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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 25th May 2014 03:41
(salam)

Undoubtedly in this time a rambling threat for this Ummah is secularism. It is tantamount to atheism. According to my (limited) observation, both groups use similar arguments against religions (obviously Islam occupies top position of the list). Atheists are straight and clear regarding their faith. But secularists can be compared to hypocrites- they conceal their atheistic beliefs to save themselves from rage of religious people. They impose absurd laws by the name of their flawed version of humanity. It's an undeniable fact that they have triumphed in implementing their plots.

Our efforts to counter these fitnahs are very limited. While talking about refuting atheists, William Lane Craig's name pops up- an American evangelist. Despite numerous inconsistencies in Bible he fights tooth and nail to make sense. On the contrary we have very few. We have well versed 'Ulama to comprehensively discuss even trivial issues of Deen. Alhamdulillaah, that's a great blessing from Allaah سبحانه وتعالى. But, is there any Shaykh to fight secularism? Atheism? There are individuals like Hamza Tzortzis. But how can we rely on individuals? We need more- the bigger fitnah, the bigger resistance.

I've started this thread to raise concern about these two severe threats. We debate over minor issues for hours and days, we present arguments and counter arguments, we use our intellect to establish our position. Why don't we indulge ourselves in resolving bigger problems? Take lesson from brother Hani (aka TripolySunni). He is not any famous Shaykh, he doesn't possess shiny-sparkly degrees in Islamic sciences. Yet his service against Shi'ites is unique. Now an online community (HCY) has been established by individuals like him.

So let's ponder on these. We have many works of our extraordinary 'Ulama who had the foresight to write to defend our creed. Now we require involvement of people who are well educated in Islamic and natural sciences. Alhamdulillaah we have many.

Now please share your thoughts about possible strategies.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 25th May 2014 09:46
(salaam)

Concept of secularism what's commonly understood is that all citizens will be given fundamental rights equally without any discrimination concerning caste, creed, religion, colour, region and language, moreover, ruler will not represent a particular religion which he believes in though. He'll treat all multi-religious people with impartiality and in unbiased manner.

Concept of ecumenism in a secular state isn't bad per se wherein all religions are free to flourish but it doesn't mean that a state should adopt Relativism, syncretism, atheism or perennialism to treat the people equally.

Its our observation that in an Islamic state or in a Muslim-majority- country, non Muslims arent allowed to build their places of worship but we want to be allowed to construct our masajid in a non Muslim-majority-country.

We need to grow inter-religious tolerance views. Unfortunately, we're intolerant even to intra-religious issues.

If the demolition of Budhha's idol in Bamiyan is good in our eyes then the demolition of Babri Masjid is also good in the eyes of non Muslims.

See the lives of our ancestors- at one call of 'Allahu Akbar'- enemies would tremble of fear. Why?
And why not now?

Compare the lives of ours and non Muslims- hardly any difference will be observed.

We want the revival of Islamic khilafah but how? Never wish to see the ground realities. We want to change others but don't think of changing ourselves.

See the lives of Hazrat Sahaba ikram rz.a. They couldn't spend a peaceful life like us. History reveals that they'd to go for jihad every 35th day. They spent a very simple and hard life but we're unwilling to leave this luxurious life. We know that this worldly life is like a prison and in prison one can't stay happily.

Indeed, we're Exclusivists because of Islam but it doesn't mean that we're entitled to suppress other people. When we brag of being Muslim without sincerity they, instead of, being scared of us, are more and more irritated.

Peaceful-Proslytizing is the only way to change the world provided that we initiate it with ourselves.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 02:00
After a brief study I've found that atheists themselves have made our task easier. Wikipedia has presented different concepts of atheism viz. Practical atheism and Theoretical atheism: Ontological arguments, Epistemological arguments, Metaphysical arguments, Logical arguments, Reductionary accounts of religion.

They have given us opportunity to narrow down this complicated list to a single item- New Atheism. Wikipedia defines it as:

New Atheism is a social and political movement in favour of atheism and secularism promoted by a collection of modern atheist writers who have advocated the view that "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises." There is uncertainty about how much influence the movement has had on religious demographics, but the increase in atheist groups, student societies, publications and public appearances has coincided with the non-religious being the largest growing demographic, closely followed by Islam and evangelicalism in the US and UK.

Inshallaah if we work on this concept which is now dominating the realm of atheists, that will be ample to cut the root of atheism and its offspring called secularism, modernism etc.

