Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

The Halafi Onslaught

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
To appreciate this topic, click 'Appreciate Topic' on the right.
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
112
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#16 [Permalink] Posted on 10th September 2015 16:38
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,146
Brother
9,541
abu mohammed's avatar
#17 [Permalink] Posted on 10th September 2015 16:52
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

Actually, the word is already taken by The real Halafi and the same goes for Sanafi....in fact, Sanafi is more related to food than Halafi, Oh well!
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Offline
Gham-o-Huzn
3,269
Brother
3,503
Maripat's avatar
#18 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2015 07:15
Talafi too is in use already.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Abdullah bin Mubarak's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
244
Brother
105
Abdullah bin Mubarak's avatar
#19 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2015 12:55
Ismail Ibrahim wrote:


Here is an article that demonstrates precisely the problem with certain Deobandis, who are pushing an "Either you're with us or against us" mentality:

The parallels this article has with Salafi Madkhalism are astounding. I want to draw similarities between this write up and Madkhali attitudes that carry similar traits wherever possible:


1. The problem with such attempts to impose Maulana Husayn Ahmad Madani's critical opinions on Ibn Taymiyyah or Sub-Continent Ikhwanis is that it disfigures serious internal discourse among Deobandis. In other words, it does not take into account the positive things other Deobandi scholars have said about Ibn Taymiyyah. Why is it that Madani's verdicts on IT and the Ikhwanis are the final proof and nobody can disagree with them?

It is just like Madkhalis who live to uphold what Ibn Baz, Ibn 'l-`Uthaymin, al-Albani et al said decades ago, to the exclusion of other scholars even within their circles of persuasion.

2. Such an article revives old ghosts and skeletons from the closet. What's not to say that such close-minded individuals will still be alive in 50 years? When will this stop? Or will it go on forever? Is dwelling on this the definition of progress and work towards unity? Or does everybody have to conform to this narrow-minded Deobandi definition of unity, in which everybody else has to compromise and accept them but they have nothing to compromise for anyone outside their circle?

This is precisely the Madkhali mentality. It is also why isolation happens amongst such extreme sectarianists.

3. The article is too prescriptive in nature, imposing a certain polemic and sectarianism within the Deobandi reading it. It also happens to cast aspersions on the Deobandism of fellow Deobandis who are not of the same view. It is a surreptitious attempt to emotionally blackmail other Deobandis into what one or some of their Akabir said, who just so happened to be critical about these figureheads.

Madkhalis do exactly the same - in fact, they have a terminology for it - تمييع. By these Madkhali-Deobandi standards, Abul Hasan Nadwi was probably a Mumayyi` himself because, instead of criticising Mawdudi, he flirted with Ikhwanis for a large portion of his entire life and in fact dedicated a few pages to Mawdudi in his work 'puraney chiragh'. But that's all to be dismissed for the fanatic because Madani said otherwise.

4. Without doubt, the rhetoric in the article ramps up sectarianism. The 'other' is warned of as alien, and that purity can only be found in the 'inner circle'.

Well guess who else has a similar extreme mentality of "us versus others"? Such an attitude is a result of a self-imposed siege mentality, in which they must protect themselves from everyone else, who is by default suspicious and 'guilty unless proven pro-Deobandi' or 'pro-Salafi'.

5. I also note the evident pro-Deobandi sectarian bias in this piece. The translator blasts Salafis for infiltrating Hanafis, then he reproduces the letter by Madani in which he's having a go at Mawdudis (Sub-Continent Ikhwanis). In other words, you are upon Batil if you are a Salafi or an Ikhwani of any sort. Everything else is expendable - even serious internal discourse on the differences and nuances between the Deobandi Akabir. The main thing is 'our version of Deobandism' must be preserved from within and cannot be subject to any form of corruption from outside influences.

This sounds almost as incestuous as Madkhali Salafis behave. Whereas Salafis are of various strands, only one stands true. This eventually leads to fratricide. It is happening in full flow within Salafi circles, and it is the logical conclusion to Deobandi fanaticism and is showing signs of rearing its ugly head.

6. The immaturity of the article shines through in it lead title "The Halafi Onslaught". Besides being a meaningless term, I wonder what terms he proposes for Malikis, Shafi`is and Hanbalis who happen to be "Salafi" in his definition. I also wonder if the author of this term would use it in Arabic (حَلَفي) and explain to Arab brother what he intends with it. For now, it seems it's a strictly English term - he's even courteous enough to provide its plural in English: "[A] new word has been coined to describe him: Halafi (pl. Halafis)." After all, throwing around names is easy. The author can be called a Deobandi mutant, having mutated away from the teachings of the many of his Akabir in how to deal with adversaries, but how does that help?

