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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 30th October 2015 04:58
Interesting wrote:
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Why do you think, akhi, that the time of Deoband has come to an end?

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2015 08:26
Objective of This Thread


My purpose in this thread was to focus on those aspects of life that have not received due attention in the Deoband exegesis of Islam.

Yet I have not been able to breach in that topic owing to obvious hesitation.

One can not simply be too grateful to Deoband.
Suppose they had not been there.
What would we do?

Barelwi interpretation is so close to Islam, in fact it is closest to Deoband interpretation.
Yet can we walk from Bareilly to Deoband on our own without the help from our elders?
I do not think so.

Then let us take various Ghair Muqallid interpretations.
Ahl-ul-Hadith, Jama-at-e-Islami, Ikhwan-ul-Muslimoon, Salafi A, ..., Salafi Z.
Every single one of them is so suffocating that one can not simply survive the journey from GM version to real Islam on his own.

Of course to some extent most of the other inpterpretations are reactions to the Deoband version.
But that is an academic issue.
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2015 10:49
salaam

if there was no mass migration from the sub-continent to uk, would we even have deobandism and barelvism in the uk?
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2015 12:02
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xs11ax wrote:
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W-Salam,

Yes because...

If you look at really old (English) books and magazines (40-50) years ago in the West they are mostly:

  1. Deobandi
  2. Jamaat-e-Islami (Maulana Maududi (RA))

The material being produced 50 years ago was in touch and in tune with the Muslims and their needs of the times. Somehow Deoband became more and more insular until at this point they have minimal impact in the lives and problems of Western Muslims outside of Masjid/Maktab/Madrasah environments.

Apart from Paris Attacks take a good look at what Deobandi Ulama are discussing and these are:

  1. Taqleed
  2. Tassawuff
  3. Conspiracy theories about Paris Attacks

NOT A SINGLE ONE can come forward and lead the Muslims in a mature, professional, orchesterated way.

In India Hindus lynched a Muslim on suspicion of eating beef in the very state that both Darul-uloom Deoband and Mazahirul-uloom exist. What was the reaction of the Ulama? Did they offer any meaningful guidance to Indian Muslims?

Ulama keep retracting, keep retracting to their Darul-uloom walls UNTIL a time will come when their walls won't be safe. They will call upon people to Join their plight and people won't because Ulama never stood for anything else.

Sooner or later British Government is bound to do something to Darul-ulooms, mark my words that British Muslims are likely  to shrug their shoulders and move on BECAUSE the ground work has not been done.

Apart from a minority, stop any British Muslim in the streets of London and Birmingham and ask:

Do you know who Maulana Yusuf Motala (HA) is and what is his contribution to your life?

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2015 12:35
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It is doubtful, most literature and periodicals being produced in English, before the mass migration in the 1950's was by the Qadiyanis.

They had a strong prescence The Woking mosque was under their control, the Islamic Review was published, by them, An English translation by Muhammad Ali Lahori of the Quran was published by Lahori branch of Qadiyanis and many other works of literature.

The works by Deobandis, Jammat e Islami, and Barelvis appeared only after the mass migration not prior.

The only other community that has been around for decades, is the Yemeni community, and their is small Somali community in Cardiff that has been around since the 40's they originally arrived as sailors.



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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2015 12:55

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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I would respectfully disagree with that. After having trolled through many old Masajid  (in USA and UK) and old literature. I found much of it from Professors from India/Pakistan and much derived from Deobandi books.

The Arab material in English hardly existed.

Even if we were to look at Qur'aan translations then Pickhthall and Abdullah Yusuf Ali were popular.

Please note that I am not arguing about the ethnic origins of communities or whether the material was "Islamically sound" or not but there is no denying that old (Islamic) material had a distinct Deobandi (and Jamaat-e-Islami) touch to it.

Maryam Jameelah reached out to Maulana Maududi because his fame had reached her (in America) in 1961 when the immigrant community in America was in its infancy.

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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2015 13:06

We must not also forget Orientalists like Charles Hamilton. This version of Hedaya was all Hanafi Muslims had 50-60 years ago in the West when it came to Fiqh.

Universities & Acadamicians also referred to this as the ultimate reference for Islamic Jurisprudence.

