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The ummah should not argue

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Abu Taalib Deobandi, Abu Ahmad, Ibn_Muhammed
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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 13:25
Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever does not argue when he is in the wrong will have a home built for him on the edge of Paradise. Whoever avoids it when he in the right will have a home built for him in the middle of Paradise. And whoever improves his own character, a home will be built for him in the highest part of Paradise." [Tirmidhi]

Arguing with people is strongly discouraged in Islam. We are to state our point of view and then leave it at that. Nor are we to involve ourselves in matters that do not affect a person's deen. Note that a person is to shun argument whether he is in the right or whether his stand is wrong. Both get houses built for them in Paradise. But since the person who knows that he is right finds it more difficult to leave the argument and let things be, he/she is promised a greater reward.

Arguing with people rarely gets anyone to change their minds. It usually only produces defensiveness and creates ill feelings between people. The issue becomes a matter of one's ego and makes it more difficult for a person to change their stance. Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) loves to have Muslims live harmoniously with each other. Try this hadith out in practice, and you will see that your relations improve with people and that you have greater peace of mind.

we should settle our disputes from the quran

I heard the Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) saying, "Read the Quran, for it will come as an intercessor for its reciters on the Day of Resurrection." [Sahih Muslim]

This hadith tells us one of the many benefits of reciting the Quran and acting upon it. The Day of Judgement will be extremely hot for sinners and 50,000 years long. The fear that will grip people will be so severe that it will produce in them a drunk like condition. People will be desperate for an intercessor, to save them from the Fire of Hell.

On that Day, none will intercede except whom Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) grants permission to, and Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) will allow the Quran to do so. The Quran will be endowed with the power of speech and it will request Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) to forgive the sins of its reciters who acted upon its teachings. Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) will accept the request of the Quran, as signified in other ahadith.

Another hadith states: "The Quran and the people who applied it, will be brought on the Day of Resurrection preceded with Surah Al-Baqarah and Surah Al-e-Imran arguing on behalf of those who applied them." [Sahih Muslim] Let's increase our chances of being saved from the Fire of Hell, by reciting the Quran and applying its teachings to our lives.

and have taqwa in settling our disputes

Narrated Umm Salama (radi Allahu anha), the wife of the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam): "Allah's Messenger heard some people quarrelling at the door of his dwelling. He came out and said, 'I am only a human being, and opponents come to me (to settle their problem); may be someone amongst you can present his case more eloquently than the other, whereby I may consider him true and give a verdict in his favour. So if I give the right of a Muslim to another by mistake, then it is only a portion of (Hell) Fire, he has the option to take it or give it up (before the Day of Resurrection).'" [The Book of Al-Mazalim: Sahih Bukhari]

This hadith reminds us of the importance of taqwa in settling disputes. The judgment of the judge is subject to the evidence brought before him and the eloquence of the disputing parties. The judge might, therefore, make a mistake in his judgment. However, each party knows what the truth is. Just because a judge ruled in one party's favour does not give that party the right to take what the judge gave him. If he takes something he knows is not his or he does not deserve, he will be punished for it. The form of punishment will be that he will appear on the Day of Judgement weighed down from carrying the unjustly acquired thing (land, property, animals) on his neck.

Another hadith says that even if a single handspan of land is acquired unjustly then the usurper will have his neck encircled with the weight of seven earths on the Day of Resurrection. [The Book of Al-Mazalim: Sahih Bukhari] Therefore, the judge should remind the parties to have taqwa and remind them about the accountability they will face before Allah (subhana wa ta'ala).

These days the excellence of a lawyer is judged by his/her glibness and their ability to win their client's case; while a lawyer's lobbying for injustice makes him/her a part of the injustice. Their arguing in favour of an oppressor or usurper will make them also carry the burden of the seven earths for their promotion of sin and injustice. All parties -- clients, lawyers, judges -- need to have taqwa of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) in settling disputes, rather than wait for Allah's judgement to descend on them.

and by arguments we may hurt someone and it is forbidden to hurt someone

Allah created the human being in the best of forms. He made him benefit from what is in the sky and Earth. He endowed upon him a mind, tongue, lips, eyes and ears so that one uses these organs in the accepted way to please Allah, i.e., to obey him and perform obedience to Him.



Allah, ta^ala, said in the Qur'an:

وصوركم فأحسن صوركم وإليه المصير ‏



Wa sawwarakum fa'ahsana suwarakum wa ilayhil-masir.