It is in fact unacademic. Hanafi scholars have been of varying creeds throughout the ages, as have Malikis, Shafi`is and Hanbalis. Some were Mu`tazilis, Ash`aris, Maturidis, non-denominational Sunnis, Ahl 'l-Hadith/Athari, Hanbalis, and the list goes on. What name does the author propose for Zamakhshari? Hana`tazili? ok that doesn't sound alright, but Halafi does so let's use it to brand others.

7. The author's inferiority complex is also evident. Just because he may have had a bad experience with a Salafi or two, in which perhaps he was too fickle to express and defend his own position, does not mean there is an 'onslaught' by 'Halafis'. This article serves only to demonstrate the author's own insecurities and therefore perhaps doublespeak behind their backs - something he accuses 'Halafis' of doing, without proof may I add.

8. Furthering the allegations made against 'Halafis': "The Salafi of today operates with a cloak of respect under the guise of being Hanafi while subtly and gradually promoting his views against the four imams, taqlid, the Ash‘ari and Maturidi schools, dar al-‘ulums, the ‘ulama and the akabir"

I'm concerned at the picture being portrayed here, even of purebred Salafis. Many Salafis don't 'speak ill' of the Four Imams, Taqlid, Darul Ulums, or the Ulama or Akabir of Deoband. Some may do but that hardly constitutes a majority. After all, some Deobandis speak ill of Salafi scholars.

The Ash`ari-Maturidi creed is generally opposed in non-Kalami circles, but so do Ash`ari-Maturidi oriented folks oppose the Hanbali creed with the same ferocity, nowadays attacking not only Ibn 'l-Qayyim and Ibn Taymiyyah but extending their wrath unto Ibn Khuzaymah, al-Bukhari and Imam Ahmad's direct students. It's a fair and level playing field so their no point crying foul.

On the topic of Taqlid (the cornerstone of Deobandi fanaticism), it is quite clear that unless you don't subscribe to the obligation of 'Taqlid Shakhsi', you are anti-Taqlid, even if you subscribe to Taqlid Mutlaq being an obligation on laymen, which has been proven to be the majority position of scholars.

The lack of precision and honesty in the author's statement is staggering. He needs to develop a more nuanced position on Salafis, let alone people he deems to be 'Halafis'. There is no conspiracy here. It's just the author's figment of his imagination that he has embarrassed himself with by expressing it publicly.

THIS ARTICLE alone has discredited the entire deoband.org project. I am not surprised that such a harsh stance is being taken against the entire 'Salafi world' (their definition of the term, which is: anybody who remotely agrees with Ibn Taymiyyah's exposition of Imam Ahmad's creed). Scholars like Shaykh Yunus in Saharanpur have been questioned, and doubts have been raised in Deobandi circles whether he is even a Sunni! Any Deobandi sympathising with Ibn Taymiyyah is branded with negative labels by the fanatics.

In an attempt to neuturalise this absurd article, I looked for an entry by Mufti Taqi Usmani on the same website, stating his position that Ibn Taymiyyah's approach in the Sifat Ilahiyyah is one of three Sunni approaches. It was one of the very first articles published on deoband.org, but has been removed. Why? Because Mufti Taqi is not Deobandi enough? He has shades of Salafism in him? He's now a Halafi too? Here was the link that carried you to the article: www.deoband.org/2010/04/hadi...e-issue-of-the-ambiguous-a... - check out the people who have replaced the Salafis from the 90s as the Aqidah police!

IN CONCLUSION, there's not much to be said really other than what a participant on the Muftisays Deobandi forum just contributed, who is able to look right through the hogwash: "How sad. The Deobandi masajid and institutions in the west should put up big disclaimers stating the contents of that letter. Let them know that they have to convert to deobandism and become a member of the clique if they expect to be treated as a fellow Muslim brother and become a part of that society. Oh yeah and don't forget to add "don't question anything!!" "

The battle for who gets to speak not only for Deobandism but for Islam itself is raging amongst Deobandis. However, there is no doubt that this fanaticism is not accepted by Akabir of Deoband. In the words of Maulana Abul Hasan Nadwi, which the Deobandi fanatics would silently despise as it is applicable to them: "Islam is not anyone's monopoly" (taken from www.muftisays.com/forums/14-...-ali-nadwi-islam-is-not-an...)