PS: Instead of ratings, self-criticism, topic appreciation etc, please contribute here by providing materials.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 11:32
New Atheism


(Highlighted parts from RationalWiki article)


New Atheism is a contemporary intellectual movement uniting outspoken atheists. The New Atheists' philosophies and arguments are generally consistent with those of their predecessors; what's "New" is a difference in style and profitability. Most of the prominent New Atheists have had at least one book become a bestseller, which was almost unheard of for atheistic literature in the past. New Atheists consider belief in God erroneous as well as detrimental to society, and espouse their views frequently and publicly. In the 21st century, many anti-religious thinkers have been the subject of media attention, although many reject the "New Atheist" label. While some prefer to call New Atheism a trend manufactured by the media (specifically, in a 2006 article featured in Wired) rather than a real organized movement, others later came to openly adopt the term, notably with Victor Stenger's publication of The New Atheism.

The term sometimes acts as a straw-man, as it can be used to define the tactics or personal beliefs of non-believers en masse, ignoring internal differences and tensions within the movement.

New Atheists may be contrasted with accomodationists, who argue that common ground may be found between the non-religious and those who have more moderate religious beliefs. Your typical New Atheist might respond that if religious moderates truly cared about social issues and public acceptance of science, they would ally themselves with atheists without demanding unilateral self-censorship on the part of the non-religious.

The New Atheists

A group of authors and speakers, who came to prominence after the year 2000, are generally considered to be "New Atheists" - the top four in particular are sometimes referred to as "the four horsemen". They are also joined, in theory, by numerous individuals on YouTube who have used the medium of the Internet to publicize their views more easily and widely than was possible before the start of the 21st Century. A large number of atheistic websites and articles also appeared on the web during this same period.

"The Four Horsemen"

In 2008, four prominent atheist authors got together to discuss religion and their positions. The DVD was entitled "The Four Horsemen" (in reference to the "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse") and ever since they have been referred to by this title. They are:

  • Richard Dawkins

  • Christopher Hitchens

  • Sam Harris

  • Daniel Dennett


Other "new" atheists

  • PZ Myers, evolutionary biologist and prolific blogger.

  • Victor J. Stenger, retired physicist, author of God: The Failed Hypothesis, and one of HuffPo's few non-woo bloggers.

  • Jerry Coyne, evolutionary biologist, author of Why Evolution is True and proprietor of a blog of the same name. He also coined the term "gnu atheism" in reference to the fact that "New" Atheism isn't really new.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 13:36
I personally think more needs to be done to tackle secularism, atheism, Darwinism and all the other 'Isms that exist out there. It's sad to see in my community that people are more focus on minute Fiqhi issues, like where to place the hands and doing Rafyul Yadain than issues that have more importance.

Scholars of the past would tackle issues that their communities were facing. Nowadays, these are the issues we're facing, and it seems not much is being done.

This was written by a learned brother on Facebook :



We have to work to supply our upcoming generations with the intellectual armor to counter doubts about Islam.

An answer I wrote to a question about dealing with the rise of atheism/agnosticism among Muslim youth. I wrote the answer with Pakistani society in particular in mind. Some points may not be as clear as they should be as simply I wrote whatever came to mind at the moment:

In the past, one could fairly safely assume that his children and grandchildren would be Muslim because he was living in a Muslim society, and his children would remain in the fold simply by virtue of socialization. We no longer have this luxury.

We have to equip young Muslims with rational proofs that validify their faith: rational proofs for the existence of God, and rational arguments proving the validity of the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم.

There are in fact some classical works that deal with these issues. One such excellent work is the "Tathbeet Dala'il al-Nabuwwa" by the famous Mu'tazili scholar, al-Qadi Abdul-Jabbar al-Hamadani. In this work, he analyzes the history of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and offers rational arguments to prove his Prophethood.

Such works from our classical heritage should be translated into English, Urdu and other languages to make them more accessible.

Furthermore, there is a need to take the rational arguments from such works and distill them into modern works and make them available to the modern reader. Islamic schools need to look to incorporate such material into their curricula. Institutions for training scholars should also look to equip their graduates to deal with such issues.

Daa'ees and khatibs should also try to draw attention to these topics.

And most importantly, it is the responsibility of the parents to make sure their children receive a good upbringing. This has now become an essential component of the upbringing that children need.

Finally, on a bit of a different note, it needs to be understood that the roots of this problem are not entirely intellectual in nature. A large element of it has simply to do with following desires and fulfillment of lusts. For many, Islam has become a barrier to fulfilling those desires and lusts, and this is their true motivation. The proliferation of filth on satellite television not to mention porn on the internet - among other factors - has played a role in breakdown of morals and values. We have to take measures to protect our children from these influences. Many parents naively think, my parent wouldn't look at/get involved in such things. Awareness on such matters is needed.

