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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2018 10:43
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2018 11:58
You are very naughty.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2018 12:11
sipraomer wrote:
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salaam

that might be the case, but im looking for opinions on the article, not opinions about me! im trying to get both sides of the story so to speak.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2018 13:28
AoA
May I know who wrote that article? From the looks of it the writer is trying to paint tassawuf as a different religion so to speak. Some sort of cult to be precise. Unfortunately he is failing badly at it.

Quote:

It started from Platonism, shaped into perennialism and now some of our friends are trying to fool the people by saying that Tasawwuf is nothing more than "Tazkiyyah Nafs". I wish it were but it is the opposite. Tasawwuf is rather "Ghalaba e Nafs" as the pioneers of Tasawwuf gave preference to their personal desires and experiences over the revealed knowledge which is preserved in the form of Quran and Sunnah.


Ghalab-e-Nafs? Lol. This is a good one.



Quote:
It was just an year after that I started reading Fusus Al Hikam and Fatuhaat Makiyyah of the so called Shaykh e Akbar Ibn Arabi. Surfing through the pages of Fusus Al Hikam, the first impression I got was that Ibn Arabi is talking about something other than Islam, at least the Islam I know of. I was taken by the feeling that he (Ibn Arabi) has a parallel interpretation for Tawheed and Prophethood and almost every other basic belief of Islam is tuned according to his interpretations in his books.

So he started reading Fusus and Fatuhaat? Probably Alone right?
Aren't you supposed to read these books in the presence of a shaykh one that is qualified?


Quote:

2. Ahya Al Uloom by Abu Hamid Al Ghazali Rahimahullah (Born in 450 AH in Tus , Iran. Reverted from Sufism to Ahl us Sunnah wal Jama’ah before he died)


So Imam Ghazali converted from Sufism to Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah before he died? Is he sure about that?

Quote:

He is the first person to write in detail about the "Islamic version" of Platonism and thats why he is known as the pioneer of Wahdat al Wujood in Islam. Almost a century after him, Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyah will appear on the scene and will crush the deviance of these Sufis through the sword of Quran and Sunnah, Rahimahullahu Ta'ala.


Wahadat al wajood means Only Real existence is Allah سبحانه وتعالى one that isn't dependent on anyone. Our existence is dependent on Allah سبحانه وتعالى and thus it isn't a true existence in the figurative sense.

I stopped reading when he said Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Tamiyah arrived on the scene to crush the deviance of the sufis.

There is no need to address this. Not because it can't be addressed but the amount of time it would take to address the foolishness and misrepresentation in that article would be too time consuming.

Imagine this guy has read Ihya Uloom din and even then his Nafs can't seperate right from wrong. In his desire to be right he is delved into a territory which imam Ghazali (May Allah be pleased with him) warned against when he said in confessions of Al Ghazali "But behind those who believe comes a crowd of
ignorant people who deny the reality of Sufism,
hear discourses on it with incredulous irony, and
treat as charlatans those who profess it. To this
ignorant crowd the verse applies : " There are
those among them who come to listen to thee, and
when they leave thee, ask of those who have
received knowledge, ' What has he just said ?
'
These are they whose hearts God has sealed up
with blindness and who only follow their passions."

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2018 13:36
xs11ax wrote:
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1. Orthodox Tassawuf was there way before the Islamic world came into contact with Platonism and Greek mythology.

2. Therefore, declaring all the sufis as deviants and affected by platonic thought is non sense.

3. Imam Ghazzali Rh was the one who defeated the philosophers and removed the influence of Greek thought from the minds of Islamic world.

4. I am not in the position of analyzing this heavy duty article. However, I would say this that he is ghair muqallid and is being biased.

5. Instead of going so deep in philosophy we must commit our energies to Quran and Sunnah. Delving too deep in abstract concepts written by some folks many centuries ago is a wastage of time. We are facing far serious issues. We must come to the real world.

For now, I have only this to say.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2018 15:13
xs11ax wrote:
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Is this person some sort of authority on the matter?

Then why are we even bothering to delve into what he/she has to say?

One of the brothers above has said very correctly that the author most likely read these manuals on tasawwuf without having been in the company of the mashaikh. These books on tasawwuf are not DIY. One needs to learn them from the mashaikh, or at least acquire some proficiency in tazkiya before going down this road of pseudo critical analysis.