Qadiyanees like to portray themselves and falsely insert themselves into the picture. This week in Pakistani newspapeers they are trying to falsify history by proclaiming that Allamah Iqbal had doen Bay't at the hands of Mirza Basheer (I think).

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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2015 13:36
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Its been a while since I read it in the book on correspondence letters, between Maulana Mawdoodi, and Maryam Jameelah, from what i recall Mentions there was very little literature available in English and her intiall exposure was to the Works of Qadiyanis published in Woking U.K.

The Qadiyanis were patronised by the British and had a presence in the thirties and forties and beyond... prior to the mass migration of Muslims to UK, Maryam Jameelah mentions one of her earliset exposure to the true teachings of Islam was the Tafseer of Maulana Abdul Majid Daryabadi.

And Maulana Abdul Majid Darybadi mentions that after reading the works of English Philosophers he became an agnostic, in 1918 he read the English Translation By Muhammad Ali Lahori (AQadiyani), which re-ignited his passion for Islam.



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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2015 13:50

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Doesn't she mention Modernists and free thinkers to Maulana Maududi? I think that’s why she was disillusioned and wanted to write to Maulana, I may be wrong because it has been a long time since I read those letters.

The issue Maulana Mohammad Ali and his endorsement is because (earlier) Ulama considered him to be "Lahori" and thus they cut him some slack but I agree with you about (earlier) tributes to his Qur'aan translation.

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2015 14:01
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I have the book in Library I will take a look at what she has exactly written...!
For those who have not read it..It is a book worth having in the Library remarkable Woman, Maryam Jameelah
(May Allah grant her al firdous) .
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 24th November 2015 02:23
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I would appreciate if the ulama could teach us the fiqh of g had and the fiqh of establishing a kalif and how it would co exist with other nations etc. I Notice a lot of people on social media openly supporting certain groups even though they themselves are NOT into violence, and since so many groups are going about these issues the wrong way I think the right way should be taught and clarified.

We also have on the other end those who are just comfortable working and living life and practicing islam the best that they can in their environment and have no desire or wish to be able to practice fully or to be safe from all the fitna around us.

I appreciate that this task would be a bit tricky because things can be taken out of context and the lecturer could find himself in trouble.

If there are already any simple works in English that give a balanced view of these issues let me know.
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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 24th November 2015 05:47
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I would appreciate if the ulama could teach us the fiqh of g had and the fiqh of establishing a kalif and how it would co exist with other nations etc. I Notice a lot of people on social media openly supporting certain groups even though they themselves are into violence, and since so many groups are going about these issues the wrong way I think the right way should be taught and clarified.

I doubt akhi that our Ulama are going to do so any time soon.

The way no one can say a single word against Israel in the US in the same way no one can talk about above issues.

Normally G!h@d is merely what modern democracy calls the ministry of defence yet that word can not be used.
The antagonism against Islam and Muslims having any intrinsic defence mechanism is complete and there is international concensus over it. The story really goes back to crusades. Crusades were over in a few centuries yet the corresponding mentality remain intact - only more deeply ingrained and elevated to a thumb rule as well as embedded in the psyche of the west. It has by now permeated into, figuratively, DNA. From crusades it naturally passed into colonialism where the inheritors of crusaders annihilated half a doesn Muslim empires, and occupied Muslim lands for varied durations in last thwo centuries. After that the US has naturally taken over where the Europe had left the Islamophobic slent. Since the grip of european colonialism was near complete over Muslim lands their intellectual control too was near complete and that is today managed by the US in general and shared by Europe. They simply will not allow Muslims to think for themselves.

The Deoband elders did start with G!h@d itself. They soon were decimated and realized that not only political and military independence was threatened but even the very existence of Deen was in question.

So they simply changed their course of action and decided to save the teachings of Islam rather then fighting a war for political and military ends. That has become the dominant character of Deoband today.

This automatically brings us to the question as to what should we Muslims do in face of the western onslaught against us?

As you might have guessed from my posts my approach is academic.
At intellectual level we got to engage the west and tell them that they have unduly encroached upon our life space - scientific, technological, social, cultural, trade wise, industrial, economic, commercial, business, military and political. We would like our life space back.