However, shielding our children and society from negative cultural influences such as media does not simply mean shutting them off. We have to work to create our own alternatives in light of our own history, culture and values. There is a need for our own Islamic media. I think the recent Arabic series on Umar's life - in spite of its flaws - is a very good example of the type of programming needed to counter Western culture and media and its negative influence on our youth.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 13:39
[Mods : Posted this while I wasn't logged in above. Please delete it.]

Double post removed (authorizer edit)
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 17:58
(salam)

I agree with most of your points and slightly disagree with some as well. People are focused on minor Deeni issues- it's really a problem. But you can't just ignore something because of its lesser significance in Deen. We all know which senseless cult arose these issues first. At first 'Ulama didn't pay much attention to that fitnah, but today they're proudly announcing their dominance over all by the power of petrodollar sponsored by taaghoot Saud monarchs. It's incumbent upon 'Ulama-e-Haqq to preserve Deen in its original form. This is why they spend their time for solving minor fiqhi issues and this is indeed a monumental job.

If you read the trend of atheism, you'll find that in the past it was based on mainly logic and philosophy. Our Salaf dealt them aptly.

But the present scenery is completely different. Now atheists have adopted science as their main weapon. Our 'Ulama are totally laypeople regarding this latest "New Atheism". Now it's our turn. We, who are educated in different sectors of science have to take the responsibility. I'm not denying the need to compile old works on rational arguments. We need a perfect combination.

Sadly, I'm not seeing any brother/sister of this forum interested to contribute in this regard.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2014 21:28
Black Turban wrote:
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(salam)


Yes atheism is a fitnah amongst many other fitnahs that is on the rise again and a big one to be honest, also your correct that not much is being done about it, however that does not mean that nothing is being done about it at all. Maybe you're looking in the wrong places akhii

Some threads on other forums :

www.forums.islamicawakening.com/f15/addressing-rise-athei...

www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=15884

This website and it's author is a gem :

www.hamzatzortzis.com/


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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 03:28
Wa 'Alaykumus Salaam



Sorry to say these links weren't helpful that much. IA thread was merely a discussion- nothing academic. I found there only one interesting link of Madhkhali morons: Advice Regarding Hamza Tzortzis and Company (iERA): Part 1 - Introduction

Multaqa Ahlalhadeeth is a bunch of Salafis (moderate) who can only provide some hints. Yet they seem better than IA (but not adequate).

Brother, I mentioned brother HT in my opening post:

Black Turban wrote:
There are individuals like Hamza Tzortzis. But how can we rely on individuals? We need more- the bigger fitnah, the bigger resistance.


We need to engage more people. The knowledge which we are utilizing to earn some money, why don't we use it for defending Deen as well? We have luminaries like sir Maripat and dr76 (sorry, I don't know about expertise of others). They can aptly handle physics and biology respectively.

Christians are fighting atheists, pseudo-Salafis are fighting atheists, some converted Muslims are fighting atheists. And we- born Muslims, claiming ourselves as the followers of real Salaf? Do we have any organized effort?
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 09:53
Black Turban wrote:
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Threads were given to give you info that work is happening and maybe you're not looking in the proper places contrary to your claim that no work is being done at all.

Good man your thinking now,

Well for starters see what you can do 'yourself' and then take it from there. So do you what you can, May Allah bless you init.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 10:06
(salaam)

The Fitna of Atheism:

We know that Destruction is always easier than Construction and Islam constructs the human life in accordance with the divine values. Whereas anti humanity forces struggle to swerve the mentality of human being to shun the human values to materialize its carnal desires.

Atheism is entering into our homes and minds through TV, Mobile, Movies, Games, Books etc. And we arent able stop it.

So how to cope with this dangerous situation?

Unless we initiate this process from the grass root level success is out of reach.

Generally all of us are succumb to ambience, so first, it's to be changed.

How?

It's to be changed from''me'' then '' us''- including family, neighbourhood and all.