Ayah 3 of Suratut-Taghabun means:
Allah created you having a good shape. To Him is the return.




Allah gave the Muslim a merit over others, because he has fulfilled the greatest obligation, which is believing in Allah and stating that Allah is clear of having partners.

The Muslim has several rights. The Religion has urged us to respect the Muslim and not to demean him.

The Religion also made hurting a Muslim a sin for which one deserves to be punished. If one gossips about another without an excuse one commits a sin of the tongue. If one hits him unrightfully, then one commits a sin of the body, and so forth.



Some of the sins that one must avoid:

Among the sins of the heart: arrogance, enmity, and envy.

Among the sins of the eye: looking down on a Muslim.

Among the sins of the tongue: mocking a Muslim. Likewise, every word, action, or sign that causes harm to a Muslim is a sin. Also, laughing at him with the purpose of making fun of him in a way that hurts him is sinful.



The Prophet, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam, said:

بحسب امرئ من الشر أن يحقر أخاه

Bihasbi-mri'im minash-sharri ay yahqira akhah.

Which means: "Belittling one's fellow Muslim is an act of great evil." (Narrated by Muslim.)



Among the sins of the hand: Hitting a Muslim without a right. Likewise, scaring him, and pointing a weapon at him.



Among the sins of the foot: to walk towards committing a sin, such as walking to the ruler to inflict harm unjustly on a Muslim.



Among the sins of the body: to imitate the believer mockingly, even if this was by saying, action, or sign.



Allah, ta^ala, said:

يا أيها الذين آمنوا لا يسخر قوم من قوم

Ya ayyuhal-ladhina amanu la yaskhar qawmum min qawm.

Ayah 11 of Suratul-Hujurat means:
O believers, do not mock one another.


Mocking a Muslim can be by laughing at him if he makes a mistake while talking, or laughing at his actions or his appearance. The believer should love his Muslim brother and be kind to and help him.



The Prophet, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam, said:



مثل المؤمنين في توادهم وتراحمهم وتعاطفهم كمثل الجسد الواحد إذا اشتكى منه عضو تداعى له سائر الجسد بالحمى والسهر

Mathalul-mu'minina fi tawwaddihim wa tarahumihim wa ta^atufihim mathalul-jasadil-wahid(i), idhashtaka minhu ^udwun tada^a lahu sa'irul-jasadi bis-sahari wal-humma.



Which means: "The Muslims with their mutual love, mercy and care are like the body: when one of its parts is ill, all of the other parts join to share the sleeplessness and fever." (Narrated by al-Bukhariyy and Muslim.)
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 13:39
Quote:
Arguing with people rarely gets anyone to change their minds. It usually only produces defensiveness and creates ill feelings between people.


Spot on you are. I've read so many topics although I must admit there's too many to go through since I've been here.

But from the hundreds I must've read, i've only come across 2 or 3 threads in which there's been arguments.

I've taken part in other forums and to be honest, they have arguments in every second thread. Almost all. So it's quite good here.

I also take part in youtube comments which is all arguments, swearing and fighting. Even videos about peace have arguments lol.

Over all, good post.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 13:46
I once argued with someone knowing they were right. I continued and changed the argument very lightly and slowly eventually ended up arguing about his argument.

He didn't even realise that at that point I was agreeing with him but arguing deliberately.

He was so confused. That was fun but the point is, even at the point of me agreeing, he was still looking to deny anything at all for the sake of argument.

We're like the Banu Israeel now in so many ways. A teacher always repeated that in local Madrasah
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 13:47
Rasūl Allāh صلى الله عليه وسلم mentioned the following ḥadīth,

"One of the most detested people in the Sight of Allah is he who is obstinate and argumentative." [Bukhārī]

The teaching of Islam is that than rather being critical of others, a person should be critical of himself. Before thinking of criticizing others, a person should ask himself whether he is in a moral or scholarly position to do so and whether it is genuine, sincere and constructive criticism.


http://www.muftisays.com/forums/du-aas-supplications/6204/debating%2C-criticizing-and-obstinacy.html
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 18th October 2011 18:51
Spot on thread bro
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 19th October 2011 11:27

"Ibn_Muhammed" wrote:
Spot on thread bro

Asslamo Allaikum,

Let me give a reality check on "arguing"

In our Masjid last Ramadhan a Salafi brother said that “Hanafees” don’t like people who act in a way other then them so I asked him to clarify and he said because he puts his hands on the chest people think of him differently and target him.

