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#61 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2013 18:57
This is for the guest on whose nerves people like me are getting on. I apologize if I seem to have come across harsh or rude.

SubhanAllah.

Ponder over this Hadith. This Hadith is one of those about which great imams say would be sufficient to cover half of your faith.

The Prophet (pbuh) has given a guideline concerning Syubhah matters. It is reported by Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Daud, Ibn Majah and Darimi, as follow:

الْحَلاَلُ بَيِّنٌ، وَالْحَرَامُ بَيِّنٌ، وَبَيْنَهُمَا مُشْتَبِهَاتٌ، لاَ يَعْلَمُهَا كَثِيرٌ مِنَ النَّاسِ. فَمَنِ اتَّقَى الشُّبُهَاتِ اسْتَبْرَأَ لِدِينِهِ وَعِرْضِهِ. وَمَنْ وَقَعَ فِي الشُّبُهَاتِ وَقَعَ فِي الْحَرَامِ...

Which means: What is Halal is clear. And what is Haram is also clear. And in between those two is a dubious area in which many people do not know about. So whoever distanced himself from it, he has acquitted himself (from blame). And those who fall into it, he has fallen into a state of Haram.


If you say smoking is not haram, you can not deny that it is in the dubious area. Those who have fallen into it are in a state of HARAM. And these are not my words but the words of the Prophet (saw).
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#62 [Permalink] Posted on 16th February 2013 16:22
Actually, I think smokers get on your nerves which is why you make it personal and label Haram that which clearly has differences of opinion amongst even the greatest scholars yet you seem to above them by saying "it's Haram and that's that"

The Hadith mentioned above does not make all the middle things Haram. You take Hadith literally? I wonder which direction that is heading.
وَمَنْ وَقَعَ فِي الشُّبُهَاتِ وَقَعَ فِي الْحَرَامِ means "eventually" - Can lead to Haram. The difference of opinion amongst scholars in this matter although opposite is in fact very similar. Some are of the opinion that it is considered Halal but leaving it is from piety as it could lead to Haram. An example is the order to lower the gazes in the Qur'an. So is looking up Haram? No one is ever to look up as it's against the Qur'an? The Qur'an doesn't say in words to avoid looking at women or evil things or any otther reason (not in that sentence anyway).

Then some are of the opinion that all middle things are Haram and avoiding it is piety. Haram because it can lead to Haram. Both sides have authentic reasons for their views. Now when scholars differ, why are you so highly qualified to stamp it Haram and call anyone else (including scholars) who says otherwise wrong???

I'm not debating the rulings, harms or anything else. Don't give Hadith to mislead people when you are not a scholar without the explanation of the Hadith from a scholar. Not your own understanding please. I had to find out about the Hadith you posted and I didn't reply till I got the information properly. Like I said, I study whatever comes my way in this regard and once again, you still have not proved it's Haram as a general rule.

According to you, if a person does not inhale then is it still Haram?
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#63 [Permalink] Posted on 16th February 2013 17:21
The ulama have said dealing in tobacco is forbidden, allahu alum.

My opinion is not what matters. Its between us and Allah.

If its not haram, good for those who do it, if it is haram, may Allah give us all the ability to stay away from it.

If it is makruh and you accept that, then please understand that it means it is disliked by Allah.

Personally, I wouldn't want to displease Allah.

I have made my position clear, and the important thing to remember is that I have no authority to pass any ruling.

Jazakallahu khair.
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#64 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd February 2013 13:23

Question:

Is smoking shisha permissible?

Answer:

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu 'alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh.

Research by the British Heart Foundation shows that during a typical hour-long shisha session, one can inhale the same amount of smoke equivalent to more than 100 tobacco cigarettes.

Though shisha smoking has become modernised via the use of flavoured fruits and juice, there's still one component found in the water pipe - tobacco.

The tobacco contains 2 times the levels of carbon monoxide and 3 times the level of nicotine when compared to cigarettes.

The charcoal that is used to light up the tobacco contains toxins.

Shisha contains high levels of carbon monoxide and nicotine and this has a high potential to result in brain malfunction or unconsciousness.

Shisha contains chemicals such as cadmium, cobalt and arsenic. If there's one disease linked with cadmium then that's cancer. The cancer common from smoking is cancer of the lungs, mouth or gums.

Women who smoke shisha have a high chance of delivering premature babies (with breathing difficulties)

The aluminium foil used when burning the charcoal produces carcinogenic fumes. This again leads to cancer.

Smoking increases blood pressure levels and of course the risk of a heart attack.