This is the same Dr. Atif of sunniforum, isn't it? The brother was a confused individual back then and although he seemed sincere in his quest, he was rather outspoken and rigid in his opinions. He did temper some of his views over time, but he still had misgivings about the ulama and mashaikh.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd July 2018 15:42
the following is a quote given in the article. is this quote fabricated? if its not fabricated then how do we explain it?

Quote:
Pharaoh was in the position of authority, and he was the master of the moment since he was the Caliph with the sword, even though he broke the customary divine laws when he said, "I am your Lord most high" - i.e. since all are lords, I am the highest of them through the power which you have outwardly given me over you. The sorcerers knew that he spoke the truth in what he said, and they did not deny it. They affirmed that to Pharaoh, and said, "You only judge in this passing life, so judge as you like, for the kingdom is yours." So the statement of Pharaoh, "I am your Lord most high," was valid. Although in fact Pharaoh was Allah but his physical appearance was that of Pharaoh. (Na’uzu billah min zalik)
(Fusse-Musviya, Page no. 210 - 211)
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd July 2018 04:02
xs11ax wrote:
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First off, we don't know what book this is quoted from. And, even if it is from the Ahle Haqq, then again, we are dealing with specific terminology (istelahaat). The books of tasawwuf are not for the layman, and many knowledgeable people in the past have erred in their interpretation without guidance from the mashaikh. A case in point is Shaykh e Akbar Ibn Arabi (rh). Some scholars not versed with the intricacies of sulook have issued fatawa of Zanadiqa on Ibn Arabi (rh) because they were unable to understand his writings.

There is a incident about an alim who in the life time of Ibn Arabi (rh) warned people to stay away from him. However, when Ibn Arabi (rh) passed away, the same alim lamented his passing away. People asked the alim why he was saddened by the death of a zindeeq. The alim replied that Ibn Arabi (rh) was a wali of the highest order. I ordered people to stay away from him because I knew that the laity would not be able to understand his words and likely be lead to kufr.

The interpretation here is fairly simple. Firoun was given power by Allah swt, and he was given free reign to do as he pleased, as is the Sunnah of Allah swt, in that until clear and manifest revelation is sent to a people, they are not taken account of in this worldly life.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd July 2018 13:00
xs11ax wrote:
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1. Ibn Arabi has been a controversial figure. In his book Saviour of Islamic Spirit, Shaykh Ali Mian Rh writes (paraphrasing) that some of the mureeds of Ibn Arabi claimed that some of the books attributed to Ibn Arabi were not written by him or they were heavily fabricated and modified by others.

2. Tazkiya is about experiencing Islam. Unlike other sciences of Islam, we can find very few books on this science. It is all about practically experiencing the deen instead of delving into theorectical concepts. Sometimes some terminologies and analogies are used to explain a specific point. One mustn't read these books without the assistance of a shaykh because the author may mean something else where as we may understand in a totally different manner.

3. Every discipline of deen and dunia needs some pre requisites to understand it properly in it's correct context. This guy seems to lack those pre requisites. He is a nursery student who is nit picking from medical books misquoting statements here and there.

4. Don't take him seriously. Just chill. Islam is not an academic exercise. It is a practical experience. It was not revealed for only the philosophers but for the whole of mankind with varying degrees of intelligence and tastes. Terminologies are created out of necessity to understand and explain anything. These are not the main thing. The main thing is the message and the essence. The job of a good scholar is to explain and transfer that essence to his audience in a manner which is understandable and digestible.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd July 2018 13:34
xs11ax wrote:
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Wa Akaikum Assalam w.w.

I have known Dr Atif while at sunniforum and had many discussions/ debates with him there.. before sunniforum shut down.. my last conversation with him was on his change of Madhhab (on Profile status) from "None" to "Hanafi" . upon inquiry he replied as to have discovered blatant lies and academic dishonesties by salafi writers/ scholars..

The date on that link appears as of 2012.. and he went AWOL after that from sunniform..

Most of the nonsense what he used to write (being a salafi) on Tasawwuf / Mashaikh of Tasawwuf was thoroughly refuted with proofs..

Thanks to some really stupid people.. all the hardwork is gone...

So u may kindly ignore that link as fake news.. :-)

duas..

wa Assalam..
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