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From Sir Syed Ahmed Khan (RA) to Maulana Saad (HA): THE PROBLEM!

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2018 13:37

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh

For expressing views like this, I have been boycotted, harassed, threatened, slandered etc for decades. I have tried to read every critique and listen to every objection BUT from my Sunniforum days until now nothing has convinced me of the error in my understanding.

This is my singular point of disagreement with dear respected Ulama like Mufti Abu Hajira (HA) etc who fail to grasp what I have tried to say and why.

Throughout history, personalities have emerged which have been controversial and Ulama have rightly warned against them. For the sake of simplicity, let’s take the example of Maulana Maududi (RA) as he will be familiar to the Deobandees.

Before Maulana Maududi (RA) there were many, after him there have been many and there will be many more…

The modus operandi of the Ulama has not changed it, they keep quiet until they can no longer keep quiet and then they issue statements and Fatwaas etc. This is a path of diminishing returns, Ulama can no longer compete with the reach of (the) Media and their output is substantially substandard and unprofessional to the output of Modernists and Secularists.

The mind-set of people has changed and they want “everybody to just get along”…

The problem with merely issuing Maulana Maududi (RA) is inefficient and lacks an overall strategy.

When a figure of such nature emerges two things should happen:

  1. W-H-Y has he gained popularity amongst the masses? Which trick did the Ulama miss? Why are people attracted to such a personality?
  2. What is the most effective way of protecting the Eemaan of the people?

For example, we have hundreds of Darul-ulooms and thousands of Ulama and YET Nauman Ali Khan (NAK) is outrageously more popular and has a much bigger reach compared to most of them put together, W-H-Y? Why did Dr Zakir Naik became a household name? Why is Dr Farhat Hashmi gaining popularity amongst women?

The simplistic answer often given is that people like things which are easier on the Nafs so they are attracted to these sorts of personalities but this is an easy get out clause.

For decades, Tableeghi Jamaat has WRONGLY kept the people ignorant. No minutes are ever circulated, nobody knew what happens in Muhwaras and in fact people are encouraged to be IGNORANT! This is in sharp contrast to the way of Islam which is to inform people about what is going on, who is in charge…Not in detail but on some level.

Maulana Saad (HA) has stepped into a breach of ignorance and exploited it. Now everyone is running around to try to educate the masses about what happened in this Mushwara or that Mushwara. Even when Maulana Saad (HA) saga is resolved If it ever is), the basic issues is NOT being looked and will NOT be resolved.

The second issue is the obvious deterioration of the Tableeghi work. Tableeghi Jamaat work has gown down in quality and it is nothing but a bunch of rituals. Those who have spent time in Jamaat can see the worsening of quality and Maulana Saad (HA) just like Donald Trump is promising change to which masses are reacting to.!

This is the real issue...Nobody does any root cause analysis of the problem.

There is a reason why Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani became popular, how many times have you come across analysis of what was happening at that time and what was used to propel an obscure person to relative popularity in colonial India

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2018 15:54
Times have changed. You just can't tell the people not to read or listen a particular person just like that.
You have to address the issues intellectually and refute false ideologies in the language people can easily understand.
You can't rely upon the work our akabireen have produced alone. You have to prepare new and fresh literature which is energetic and equally professional. You can't be content with old methods of instruction and expression. You have to adopt modern means without corrupting the traditional understanding of deen.

We are too slow in adopting new ways of communication. Batil is taking advantage of it. We aren't living in medieval times. Therefore, giving ancient examples to people of this age is fruitless. Give modern examples to explain ancient concepts. Don't change the concepts, just the examples. Don't change the deen, just the way you teach and deliver it.

In short, translate the deen in the language people understand well.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2018 15:58
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Google and Facebook also have a very big hand in spreading these people of Baatil in our present era of Youtube.


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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2018 16:27
All of the above is correct, analyse the life of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani (Kaafir), we have been here before and since we didn't learn the lessons we are suffering again.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2018 17:01
I will let everyone think about Mirza Ghulam Ahemd Qadiyani and do their research and then we will pick this up in the next few days. It is critical for Deobandees to know what happened from a Social and Technological perespetive and apply the lessons now.

We are at the same junction again.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2018 17:24
One thing comes to mind. We were not in power and the state was supporting him. When a state supports something, it's difficult to stop it.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2018 19:15
Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani was a debater who debated with Christian missionaries.
Sir Syed Ahmed Khan was an intellectual and a prolific writer.
Same is the case with Maudoodi
Dr.Zakir Naik is a successful orator and debater
Maulana Saad is also a great orator.
NAK is a good speaker and intellectual too.

One thing is common in them. Great creative abilities. And (it's my guess) the ability to capture the imagination of youth by communicating in a manner and adopting a medium they can understand and like.

When traditional ulema fail to satisfy the energetic youth with rational argument in the language they understand. The curious mind find Mu'tazilla like figures more attractive.

Maybe, the madaris have failed to produce another Imam Ghazzali Rh who could respond the heretics effectively and satisfy the common layman.

Jamood is the culprit in traditional circles.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2018 19:37
السلام علیکم
I don't know why people are putting Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani in the same category. I mean who would get inspired by him; I feel nauseated even at the mention of his name. I guess people only accept his religion due to financial benefits.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2018 19:56

sipraomer wrote:
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bint e aisha wrote:
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I have read Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani and I can assure you that he was neither intelligent nor impressive in either speech or writing. His influence (after 1900 and later) is purely down to British colonialization.