Taken from IA forums

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
112
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#20 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2015 14:09

www.muftisays.com/blog/Muadh_Khan/3852_12-09-2015/the-hal...

Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

I have been contacted about the latest article on Deoband.org so many times on email, phone, text and WhatsApp it’s not even funny! Yes I have read it and also read the precursor to “Halafi Dawah” which was a critique of Sheikh Abu Abd Allah Damiel (HA) of Blackburn.

The Ulama who are involved in the writing of these critiques have the right (in fact duty) to inform the masses of what they deem to be operations contrary to the Qur’aan and Sunnah. I understand that.

In my opinion, these critiques don’t achieve much.

  1. The fundamental question which is not being addressed is HOW COME a “Halafi” is able to setup a professional institute in Blackburn dead smack in the heart of Deobandees and achieve success?
  2. Deobandi Ulama have had almost complete command of this geography for decades, how did someone come out of nowhere and surpass them in delivering professional Islamic Education?
  3. I asked the same question to some Mureeds of Shaykh (Maulana) Saleem Dhorat as to HOW “Halafees” are able to deliver houseful courses in Leicester?
  4. I also posed similar question to a Senior British Mufti 3 weeks ago on the phone about some other (Deobandi) Islamic institute.
  5. We also have the case of Sunniforum? WHO is responsible for decimating and destroying a platform of nearly 10,000 Deobandees?

If people don’t want to subject key stakeholders and decision makers to scrutiny (for whatever reasons) lets draw a line and move forward.

If Halafees are taking over the world, what are your institutes doing  to produce individuals capable enough to counter their Dawah?

Until there is serious soul searching article about Halafi (or Halafees since there also appears to be a plural) won’t achieve much.

Doebandees have 750+ Mosques and 10+ Darul-ulooms in Britain, unprecedented amounts of money, expertise and resources on their fingertips. Deobandi Masajid & Darul-ulooms can do fundraising in the hundreds of thousands at the drop of a hat for extending Minarets and installing chanadlliers

How come they are being challenged by Halafees who don’t have even 1/10th of the resources and infrastructure of the Deobandees in Britain?

WHO MAKES THESE DECISIONS WHICH HAVE COST DEOBANDEES SO MUCH? DECISIONS WHICH HAVE RESULTED IN THEIR SUPERMECY BEING CHALLENGED IN THEIR OWN BACKYARD?

report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Agree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Rajab's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
1,857
Brother
913
Rajab's avatar
#21 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2015 16:26
Isn't Imtiyaz Damiel a deobandi Alim?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
3,396
Brother
3,773
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
#22 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2015 17:01
Rajab wrote:
View original post


Have you read the first page of this thread?
The term Halafis has been coined to describe Deobandis who have completed their studies in Saudi Arabia and have therefore adopted certain aspects of, Salafi aqeedah. So in effect they are being categorised as Salafified Deobandis.

The Ismail Ibrahim chap in the above article states...IN CONCLUSION, there's not much to be said really other than what a participant on the Muftisays Deobandi forum just contributed, who is able to look right through the hogwash: "How sad. The Deobandi masajid and institutions in the west should put up big disclaimers stating the contents of that letter. Let them know that they have to convert to deobandism and become a member of the clique if they expect to be treated as a fellow Muslim brother and become a part of that society. Oh yeah and don't forget to add "don't question anything!!" "

Well he fails to mentioned that the Brother who made the statement reviewed his stance after fully reading the article in the original post...The Original article is about "Halafis" teaching at Deobandi Dar Ul ulooms. Which is a fair objection By Deobandis to raise is it not?



report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
3,396
Brother
3,773
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
#23 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2015 17:23
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post



For me the fascinating issue is that how is it that this elderly Scholar (who is now in his Eighties) www.muftisays.com/forums/75-books/10070-an-echo-of-the-he... Hazrat Abdullah Kopravardi (db), is able to come to the U.K. and describe the exact challenges that are facing the muslim community living in Britain and what needs to be done? Whilst The ulemah in the UK who have lived here for decades seem blissfully unaware.

The Book Echoes of the Heart is a transcript of lectures delivered I presume more then a decade ago.

Another interesting thing is, he mentioned all those years ago that there where ancient manuscripts in Birmingham university, and at the Bodelian Library at Oxford University, and that the Ulemah needed to put an academic team together to study those manuscripts..He is what I would call a Classical pro-active Deobandi Scholar.