I said, “Muslim Ummah” has lived with differences for 1400+ years UNTIL the Salafees came along and tried to DICTATE & ENFORCE their Fiqh on the Muslim Ummah and for years went from Masjid to Masjid (in the West) and question people on where to put the hands in Salah and saying Ameen loudly and just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Mufti Mangera (HA) had no choice BUT to write a book on Salah (Fiqhul-Imam)

Shaykh Abu Yusuf Riyadhul-Haq (HA) had no choice but to write a book on Salah (Salah of the believer).

Both of these books are NOT written in a traditional teaching Hanafi Fiqh style BUT to “REFUTE” the arguments and its a sad, very sad matter because the laymen HAD to be trained to answer the accusations which have been hurled at them from the SALAFEES.

I have lived through the worst of SALAFIYYAH on the East-Coast of USA so I know!

I have heard the comments, “Do you follow Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) or Abu Haneefa?”  and said it to others!

“NOW” because the tables are turned on forums and local Masajid the principle “we should avoid the arguments” is being propagated?

It’s a sad reflection of our state that the talents of best of our Scholars and laymen (from both sides) have been wasted on REFUTATION rather then positive Dawah which will bring the Ummah together.

Lastly, I told the Salafi brother that there is a “Revert Shaf’ae brother” who prays in the first Saff:

  • with his hands quite high,
  • does Rafal-Yadain,
  • performs Tahaiyyatul Masjid bang in front of the Imam giving Khutbah
  • Says Ameen loudly

And how come no Hanafi in the Masjid (young, old) doesn't have any  problems with him? So your claim that Hanafees hate someone who is different falls flat on its face.
 

Years ago, I remember one day in Ramadhan a bunch of Salafees standing outsides Masjid Quba in London and advising people to AVOID Riyadus-Saliheen (not Fazail-e-Aamaal) in Taleeem and being pretty militant about it. I know where they got this argument from and where they were going. Majority of Muslim Ummah for 700+ years has relied upon Riyadus-Saliheen and accepted Imam Nawawi (RA) has one of the foremost Hadeeth Scholars of the Muslim Ummah and nobody felt the need to create a “Saheeh version of Riyadus-Saliheen”

If differences if Fiqh are acceptable (as Salafees claim) then its time to put their money where their mouth is AND MOVE ON!

Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) is from the Salaf and there is nothing wrong with relying upon his opinion and that has been ACCEPTED in this Ummah for 1250+ years! Allah (SWT) has not made laymen (who barely know Arabic) “constables of Fiqh” to question and judge other laymen as to whether they know the daleel of their actions and whether their actions are strong or weak.

If Salafees wouldn’t have CREATED A WORLD-WIDE MESS there would be no reason for arguments and no reason for certain sections on this forum and many others.

In the West in my lifetime I have clearly seen how has created the argument, fuelled it and consumed the best of our resources. 

I pray to Allah (SWT) for the day that we can move away from arguments and follow a position in Fiqh which is backed by Qur’aan & Sunnah. I have NEVER SEEN Hanafees arguing with Shaf’ees or Malikees in Masajid and vice-versa and questioning their actions its always Salafees with “Where is your daleel, Akhi”?

I recently told a brother in Masjid, “WHO has given you the right to be asking other laymen for Daleel?” NOWHERE in the Qur’aan & Sunnah you are instructed to go around asking other people for Daleels!

Jazakullah Khairun

 

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 19th October 2011 11:48

Here you go:

http://www.muftisays.com/forums/the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/6219/where-is-allaah-.html

Who is starting the argument? And accusing, insinuating and judging between two Scholars?

Point question!

Do you think that Mufti Mangera (HA) is STUPID???
 

How many here think that a Salafi can google in English and correctly judge a verse of the Qur’aan or Hadeeth but Mufti Mangera (HA) after years of learning Arabic and reading is UNABLE to grasp it?

Ever considered the possibility that...

Perhaps he has a daleel for what he says and believes in?