I honestly fail to see how he could have been any good in any debates and I truly feel that it is propaganda or misrepresentation of the facts.

I am talking about 1890 and before he caught the attention of the British.

There is NOTHING in the entire collection of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani which is impressive at all!

Maulana Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwee (RA) has sufficient grasp of Fiqh (and he is orthodox in a lot of places) and Sir Syed Ahmed Khan (RA) focussed on (Newtonian) Physics so they edge out, Mirza Ghulam Qadiyani had no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Maulana Abul-Kalam Azad (RA) is the best writer I have ever read.  Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) speaks in a posh, upper class highly educated language which was the way most upper class Indian Muslims spoke at the time (and some still do). Allamah Qasim Nanotwi (RA) was a mountain of knowledge which a common Alim (let alone laymen) simply cannot grasp. Mufti Rasheed Ahmed Gangohi (RA) has a certain style of succinctly summarising a long conversation and making his point plainly known. Nawab Sadiq Hasan Khan (RA) brings volumes of information on a topic but fails to put it all together. Shah Wailullah (RA) and all others who followed him stand out against (Hanafi) Bias and bigotry prevalent in India at the time and closely follow Hadeeth, they all have a similar style.

I say this without being biased as a Muslim but Mirza had nothing! Women from low professions (of India) wrote better and spoke better then Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani.

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 11th December 2018 20:44
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
His influence (after 1900 and later) is purely down to British colonialization.


Then here is the answer of the question you raised.

"Pen without sword is powerless". We weren't in power at that time. We aren't in power today also. Nobody is there to stop them.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 12th December 2018 04:34
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Tairik-e-buland baal dana-o-daam se guzar (Allama)

O high flying birdie, rise above the traps of enticement (dana=food) and restrictions (daam=net of the bird hunter).

I intend to write a more detailed response later but by the Grace of Allah SWT I have got these issues clear by now.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 12th December 2018 04:38
bint e aisha wrote:
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Well, people who are considered smart by worldly standards, like Pakistan's Atif Mian did actually get "inspired" by his ideology when he went to study in the US and was exposed to the Tabligh of his ideas. He was born to Muslim parents. I guess you could say that it was more of his foolishness than Mirza's charm which made that happen, but still. Brother Muadh's point is that people are naturally gullible and to protect them from falling into erroneous ways is the responsibility of our ulema.
Although I wouldn't lay the entire blame on the ulema's shoulders, the common people too are responsible for this decadence. They have been ulema-phobic since the beginning.

Quote:
Maybe, the madaris have failed to produce another Imam Ghazzali Rh who could respond the heretics effectively and satisfy the common layman.

How are the madaris supposed to produce Imam Ghazzalis when the people send those children to madrassas who they consider the most incompetent in terms of worldly matters? Those who are competent in their eyes are encouraged to become engineers, doctors and pilots.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 12th December 2018 05:58
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God I can't believe he got converted to Qadianism? He must have done that for some worldly gain / position etc. How can anyone actually believe in the rubbish proposed by Mirza (LA). I just can't wrap my mind around it.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 12th December 2018 06:45
fod1083 wrote:
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Quote:
How are the madaris supposed to produce Imam Ghazzalis when the people send those children to madrassas who they consider the most incompetent in terms of worldly matters? Those who are competent in their eyes are encouraged to become engineers, doctors and pilots.


Here again, you are proving my point in another way. Without shariah and power, people will not give importance to deen and it's institutions and thus without state support high quality da'aees and ulema will not emerge in sufficient numbers. Also it is the responsibility of the state to sort out and punish the culprits. Just like fraud doctors, fraud engineers, fraud businessmen, the state is responsible to control and punish fraud molvis too.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 12th December 2018 07:03
Not all are interested in research and listening to debates. Not all of the people have so much time at their hands. People are interested in listening crispy and spicy talkshows on politics and other matters. But since their iman and love for deen is low, they aren't interested in investigating about whom to listen and whom to listen not.

So there are two main factors.

1. Lack of enthusiasm on the part of public to take interest in deeni matters. They read what interests them and are interested in the delivery instead of the content they are delivered.

2. Lack of enthusiasm in ulema to learn new and better ways of presenting the content in a manner which is interesting yet forceful and digestible for common man.

A third point comes to mind.

The serious and educated folks, want to know the political and economic system of Islam so that they could resist secularism and give at least an idea of Islam to the secularists who claim that Islam is outdated in today's time.

Traditional ulema are mostly busy in exerting all of their energies in debating about masail of Rafya Dain and holding hands on chest or above navel. This turns off the educated class and they get an impression that traditional ulema are all about sectarianism and narrow mindedness. The Mu'tazilla like figures take advantage of this gap created by the dis interest of ulema in the practical worldly affairs of people where deen has a treasure of guidance for them.

Thus when people like Maudoodi talk about political Islam in an attractive manner, when people like Dr.Zakir Naik are able to defeat Christians, Hindus and Atheists in debates in their own language and in a manner which appeals the logical mind of the masses. Then it is a natural thing that the educated ones, who are tired of sectarianism and intellectual jamood are automatically attracted to otherwise fine intellectuals but with weak fundamental foundations in deen.
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