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Soil of Kerbala Question

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 12:16

Shia Belief:

Shia belive that the Soil of Kerbala is blessed and has cures in it.

Hypothetical Medical Research:

www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleno/41850/titl...

Many of the most widely used antibiotics have come out of the dirt. Penicillin came from Penicillium, a fungus found in soil, and vancomycin came from a bacterium found in dirt. Now, researchers from Northeastern University and NovoBiotic Pharmaceuticals and their colleagues have identified a new Gram-positive bacteria-targeting antibiotic from a soil sample collected in Kerbala (Iraq) that can kill species including methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) and Mycobacterium tuberculosis. Moreover, the researchers have not yet found any bacteria that are resistant to the antibiotic, called Kerbalobactin.

Fiqh Question:

Will it be Halal or Haram for Sunni Muslims to use Kerbalobactin?

Additional Information:

  1. Kerbalobactin contains no Haram ingredients
  2. 4 Patients need Kerbalobactin:
    • Sunni Muslim who is asking is a Mufti from Darul-uloom Deoband teaches Aqeedah and has written 5 books refuting Shia beliefs and understands Aqeedah issues in depth.
    • Sunni Muslim who is asking is a bricklayer from a village in Punjab and does not know how to read or write. He only knows last 10 Surahs of the Qur'aan but follow the Sunnah and lives his life as per the instructions of his Shaykh
    • Sunni Muslim who is drunkard and does not pray
    • Sunni Muslim woman who does not pray and does not wear Hijab


 

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 12:30
:)

Please post questions such as the ones posed in this topic to the Ulamaa. Or click here for a vast library on islamqa.org. Alternatively, you can get support locating available answers online in the Q&A Support section of this form here
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 12:33
Lets see what Dr76 and Dr Alif answer to this poll. :)
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 13:18
"That's the height of stupidity"

Add this option and then I shall vote.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 13:34

bint e aisha wrote:
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And why is it the height of stupidity IF the medical research is found to back this scenario?  Please feel free to insult me if that will help you make your point more effectively. As long as your insults are backed by evidence no problem with that.

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 14:00
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Where have I insulted you? My comment was not exactly related to your post. I was calling Shias stupid; they use it because they consider it holy. There is NO special antibiotic in the soil of Karbala.

But where have I insulted you? I thought we were having a fruitful discussion in the other thread without disrespecting anyone.. Please tell me where have I offended you. I won't proceed further.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 14:21
He is giving you permission to insult him, not accusing you of insulting him :)

Quote:
Please feel free to insult me if that will help you make your point more effectively.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 14:35

bint e aisha wrote:
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  1. I have NOT accused you of insulting me.
  2. I have GIVEN YOU PERMISSION to call me stupid and insult IF that help you make your point more effectively.

And why is it the height of stupidity IF the medical research is found to back this scenario?

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 14:47
salaam

if there is nothing haram about it and it is proven to work, then i would treat it just like any other medicine. i.e with caution, taking into account its side effects, and only use when it is necessary and there are no other better replacements. just because there is a coincidental connection with the place shias revere doesnt make a difference.

but if there was no logical/scientific/rational reason for that soil to somehow have a cure, and the only reason put forward was some juntar muntar (mumbo jumbo) recited over it by the shias, then i would practice extreme caution and not use the cure under the suspicion that black magic was involved.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 15:26
Quote:
Now, researchers from Northeastern University and NovoBiotic Pharmaceuticals and their colleagues have identified a new Gram-positive bacteria-targeting antibiotic from a soil sample collected in Kerbala (Iraq) that can kill species including methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) and Mycobacterium tuberculosis. Moreover, the researchers have not yet found any bacteria that are resistant to the antibiotic, called Kerbalobactin.


I agree with xs11ax. But an important question would be :

what if there was no research or tests done on this soil, but it was known through experience that the soil was effective against certain diseases, then would It be halal to use it or not?
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 15:34
concerned wrote:
what if there was no research or tests done on this soil, but it was known through experience that the soil was effective against certain diseases, then would It be halal to use it or not?

Counter question:
Under what belief would this be effective to make it halal?
The shia belief or Natural cause by the will of Allah?
Then you'll have your answer.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 15:44
I guess the issue would be how do we know if these claims of cure through experience are real? The claims of the soil containing cure could be passed on from the shia belief, and over the years so many non shias and even non muslims claim they found cure in the soil, but how do we know if it is a real cure of just psychological and people are joining the hype and thinking that they are cured from the soil?
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 15:59

Concerned wrote:
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Medical science (specially surgery) is subjective. Some surgeon decided to make a key-hole surgery and now we have key-hole surgery

Back to the same question I have been asking for 3 days:

  1. It is not 100% effective
  2. It is not 100% proven
  3. It is not 100% understood
  4. It sounds stupid
  5. It makes no logical sense

How does any of it make (and more) something impermissable?

I have given concrete example after example after example. In this case IF this hypothetical situation was to come true this antibiotic would be permissable despite us fully knowing what the Shias believe about Kerbala.

Its a dead simple binary question to all you. All your arguments are 1-5 and I am granting you the leeway that all of them are valid, how does something become impermissable even if all 5 are YES?

And importantly just because the Sisters thinks something is STUPID or doesn't make sense to her?

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 16:13
Quote:

In this case IF this hypothetical situation was to come true this antibiotic would be permissable despite us fully knowing what the Shias believe about Kerbala.[/quote]

Yes because there is a reasonable basis for establishing that there is some kind of cure in the soil.


[quote]It is not 100% effective
It is not 100% proven
It is not 100% understood
It sounds stupid
It makes no logical sense

How does any of it make (and more) something impermissable?


Because We aren't looking at this topic in a vacuum, they are many aspects of the shariah to be considered, hence the discussion.

Take the case of the metal bracelets, Abu Muhammad is saying according to the above, it should be allowed, but apparently there is a hadith preventing us from using it. ( agreed we are still seeking clarification)

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 16:30

Concerned wrote:
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There is no vacuum and you have skipped the question.


Without arguing with you on the validity of these, I grant that all of this is true


1.    It is not 100% effective
2.    It is not 100% proven
3.    It is not 100% understood
4.    It sounds stupid
5.    It makes no logical sense


How does something which fulfils all 5 scenarios categorically become Haram? On What basis? What is the evidence that declaration of stupidity or inability to understand on behalf of someone declared something impermissible?

I have not said that it contradicts with evidence
 

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