They are not going to concede anyone of these but at academic level we can assert all of this in the same manner in which Maulana Rehmatullah Kairanvi, Dr Wazir Khan, late Ahmed Deedat, dr Zakir Naik, Shabir Ally and Ali Ataie have done in the field of theology. We got to mount an academic onslaught on the west.

I have been saying these things in Aligarh for last few years but I do not have a single folllower amongst the academic community here. So far I have not taken the student community on board. may be I should do that immediately.

Quote:
We also have on the other end those who are just comfortable working and living life and practicing islam the best that they can in their environment and have no desire or wish to be able to practice fully or to be safe from all the fitna around us.


You have correctly identified the disease. Our people are pathetically petrified.

Quote:
I appreciate that this task would be a bit tricky because things can be taken out of context and the lecturer could find himself in trouble.

Agree.
This statement should be a banner.
If you are not a terrorist then why give others a chance to cast you as one?
Yet we fear, we dither, we tremble, we shiver, we melt down we evaporate.
How pathetic!

Clearly the way out is to take all precaution so that the crafty people just can not slap the T-word on you and go full throttle.

And honestly speaking there is this acute need for the academic assertion on part for the west is simply dumbfound as to what is happening. This is the time to explain to them that we do have grievances and we understand so many things better than them.
Quote:

If there are already any simple works in English that give a balanced view of these issues let me know.

Akhi please understand the following.
Deoband explanation is the best explanation of Islam.
Let alone G!h@d they have not put enough energy into any other aspect of worldly life and hence they know precious little about those matters.
We can do a lot for Ummah without falling into the gray zone of armed conflict.
We have to do that ourselves.
Even the fiqh of social, interaction, cultural energing of Ummah, revival of our Commerce-Business-industry-economy-trade-finance, our political organization, our scientific health, our technological prowess - this all has to be done by us.
we can take whatever help we need from deoband but , I am afraid, most of the spade work has to be done by us only.
By us I mean we the Muslims with modern education.
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 26th November 2015 05:16
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Ya akhi-al-aziz this is a strawman argument.
We are not claiming that the time of Deoband has come to an end.

In a report card one has to list the achiements as well as the prospects.

My purpose is to focus on what is essential for us Muslims in the world today and yet not covered by Deoband and how to compensate for that.

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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2015 08:43
The Taqleed Conundrum


We have the moon sighting dichotomy amongst our Ulama.
Our Dar-ul-Uloom got bifurcated in 1982 ( of course there was another one long ago that created the Dabhel branch).
The same happened to Mazahir Uloom.

Sometimes it creates very taxing situation for us laymen about Taqleed.
We are the people who have to take care of our job, vegetable purchase and laundary.
Thus it was a monumental blessing that Ulama were taking care of our theology.

But it was difficult earlier too.
How to digest the Shia bifurcation from us?
If they belong to a false sect then how did it survive, or thrive, for so long?

The Fiqh quatro itself was no small pill to digest but the ultimate solution is really a good one.
The GM ( Salafi, Ahlul-Hadith, Ikhwanul Muslimoon, Jama-at-e-Islami) and Barelwis do pose additional problems.
It is not very dignified to keep listening to their barbs.

There there are above mentioned internal divisions.

These problems are very irritating for modern educated Muslims.
Modern educated Muslims can not be convinced that intellect is all memorization and there are no other types of intelligences.
A thinking modern Muslim will find it very difficult to digest the suggestion that we refer each and every issue that detractors hurl at us to the Ulama. They do want to be privy to those issues for which they can find time to analyze.

Other brothers and sisters might come up with more issues.
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2015 19:47


(salam)

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
in 1918 he read the English Translation By Muhammad Ali Lahori (AQadiyani), which re-ignited his passion for Islam.


Hazrat Maulana Abdul Majid Daryabadi (rah) home-coming to Islam was when his friend ( a hindu prominent figure whose name i cannot recollect at the moment) gifted him the Mathnawi of Hazrat Maulana Jalaluddin Rumi (rah)

After reading he commented that if he were to die that moment and the angels questioned him in the grave.. he would simply reply them that his Aqaid and deen were same as that of Hazrat Maulana Jalaluddin Rumi (rah)..

The above was told to me by my dear grandfather who was quite close with Hazrat Maulana (rah) and kept correspondence with him through letters..

duas..

wa Assalam..
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