* First, We should become submissive Muslims. If we find it difficult to change ourselves then we must leave homes with TJ and it's proven that aura of masjid affects us- at least till we are there.
*At back home, we've to adhere to it to keep the spirit up.
*Start Talim session of a good book e.g. Maariful Hadis or Muntakhab Ahadis, preferably after Isha when all the family members are together.
* Keep an eye on fitna mongering tools or at least expurgate the harmful material.
* Openings of educational institutions.
*Islamization of study material.
* Tabligh among educated class and inspire them to use their qualifications and abilities to serve Islam.
* Use all possible sources of communications to reach the masses
* Door to door campaign to aware the people of the issue and make them realize their onus
* Supply the study material to Ulama Ikram or avail them accessibility of required data on internet in vernacular.
* Dawat to young generation to join the campaign
* Creation of paradigm that's conducive to Islam
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 10:19
There is a very good thread on Sunniforum on Apostasy and superb thoughts by Rahmaniya, please also review it.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 16:45
Atheist secularism is not such a great problem. As an atheist someone can only be an secularist if consequent. But the problem is when the religion is used to promote secularism and this is exactly what many sufis do. Nearly all arab sufis are wishing to live in a secular state. They have absolutely no aim that the islamic law is enforced in it's whole. Democracy and secularism is the political ideology shared by the arab sufi scholars and their disciples in the West.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2014 17:02
Anonymous wrote:
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Almost all Indian Muslims also want to live in a Secular state but it is their need due to demographics.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 24th December 2014 09:41
The Middle East's fear of atheism
In Egypt and other Arab states, societies are heavily influenced by religion. Even so, many people evidently regard themselves as atheists, and both governments and religious institutions see this as a threat.



There are exactly 866 atheists living along the Nile - at least according to a recent survey by the government-run Egyptian institution "Dar al-Ifta," which keeps tabs on religious issues in the country. How exactly that number was determined is unclear, but the institution's verdict on the threat is surprising: according to Dar al-Ifta, the fact that 0.001 percent of the Egyptian population does not believe in God is a reason to sound the alarm bells. After all, no country in the Arab world apparently has a higher number of "godless" people - Morocco being the runner-up with a purported 325 atheists.
The Dar al-Ifta figures contrast sharply with a poll conducted in 2014 by the Al-Azhar University in Cairo. Having canvassed 6,000 young people, the university - which has a formidable reputation in Sunni Islam - came up with an atheist proportion of some 12.3 percent of the Egyptian population. That would amount to 10.7 million of 87 million Egyptians.
Appearing on state TV in October, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar, Ahmad al-Tayyib, warned that atheism was no longer a side issue - the conscious dissociation from any religion was, he said, a social problem. According to the Gulf News daily, the Egyptian Ministries of Youth and Religious Endowment both pledged to launch campaigns designed to combat this attitude. Moderate religious scholars, psychologists, and social scientists were to be sent out to thwart the loss of faith among the young. "Young people are alienated by militant preachers who tell them 24 hours a day that they will go to hell," Al-Azhar professor Amnah Nusair told Gulf News.

Whether they are Muslim, Christian, or Jewish, hardly anyone in the Middle East publicly renounces religion. But the number seems to have increased in the wake of the Arab Spring in 2011, and most Arab countries have seen the emergence of atheist groups with their own Facebook pages. Their numbers appear to be very small: the "Tunisian Atheists" group has about 6,900 "likes," while the "Sudanese Atheists" have almost 3,300. The "Atheist Society in Egypt" recorded 585 at the time of writing, while the "Feminist Atheists in Saudi Arabia" have all of 61.

Saudis equate atheists with terrorists

The government in Saudi Arabia, which imposes a particularly strict interpretation of Islam, seems to feel especially threatened by this attitude. In spring 2014, Saudi Arabia declared that, from a legal point of view, atheism was as dangerous as religiously motivated terrorism. But in a global survey published in 2012, the Win/Gallup International research institute determined that 19 percent of Saudi Arabians rated themselves non-practising. A further five percent categorized themselves as atheists. By comparison, according to the same survey, no atheists were recorded in Iraq, where a mere nine percent had labeled themselves non-practising.

The strong reaction to people quietly turning their backs on religion comes as a surprise in the face of the real threat posed by radicalized islamists. In Islam, sowing seeds of discord is considered a grave sin, and someone who denies God's existence can easily come under suspicion of creating dissension among the faithful. Then again, politics plays a role as well. In Egypt, the government does not want to play into the hands of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, which was removed from power in 2013, by failing to take action in the face of atheists. In order not to provide the Muslim Brotherhood with a target, the political leaders in Cairo portray themselves as defenders of religion.

In most Arab countries, being an atheist is not outlawed outright, but the laws against religious defamation often leave enough leeway to take action against atheists, and such cases are recorded by human and civil rights groups again and again. In December 2014, security forces in Cairo raided a café purportedly visited by atheists, with the authorities declaring that satanic rites had been practiced there. On its Facebook page, the "Atheist Society in Egypt" commented: "Even the Muslim Brotherhood didn't go this far when it was still in power."

Source
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