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Muslims in the West: Rude, Nasty, Obnoxious, Bad-mannered

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 16:03
Muhammad05 wrote:
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I don't approve of his aggressive behaviour but I know that he is better than most of us. I believe he is very humble and sincere and the amount of work he is doing for the Deen is enormous.

The following couplet of Allama Iqbal suits on him very well:

ہزاروں سال نرگس اپنی بے نوری پہ روتی ہے
بڑی مشکل سے ہوتا ہے چمن میں دیدہ ور پیدا
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 16:09
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And neither do such comments represent the Western Muslim community as a whole or even a fraction. I'm not alone, there are those who are better than myself.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 16:53
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

I have definitely come across such people. I was one myself in my youth. I don't know if this behaviour is more prevalent in the West.

I can think if many factors that may invite this behaviour.

1. Lack of hosh and too much josh due to youth and hormones.
2. Lack of guidance from the righteous elders - could be due to a lack of righteous elders or a lack of respect for elders and their wisdom.
3. General 'gangster/tough guy/I'm from da streetz and I say it like it is' attitude which is encouraged in today's society.
4. Pride and arrogance and trying to appear better or bigger than the other guy.
5. Lack of sincerity - the ones that shout the loudest are usually guilty of the same.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 17:06
Forgot to say. Generally such people only behave like that in their comfort zone and around their friends. They make themselves believe they are a reflection of hazrat Umar (rd), but when they are alone and out of their comfort zone they are not even the shadow of hazrat Umar (rd). Most of them are deluded in their grandeur.
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 17:34
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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yeah the Brothers on the street using the attitude of ..."Yeah i tell like it is" "I say it to the mans face" would be classified by themselves as being direct and by everyone else as rude.

Rude and Direct has no difference.

As for the Title of this thread I experienced on this Forum when I first joined....
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 17:52

Muhammad05 wrote:
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That is NOT aggressive or rude, it is HIGHLIGHTING a point.  You may not agree with the styling but it is a way of expression on forums to make a point.

I write professionally so I don’t write like so in my professional career. If you deem it to be aggressive or rude, that is a perception issue.

You see my point?

The reason for doing this on forums is because in real life or in a professional scenario, you try to understand the other person’s point of view but you disagree. When dealing with Muslims (on forums) a few things happen:

Either they don’t understand what is being said (and this goes both ways) but insist on a particular opinion

Or deliberately and obtusely insist on their point of view because correct.

Professionally, you can fully understand someone’s point and still disagree. Like you may understand the need for me to write this in a specific manner but disagree with it and that’s fine. 


At any given time, I am doing a million times so I am trying to be as precise as possible in conveying my thoughts (and of course I am human and make mistakes) but there is no rudeness from my end.

It is being direct.

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Nope. Absolutely disagree.

Most Muslims (particularly Sufees) are experts on beating around the bush and not stating something directly and being to the point. Speaking in riddles is considered an art.

There is a difference between being direct and rude.

The first line in this response is being direct, there is no disrespect involved at all.

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 18:07
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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But calling people names is rude. I have some of your posts in mind where you were clearly insulting the other person which is unacceptable. I hope you will take it as an advice and think about it.
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 18:11
Lot of disagreements and dislikes in this thread. That's rude. Lol
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 18:23
Lol! someone wants to reduce my reputation by these dislikes. Please reveal yourself and I will gift you 100 reps. This may remove hatred in your heart for me. I can afford to lose reputation but not hatred without reason.
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 18:29

Good manners require patience and patience is tested only when one is challenged (rightly or wrongly), when one feels the other party is wrong but is not accepting it,when one knows someone is avoiding straight talk (for a reason or out of habit),when someone is not submitting to a right arguement....

All or most of such situations happened to our prophet pbuh and he showed patience and restraint,therefore it is sunnah.When Allah swt sent SYEDENA MUSA عليه السلام to Firon,he was given standing instructions to talk to Firon nicely. In general,Qur'an instructs us to 'talk to people nicely' (please note,Qur'an says 'to people' not only to Muslims), so ideally it should have been a trademark of Muslims....

In Pushto,we say : خپل بد د ولو میئنز وی (Meaning: one,s own bad habits are like the space between two shoulders,we can't see it).

That is the main reason,people like me need a teacher.What I can't see in me,he easily finds it out,and once the disease is diagnosed,one day it is cured.The reason,some Muslims in the west (and generally everywhere) speak rudely and don't take into consideration the sensitivities of other people,is this lack of proper training.We may be educated but if we are not trained,we are prone to make such mistakes.

One amongst the salaf spent 20 years with his teacher and according to him out of those 20 years his teacher taught him ADAB (manners) for 18 years and spent only two years on other subjects,he wished even those two years were spent on Adab....
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 18:33
It's the sufi element of the colonel that people may not understand
His level is above most on this forum it seems. I struggle to take the truth, maybe many others on this forum also have this problem.
Also we cannot see clearly, therefore we are either blind or misinterpret what colonel muadh khan says.

He is a gem, just like alif, dr76, sipraomer and some others. Take advantage of this growth, when dealing with these types of people.

We won't get the same time from high level people
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 18:58

bint e aisha wrote:
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Absolutely I do and as a reaction, nothing to disagree about.

eastmidlands wrote:
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Dr Saheb is from the Aal of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) so he is right even when he is wrong and there is no dispute on that.
 
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 19:05
eastmidlands wrote:
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You have overestimated me brother. However, you have made a new friend.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 19:09

In over 25 years of personal experience in multiple continents, I have YET to a single person whose Islah has been done by Tassawuff in terms of improvement in Akhlaq. External appearances etc change by being a Tableeghi/Salafi/Barelwee etc in fact without being anything.

Most people are Kareem and from a good family so they are fine to begin with. I have YET to see a Nasty person change (and I don’t mean a killer/gangster/drug dealer turn to growing a beard and making Salah) because that is normal and routine.

The day I witness it and the Shaykh I witness it from, I will become his Mureed.

I have no doubt that Tassawuff is from the Sunnah and it is necessary. It is necessary for certain people to safeguard their Eemaan, just like for some people it is going to Darul-uloom, for some people its Tableegh, for some people its family, friends.

Whatever it takes to safeguard your Eeman but the lofty claims and what we read in books DOES NOT exist in our times. Maybe it does somewhere, somehow with someone.

I have seen plenty of bad, immoral people change and adopt the Sunnah and their lifestyles change without anywhere near Tasawwuf so that sort of change is entirely possible but if Tasawuuf is ISLAH of the INSIDE, never seen a single person.

The Sunnah of Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) has unique powers and a person changes automatically, by Tassawuff I mean Adhakar and reading things thousands of times daily etc.

sipraomer wrote:
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I am ready to take Bay't.

لا حَوْلَ وَلا قُوَّةَ إِلا بِالله

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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 20th December 2018 20:56
Swapping “direct” for “rude” doesn’t change the perception that you are rude. Your perception is that you are not. That’s your perception. Just like I could be wrong as to my perception; guess what? You actually might be wrong.

Better members than me have alluded to your rudeness. May be, rather than being such an arrogant so and so, you should ponder that they may actually have a point.

Second, in writing, when people ask a question, they might genuinely not have understood. It’s your interpretation that they are being obtuse or that they must have understood. That’s your view.

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