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Love of one's shaykh is more than Rasulullah sallhualhiwasalam

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abu mohammed, the fake shaykh, ak1
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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 17:38
The root cause is Ta'assub and asabiah is from Jahiliyyah. We can find this great evil in all islamic groups.

The reason why Nationalism and all such -isms are condemned is due to Asabiah. Any and every form of Asabiah has to be condemned.

Rasulullah sallahu alaihi wasallam made great efforts to uproot Asabiah by inculcating Ukhuwiyyah and Ubudiyya.

Highlighting Asabiah will only flagrate the differences rather always promote the message of Brotherhood.

Wassalam.
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 17:52
The aim of all efforts is "obedience to Allah Subhanawataala and his messenger Prophet Muhammed sallallahu alayhi wa sallam", if the effort/mashaykh/ulama have this drilled in to the minds of those connected to it/them then I do not see what the OP is witnessing happening, but unfortunately something is getting lost in translation and the purpose is clouded to say the least and it becomes like a cult and more about personalities.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 18:04
Brother Muadh,

O.K. I clarify a bit.

1: Mufti sb raised the issue of socalled fabricated ahadis of Fazail e amal.... Right?

2: It seems that You agree with him that this book has some fabricated ahadis...... Right?

Since these ahadis are not in my cognizance except allegations on some anecdotes of pious buzurg and I was under the impression that your aware of those ahadis, this is why I asked you to point out those ahadis.

Now leave it,

Br Abu Mohammed has clarified that this issue has already been discussed on this forum.

In shaa Allah I'll study this issue in threads myself.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 18:16
Arfatzafar wrote:
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Dear brother, you should focus on brother Muadh's intention and ignore the APPARENT bashing style. Everyone has limitations.

You should search SF threads regarding Fazaile Amaal and in one thread Mufti Husain saheb discussed the issue WITH EXPLANATION that why Shaykhul Hadith saheb رحمة الله عليه did it.
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 18:37
I think brothers involved in Tasawwuf are being mainly accused of Shaykh/Hazrat worshipping. But this double standard is widely found among workers of Tableegh. Just utter a word of disagreement (let alone insult) regarding any view of Moulana Sa'd saheb, you'll figure out the other side of well mannered TJ brothers.

Last year atheist bloggers started writing all sorts of filthy stuffs blatantly. Deobandi 'Ulama gathered under a single banner and protested. This was CLEARLY AN IJMA of the 'Ulama. But Tableeghi workers remained silent (it's hikmah!) and I was stunned when heard about negative views of many elders and old workers regarding 'Ulama's peaceful protest. This is not any slander, but the truth. However numerous GENERAL workers didn't care about elders' opinion and joined with 'Ulama.
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 19:03
Black Turban wrote:
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That's why I mentioned "efforts and mashaykh" and just so know one gets left out "ulama"

Across the board we see this, no need to get into specific groups/personalities.


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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 19:16
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I am at your Service 24 hours a day and will respond to every single one of your query with patience and diligence ON THREE CONDITIONS:

1) Please respond that you have read and understand the post
2) Please respond that the issue of Fabriacted Hadeeth is NEITHER raised by me nor have am I BEHIND the issue
3) I am NOT a Scholar of Hadeeth to be making any SUCH claims!

Happy to answer ONCE you have paid attention and responded.

Black Turban wrote:
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I swear by Allah (SWT) that I am not bashing him at all!

I want to make sure that he has UNDERSTOOD what I am saying very clearly and without any ambiguity whatsoever because he has the propensity to misunderstood and then go off a tangent with his version of the story.

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 20:26
The OP has confused the issue a bit.The love of our Prophet sallallaho alaihe wa sallam can not be compared with anyone,including Shaikh and even our parents or our off springs :

1) Shaikh is loved because we think he is a good follower of the prophet sallallaho alaihe wa sallam,and can make us to be like him through his training...meaning...the basis of the love of a Shaikh is in reality 'the love of prophet' sallallaho alaihe wa sallam.Just imagine,if one,s Shaikh leave Islam,will he still be loved ? NEVER !

2) Loving one,s Shaikh or fighting for his honour ( which is termed 'Shaikh worship' on this thread ) has limited repercussions and consequences for the rest of the society,as the sphere of influence of a Shaikh is limited,no matter how big it seems.The issues related to the prophet concerns the whole umma with wide repercussions.Tolerance and restraint is advised only because,sadly so,we are not mature enough to show our anger in a solid, concrete and organised way.We are dealing with people who understands only two kinds of responses,THE POWER OF A GUN and THE POWER OF ECONOMIC GAIN OR LOSS.

It is unfortunate,that in most cases we turn out to burn our own assets,destroy our own infrastructure in our own countries in situations where we protests against 'insults hurled at our master sallallaho alaihe wa sallam' by Kuffar ...and hence become a laughing stock for the rest of the world.We never stop using the products of the country concerned etc,which could make them think twice before they act.

3) Restraint is advised in those countries,where Muslims are in minority.Even there it is never advised to do nothing....the only advise given is to register protest within the bounds of law,because by not doing so we are in reality opening the doors for other Fitna,s for the umma.....both from within and from outside.