The so-called new-phenomenon of Halafis seem to have their finger on the pulse, and are able to connect with the youth. So the future is here and it is probably Halafi...! But if they that is the Halafis, develop the Salafi habit of hammering everyone who is against their version of salafism, they will end up in the same way as the Salafi Dawah of the 1990's and implode.

On the opposite end, their seems to be a lot of envy, directed towards the Students of Shaykh Zulfiqar Ahmed (DB).. The Likes of Shaykh Tauqeer Chaudry (DB) and Mufti Kamaludin Ahmed (DB), alot of Masjids no longer let them do Bayaans in their masjid when they visit the U.K. because they seem to attract the youth better then those who are permanently based in the U.K.

report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,011
Brother
881
#24 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 10:39
I mentioned the following in another group:

His post is full of nonsense.

1) The original article has no mention of Ibn Taymiyya. Red herring. He is responding to a ghost.

2) The usual emotional unity hippy talk. No substance.

3) None of the stuff he's talking about is mentioned in the article. Another red herring.

4) Defending your beliefs from being tainted by deviant ideas is something everyone agrees to. The guy himself has a 100+ page thread on Islamic Awakening forum attacking Deobandis.

5) Salafis ARE upon batil. Just because he fails to see this it doesn't change that fact.

6) A gross misinterpretation of the creed of the Hanafis. The orthodox Hanafis have always been Maturidi in 'aqida - to the extent that in 'aqida, Maturidi and Hanafi are used synonymously. Eg.

كان حنفي المعتقد

7) This is just an attack on Maulana Ismaeel Nakhuda full of nonsensical bogus. Someone should send him the following:

a. ahlussunnah.boards.net/thread/36/refutation-imtiyaz-damiel

b. ahlussunnah.boards.net/thread/108/discussion-maulana-ismaeel-nakhuda-sajid

8) Just another opportunity to attack taqlid shakhsi. Nothing to do with the article. Another red herring.

The rest of his post is just more nonsense and he quotes someone else from the Muftisays Forum (I think it may be Muadh Khan) - who himself doesn't know what he's talking about as can be gleaned from his actual comment. It's very hard to believe either of the two actually read the article.

CONCLUSION

Nobody cares what this guy says and they really shouldn't care either. He is nothing more than a keyboard warrior who spent most of his life attacking Deobandis, Ash'aris, Maturidis etc. on his little forum - keep in mind that all of this was while he had already matured and not while he was a hot blooded teen. He has difficulty understanding what he's reading a lot of the time as can be seen in some of his discussions on his own forum - see especially his discussions with Hasan Saleem. He has no academic worth and has deteriorated to the level of ranting on social media.

Read more: ahlussunnah.boards.net/thread/341/halafi-onslaught#ixzz3m...
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,011
Brother
881
#25 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 10:49
The above was a response to Ismail patel's article which he posted on facebook etc and posted on this thread.

To be fair the person who made the best analysis of the original article by maulana ismail nakhuda db was brother uwais namazi. He explained the whole scenario. I'm at work but if someone can copy it from Islamic awakening it is a very fair assessment of the whole situation.

Sadly what happens in this case and in other cases is our reaction is entirely disproportionate and biased. Are the mistakes and attitudes of ismail ibrahim any less than the collosal mistake of advocating istigatha that was done by mufti muhammad ibn adam. Why is mufti muhammad bin adam still allowed to teach and considered a deobandi considering his pro-mawlid, pro istigatha (he retracted) and other stances. How about those ebrahim college guys who advocate all sorts? Do they get away with it because they have a darse e nizami title and still show some reverence to their Dewsbury teachers?

There are too many questions.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,011
Brother
881
#26 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 10:53
london786 wrote:
View original post

Brother uwais's points related to the original post;

From UN (edited) - shows you that this sectarianism was - and still is - completely out of hand:

Just catching up on the discussion. The Moududi inclined scholar here, referred to in Mol Madani's letter, was Mol Habibur Rahman Matadar. He was a gifted teacher and scribe. The Urdu Islami Taleem we read and used at Maktabs was written by him.

He maintained correspondence with Mol Moududi during Mol Adam's time, before Mol Ismail Manubari took over. Mol Adam did nothing about it, it's only when Mol Ismail took over that he made it into an issue.

That a teacher should be dismissed for his views or affiliations is not what concerns me here, as I know Muslims are the first to cling onto religious freedoms and rights in the work space and are demanding more and more.

