necessary.

Too little knowledge is also dangerous and too much can also confuse you. So gather as much as you can digest and as you need. We have to spend our time wisely and learn the most necessary instead of wasting it in trying to learn and know everything.

Outside the box, it's a huge hurricane. Get inside or you will be destroyed. We are not in the marathon of knowing more. It is our actions which speak and intentions which matter.
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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 15th January 2019 11:30
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At the end of the day Allah is not going to ask me that how many people have I listened or how many narrations or ayat I have memorized or how many different opinions of various schools of thoughts I know. Allah is going to ask me what have you brought in terms of actions and what is the condition of your qalb.


We can agree on this.
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2019 05:48
Assalaamu 'alaikum,

Mufti Tariq Masood sahib did refute him in one of his lectures. Although the purpose of the lecture was to clear the allegations against Maulana Ashraf 'Ali Thanwi sahib, he did mention many problems with Engineer Ali Mirza in that lecture.

One of the main problems in my observation of Ali Mirza's lectures is that:
1. Lot of contradiction in regards to what he claims and what he expresses.
2. Labeling madhhabs as Firqas, and making that argument foundation of everything else he has to say.
3. In his explanation as to how a Prophetic Salah needs to be done, he doesn't hesitate to say "This is what the Sunnah is, and everything and everyone else doing otherwise is wrong." E.g. where to fold the hands.

If you have basic understanding of madhhab, it's crystal clear to notice his fallacies.
May Allaah guide us all, ameen.

Assalaamu 'alaikum
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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2019 06:39
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I have asked numerous times from more than one of his followers (or victims) that tell me the definition of firqa and no one till now could define it. Y'ani you are trying to build a narrative around a concept which you even don't know what it means. Ha! Silly people.
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2019 06:43
Mufti Tariq's current refutation is not enough. He needs to be taken seriously and must be refuted with thorough references. At least 5 to 10 of his masails must be refuted so that we can present them to his followers that look, the refutation has come and your hero is speechless here. His victims always give this argument that if Ali Mirza is wrong then why don't ulema dare to prove him wrong.

I am sorry to say and this may infuriate some people here but I have lost all faith in Tablighi ulema.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwHfdUU9fAc

:( :( :( :( '( '(
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2019 08:29
sipraomer wrote:
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Assalamu alaikum

What's wrong if Maulana Tariq Jameel Sahab has met him?
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2019 09:18
bint e aisha wrote:
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Wa Alaikumusalam Wa Rahmatullah Wa Baraktuhu,
Sigh!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMiAQHC78oA
He is using his name to promote his own agenda. The same way it was wrong to attend IK's symposium on population control according to some members here.
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