4) Those who consider a Shaikh simply 'an individual to be followed'....are committing a big mistake.Shaikh is a teacher who teaches the ways of the prophet sallallaho alaihe wa sallam...and that is the only reason he is respected and loved."Hazrat worship" means to love and respect him on his own merit irrespective of sharia,which is not the case and should not be so.He is a Shaikh as long as he is practicing and teaching the path of Syedena Muhammad sallallaho alaihe wa sallam...the moment he deviates from the path he is no more a Shaikh.The criteria of our love for him is adherence to sharia....and therefore his committement to the prophet sallallaho alaihe wa sallam.

In short....this comparison is wrong to begin with.....
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 20:44

Anonymous wrote:
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There is absolutely no problem with loving, honouring and paying due deference to one’s Shaykh as it can be inferred that he has more rights than our Biological parents because former adorns our afterlife while later only this life (possibly).

“Hazrat Worship” is being vindictive, abusive, slanderous, presumptuous and enraged at the slightest hint of disrespect towards one’s Shaykh which a person has actually MISUNDERTSOOD or the other person has DISAGREED with a Shaykh in the presence of valid, sound and comprehensive Islamic evidence.

“Hazrat Worship” is also conclusively turning away from the main body and united opinion of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah and following one’s Shaykh when the matter is clearly understood and fathomed.

Most importantly “Hazrat Worship” is believing that Haqq is ONLY found with MY Shaykh!

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 20:55
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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From the etiquettes of social life by Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi RA:

1 . Teachers and Spiritual Guides have numerous rights, yet
in lesser degrees than those of the parents. Those people are
mistaken who have given preference to the rights of Teachers and
Spiritual Guiders over those of the parents. Perhaps they argue
that the parents bring up their children in their outwardly and
physical development and the Teachers and the Spiritual Guides
give them innerand spiritual education. The superiority of the soul
over the body is quite obvious, but this argument is weak and
unreliable, because the superiority of one to the other is only
partial, not total. The superiority of some thing to another thing
from one aspect may negate the superiority of the latter to the
former from some other aspect. The Qur'an and the Hadith also
do not attach any special importance to the rights of Teachers and
Spiritual Guides as they do with regard to the rights of the parents.
The rights of Teachers and Spiritual Guides arise from their
service in education and spiritual training only. As against this, the
parents bring up and breed their children with great painstaking
and selfless love. They do not withhold their natural love, attention
and care for their children in spite of their impudence and
rebellion. They sacrifice their heart and soul for their children. On
the contrary, the Teachers and the Spiritual Guides do not tolerate
the least offence and disrespect. Reward is in proportion to work.
As the work of the parents is harder and more difficult, their status
is also greater and higher. In very exceptional cases some
parents are found less loving and sympathetic with their children
than the Teachers and the Spiritual Guides. But this happens very
rarely and is ignorable. It cannot form a basis for the general rule.
Mind carefully that the basis is that which has been stated above.
Discharge the rights of Teachers and Spiritual Guides heart and
soul as you receive from them attributes of humanity and Allah's
pleasure, yet mind the prescribed limits. This brief essay is
sufficient for the occasion.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 21:17

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Again your understanding is very flawed and your premise that to disagree with someone is to disrespect him and in order to respect and love someone it is required to agree with him perpetually.

Ibn `Abbas said: "Barirah's husband was a slave, who was known as Mughith. I can almost see him, running after her and crying, with tears running down onto his beard. The Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said to `Abbas, `O `Abbas, do you not find it strange, how much Mugith loves Barirah, and how much Barirah hates Mughith?' The Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said (to Barirah), `Why do you not go back to him?' She said, `O Messenger of Allah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam), are you commanding me to do so?' He said, `I am merely trying to intervene on his behalf.' She said, `I have no need of him.'" [Fathal-Bari]

Here you see Sayyida Barirah (RA) clearly disagreeing with Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam). Your whole argument about love, care, admiration falls flat because he is the incident which you can neither deny nor explain using your framework.

The only premise which the Sufees present is that this wasn't a Huk'm of Shariah and there are 2 importants points to the response:

  1. Why would someone disagree or deliberately disobey a Hukm of Shariah? Shaykh or no Shaykh?

  2. This was a liking of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) i.e. he intended (liked) for her to do this which she turned down! Imagine the liking of a "Hazrat" in comparison

In short, nobody is denying the right of Mashaykh nor denying them their stature. We can start the conversation from this position to which we all agree upon.

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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 5th June 2014 21:19
Guest-22542 wrote:
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My word whats going on, don't think members need to be taught to suck eggs, it's common knowledge all humans and living creatures have a right over each other, nobody is disputing that.

It's simple, Allah's laws come first, and if you follow the TEACHINGS of a shaykh with the correct etiquettes it's fine. A shaykh is human, and yes jump on my case for saying this he is prone to err. I have a shaykh he says that all people have something called the intellect 'aql' where as instead of making basic decisions they will still want the shaykhs last say on it, the shaykh is just a means.

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 6th June 2014 01:10
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Whoa! I used the word "APPARENT" to mean- "seeming real or true, but not necessarily so". (Source: Oxford Dictionary)

PS: I don't know what made you think that somehow I've engaged myself in conspiracy against you. Personal matters are personal (exchange of mails) and I don't mix it up with public affairs. In no way I'm intending to jump on the bandwagon to "refute" you as I know clearly my position and that of you.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 6th June 2014 01:11
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Salam

The post was simply quoting a passage from Hazrat Thanwi RA book. Your response appears to be completely irrelevant.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 6th June 2014 01:14
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Jazakallah. This is the best post here, and if I was a member, I would put "Like" on it or "Agree".

You appear to have a very clear understanding of the principles of at work.
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