It's how he was dismissed that I take occasion with. He was made to stand in front of the entire madressah and "repent". After he said whatever words he was asked to say, about never reading the works of Moududi again, he was told to leave and never come back.

Makes my blood boil.

But guess what, it didn't end there. When Mol Habibur Rahman visited the UK in the 80-90s, the khatme nabuwwat champions decided to grass him to the cops for over staying his visit.

He subsequently spent time in jail, in Leeds, me thinks, and he has written about his experience there.

But it really goes to show, at least for me, that the anti Moududi vitriol is/was out of hand.

I recommend reading Nadwi's obituary of Moududi for a bit of perspective.

Nadwi's critiques of Moududi are many, but he never criticised him by name. The only exception is التفسير السياسي للإسلام

The suggestion that he became more critical near the end of his life is not true. He maintained balance and composure right to the end of his life.

The tafsir siyasi is an interesting booklet. I'm surprised by its recent publication by a Salafi scholar, who used it to condemn the Ikhwanis... at a time when Mol Salman has been championing the ikhwani cause all across the subcontinent and beyond!

The author does note Nadwi was a bit of a deviant for his sufi inclinations, nonetheless he was a faqih who had far reaching insight, and his analysis of ikhwan was enlightening!
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,011
Brother
881
#27 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 11:06
If anybody looks at brother Uwais's comments and sees the context of the original letter and what happened thereafter the pubic humiliation, taubah and sacking. Is this the prophetic way of dealing with matters? Reminds me of a maulana in our local area who made a mawdudi repent by asking him to hand out leaflets outside the masjid mentioning his repentence. Would we say the same to mufti muhammad ibn adam to stand outside his respected father's khanqah and handing out leaflets displaying his repentence from istigatha. Also on what issues does it end/not end. How about the other side of the coin where sufis like abdul hakim murad are poisoning deobandis. Could we start a campaign against this side as well i.e. the brelvi leaning deobandi side or is it limited to the salafi leaning deobandi side?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
112
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#28 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 11:50

Deobandi Duplicity 1 (SOUTH AFRICA):

  1. They have hounded Mufti Ismail Menk (HA) for years
  2. Same South Africans have no problems working with Junaid Jamshed

Deobandi Duplicity 2 (UK):

  1. The honourable father of Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) has spent 3 decades chastising British Muslims for sending their daughters to Univeristies
  2. Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) on the other hand regularly visits universities and addresses gatherings of both male and female students

You can write an entire catalogue on Shaykh (Mufti) Ibn Adam (HA) and how he differs with his father who says NOT A THING about his own son (at all).

Deobandi Duplicity 3 (PAKISTAN):

  1. They hounded Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) for 40 years for no reason but the fact that he isn't Deoandi, his hounding was pretty much unanimous
  2. The grandson of Shaykh (Maulana) Maulana Sarfaraz Khan Safdar (RA) is fulltime associate of Dr Javed Ghamdi and there is NO true refutation except from some circles

Deobandi Duplicity 4 (USA):

  1. They issue reservations about Nauman Ali Khan
  2. Silent about Deobandees who attend ISNA conventions

Deobandi Confusion 5 (English Speaking Word):

  1. South African Deoandees issue warnings about Ibn Taymiyyah (RA), throw him out of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaat
  2. British Deoandees claim that Ibn Taymiyyah (RA) was a bonafide Sufi and address him as Shaykhul-Islam

www.deoband.org/2015/09/tasawwuf/shariah-and-tariqah-tasa...

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
3,396
Brother
3,773
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf's avatar
#29 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 12:05
With all these internal disputes, so is this the beginning of the end of Deobandism ?

Looking at the bigger picture are the Muslims on the road to Andalucia...? Remember an old lecture by the original version Shaykh Hamza Yusuf (DB)
back in the 1990's, mentioning, how when the forces of Kuffar had literally gathered at their boarders to exterminate the muslims in Islamic spain, The Scholars were busy in theological argumentations such as "Does Allah have Hand, like Humans have a hand"...!

As George Santaya wrote many decades ago.."Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it..!"

The new inquisition is at the doorstep.....!
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,011
Brother
881
#30 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2015 12:17
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
View original post

I think this is slightly exaggerated. Deobandism is on a high. What is saving is is the constant recruits of the tablighi jamaat who naturally align themselves to deobandi masjids. The 2nd is the maktab system. So make no mistake deoband is here to stay. What is happening in my limited understanding is that these are some fights in very limited circles, online mostly and on the ground most deobandis and others are just normal practicing muslims.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top