Smoking a shisha pipe in a non-ventilated room could result in light headaches for anyone in the room, whether smoking or not.

Hours are wasted sitting in cafes and smoking shisha. Such sessions are further polluted with gossip, heedlessness, intermingling and many other evils. A shisha session is a bombardment and shelling upon the body and soul.

Anything which has that such collateral damage on the body and soul will be severely disliked and prohibited. Thus, to smoke shisha is Makruh Tahrīmī (severely disliked).

And Allah Ta'ālā Knows Best

Mufti Faraz al-Mahmudi,

Darul Iftaa

Dublin, Ireland
www.darulfiqh.com

www.bhf.org.uk/default.aspx?page=14417 (last accessed 15/02/12)

www.shishalovers.com/2012/06/shisha-smoking-potential-har...(last accessed 15/02/12)

اعلم أن المضرات للبدن من المأكولات، والمشروبات ثلاثةُ أقسام:

قسم ضرره ظاهر مُهْلك - كالسُّم، والزجاج، والحديد، والزيبق، والجص، وما أشبه ذلك - فيحرم أكله جامداً، وشربُه مائعاً.

وقسم ضرره ظاهر، ولكنه غير مُهْلك - كالتراب، والحجر، ونحوهما - فيكره أكلها جامدة، وشربها مائعة، إلا قليلَ تراب في ماء.

وقسم ضرره غير ظاهر وهو: ما يضر الأمزجة المستعدة لضرره، دون غيرهما (كالمبرودين يضرهم أكل السمك، وشربُ اللبن، والمحرورين يضرهم شربُ العسل، والزيت، وأكلُ الفلفل ونحو ذلك) فلا يحرم ولا يكره، غير أن من عَرف تغيرَ مزاجه به، ينبغي أن يتركه، لئلا يؤدي إلى المرض الشديد (الدرر المباحة ص 44 دار ابن حزم).
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#65 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd February 2013 22:34
salaam

so in the same way, chewing tobacco as used by many of our hazrats is also haram?
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#66 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd February 2013 23:34
This thread will just go round in circles. Please read every post especially the first page with Seifeddine's 2 posts and Muadh's post. The verdicts are pretty clear. If certain ulama do an act it doesn't make it halal or permissible. Each one of us will answer for our own deeds not that of others. Let us look at our position and our deeds and judge ourselves.
2ak wrote:
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#67 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd February 2013 00:43
"so in the same way, chewing tobacco as used by many of our hazrats is also haram?"

That's what I've been trying to point out. Just because "some" scholars say it is Haram doesn't make it Haram because other scholars say it's Makrooh. Some say it's Makrooh Tahrimi like the post above. Why are you so adamant on only one ruling and expect the entire world to give into that?

Are the other scholars wrong? Is Mufti Faraz al-Mahmudi of Darul Iftaa, Dublin, Ireland (above Fatwa) also wrong?

I am not judging you at all abu mohammed, in fact, I follow a lot of your work here and on the pdf site but are you more qualified than those who rule it other than Haram?

To be honest, the only person taking this topic in circles is you because everyone trying to make a point about anything else is rejected with uncertain and unconfirmed scientific theories and assumptions. Some of it are facts yes but how are you taking theories and medical advice over rulings of other scholars?

Do you not accept that there is clear Haram, and clear Halal and then the bits in between which have differences of opinion, differences in accurate general rulings that applies to every person? This is one case where there will always be a difference of opinion so I say as do so many scholars (just ask a few practising scholars yourself) that in this situation, follow the ruling that your heart feels more content with.

So if you say Haram then Alhamdulillah, you are probably more higher in Taqwa and I will never say you are wrong. But I will never deny the rulings of the scholars that makes more sense to me and where my heart feels more content with.

There is nothing good about Sheesha or Smoking. Makrooh acts are huge and with consequences but labelling it Haram sourcing it to the Qur'aan where it's not Haram (but somehow verses about other topics are used to make it Haram) in my eyes is worse.
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#68 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd February 2013 12:42
abu mohammed wrote:
This thread will just go round in circles. Please read every post especially the first page with Seifeddine's 2 posts and Muadh's post. The verdicts are pretty clear. If certain ulama do an act it doesn't make it halal or permissible. Each one of us will answer for our own deeds not that of others. Let us look at our position and our deeds and judge ourselves.



but the point is - why do people make such a big fuss about what some jahil kids do (i am not saying it is right or should be ignored), but completely ignore what hazrats and buzroogs (who should know better and be a shining example) do?

sheesha amongst the youth is a recent thing, but the hazrats and buzroogs have been chewing tobacco for decades, maybe even centuries for all i know. nobody had a problem with them, but now all of a sudden sheesha is haram and makruh. someone should tell the hazrats and shaikhs that the ruling for chewing tobacco is the same!

and when was the last time you saw a youth smoking sheesha in the masjid while sat on the mimbar? i can tell you i have seen our hazrats and buzroogs chewing and spitting tobacco while sat on the mimbar in front of a huge group of people while delivering bayans about Allah and His Rasool (saw).

maybe the reason our youth are this way is because it has rubbed off from the hazrats and buzroogs!
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#69 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd February 2013 13:02
Jazakallah guest, I admire your passion (for the site).