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 19th October 2011 13:56
Spot on Muadh.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 19th October 2011 22:49
Muadh_Khan wrote:
Here you go: www.muftisays.com/forums/the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/6219/... Who is starting the argument? And accusing, insinuating and judging between two Scholars? Point question! Do you think that Mufti Mangera (HA) is STUPID???   How many here think that a Salafi can google in English and correctly judge a verse of the Qur’aan or Hadeeth but Mufti Mangera (HA) after years of learning Arabic and reading is UNABLE to grasp it? Ever considered the possibility that... Perhaps he has a daleel for what he says and believes in?



do you think that all the scholars of the past that deviated were all stupid? 'Aqeedah is not taken from the khalaf, it's taken from the salaf!
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 19th October 2011 22:53
Muadh_Khan wrote:


Perhaps he has a daleel for what he says and believes in?




everyone claims to have a daleel, it's not considered a daleel unless it's understood the same way it was understood by the salaf. Even the filthy Raafidah claim to have adillah!

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 19th October 2011 23:03
Muadh_Khan wrote:
"Ibn_Muhammed" wrote:
Spot on thread bro
Asslamo Allaikum, Let me give a reality check on "arguing" In our Masjid last Ramadhan a Salafi brother said...



MasahAllaah akhi you have many stories about these salafi brothers, let me tell you something a hanafi did...

There's a hanafi guy and every time he goes past a grave of a pious man, he makes sajdah to the grave and therefore commits major kufr!

Does this mean all hanafis do sujood to the graves of pious people?

Please refrain from posting your childish stories.

Barakallaahu Feek.


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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 19th October 2011 23:10
Salam, in reply to the above...

In that comparison, you must ask yourself, how many Hanafi brothers have you met in total. And from them how many do Sajdah to graves (very shocking to hear that by the way)?

Then in terms of what Muadh has said, Wallahi from all the Salafis I have met and they are quite few (as in little amount), every single one of them argues without blinking and raise the exact same issues like they have a script to go by.

No I do not say that ALL salafis are like that as it's beyond me to know that but from what I've seen till today over the past 6 years or so, it seems like they all do argue. So the two cases you compare are in my opinion invalid.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 19th October 2011 23:25
Yasin wrote:
Salam, in reply to the above...

In that comparison, you must ask yourself, how many Hanafi brothers have you met in total. And from them how many do Sajdah to graves (very shocking to hear that by the way)?

Then in terms of what Muadh has said, Wallahi from all the Salafis I have met and they are quite few (as in little amount), every single one of them argues without blinking and raise the exact same issues like they have a script to go by.

No I do not say that ALL salafis are like that as it's beyond me to know that but from what I've seen till today over the past 6 years or so, it seems like they all do argue. So the two cases you compare are in my opinion invalid.



Wa'alaikumsalaam Warahmatullaah,

Jazakallaahu khairan for your reply.

I'm not attacking anyone akhi, the point I was trying to raise is that we don't base the opinions and actions of individuals/laymen to express our views on an entire group.

I've spoken to many brothers that have studied for years, their views are completely different to that which has been spread across this forum.

As for the hanafees I was referring to, then many groups fall under the large umbrella of the hanafiyyah, this includes the sufis, brelvis, qaadiyanins... just because they all claim to be hanafees, it doesn't mean all the hanfees are like them.

barakallaahu feek


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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 20th October 2011 17:09

"Abu Ahmad" wrote:
"Muadh_Khan" wrote:
"Ibn_Muhammed" wrote:
Spot on thread bro
Asslamo Allaikum, Let me give a reality check on "arguing" In our Masjid last Ramadhan a Salafi brother said...
MasahAllaah akhi you have many stories about these salafi brothers, let me tell you something a hanafi did... There's a hanafi guy and every time he goes past a grave of a pious man, he makes sajdah to the grave and therefore commits major kufr! Does this mean all hanafis do sujood to the graves of pious people? Please refrain from posting your childish stories. Barakallaahu Feek.

Asslamo Allaikum,

Please refrain from posting ridiculous irrelevancies!

Worshipping graves or Major Kuf’r has nothing to do with the Madhab of Imam Abu Hanfeea (RA) and your ridiculous example tells you what is actually in your heart and how you perceive and judge the Hanafi Madhab.

Speaks volumes about your Bias, contempt and hatred.

However, the arguments INFLICTED upon Muslims (in the West) by the Salafees is an everyday occurrence and every Salafi “man/woman/child” believes that he/she knows a lot more then Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) and all the Ulamah who have come down the line (for the last 1250+ years) PUT TOGETHER!

You are a fine example of that Bias!

The fact which has conveniently escaped your Bias and hatred that Imam Tahawi (RA) who was an Imam of Aqeedah was not only a Hanafi but also extensively wrote on the Madhab, its rulings and evidence!


 

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