Off topic, but just want to give an example (apologies)

There have been many times when certain ulama have been wrong in their fatwa/judgement. And they stick to it profusely even when the whole world is against it. 3 examples: HFA, Moon sighting and 18 degrees.

I have asked certain questions to Muftis and Alhumdulillah they had answered it to the best of their knowledge, Alhumdulillah. However, after time had passed and I had come across further evidence and provided it to the Mufti, the Mufti instantly changed his opinion and went for the stronger position. This has happened a few times.

The problem, in my opinion, is that today we still take from the classical books for the contemporary issues. Many ulama use these classical books and give their rulings according to that.

The ulama may not be using fiqhul waqi. To pass a ruling on something, it must no longer be based on fatwa books from the 1800s. Since we now have substantial evidence about certain topics, these ulama need to use the current findings and base it on that. It seems that those who have classified smoking, tobacco chewing, shisha etc as haram have based their findings on current affairs. Those ulama who have only classified it as makruh, have based their theory on old methods and findings. (chewing tobacco is a form of intoxication)

Allahu alum.
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#70 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd February 2013 14:36
Once again, you are wrong to say scholars are wrong when you don't even know that they base it on the same things you say. The scholars who say Haram have not understood scientific facts. Nor do they understand the fact the smoking does NOT kill. You just accuse the scholars who rule it differently that they're living in the 19th century still, they don't know scientific advancements. I am telling you that they are more aware of this than those who claim it Haram.

Your self-righteousness is ruling it Haram as are those scholars who just blunt it HARAM without evidence, without understanding, without knowledge of tobacco, without knowledge of the lack of scientific facts. And you're in the same self-righteous boat.

Research clearly shows the number 1 health risk in America, Australia and maybe (eventually) in UK too is obesity. Obesity kills more than smoking. This is scientific discoveries, government polls, the same things you use to make smoking Haram, I am now proving to you the eating is Haram because it leads to Obesity and Obesity kills MORE than smoking according to statistics.

I use those same Qur'an verses that do not let your hands lead to your own destruction. Eating is Haram. You think i'm being really stupid and silly? Now you know how I feel when I read your posts on this issue.
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#71 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd February 2013 17:45
Jazakallahu khairun.

May Allah سبحانه وتعالى give me a better understanding, Aameen.
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#72 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd February 2013 23:38
guest-81866 wrote:
The scholars who say Haram have not understood scientific facts. Nor do they understand the fact the smoking does NOT kill.




  In future, we will all ignore this notice because smoking doesn't kill, they don't know what they are talking about. Isn't that right guest 81866, or have I misunderstood you?



Scholars derive from the (Taqdeer - Fate thread) that destiny is of two types:

a) Muallaq (revocable):

This destiny is written on 'The Preserved Tablet' (al Lawh al Mahfoodh), and is subject to change and alteration through the omission or commission of certain deeds. For example: the lifespan of a person is originally 50 years, but may increase to 60 years if he performs the ritual of Hajj, or a certain calamity is to befall him unless he averts it by spending in charity. This is the destiny refereed to in the aforementioned narration.

b) Mubram (irrevocable):

This destiny denotes the eternal knowledge of Allah. It encompasses the final result of the Muallaq destiny i.e. our choice of actions, their consequences and every precise detail of our lives. This definite knowledge of Allah is not subject to change or alter even slightly and is exclusive to Allah only.

In the light of the above the following may be derived:

Our supplications do change destiny and are of much avail.
Good deeds are a source of increase in ones sustenance, and avert calamities.
Sins result in a decrease in ones sustenance, and invite calamities.


So, as I mentioned in my previous post, riding a motor bike won't kill you, but it can be the cause of ones death. Similarly, smoking won't kill you like a bullet, but eventually the effects of smoking will be the cause of death. So smoking does kill, it just depends on how you view taqdeer.
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#73 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2013 13:38
In future, we will all ignore this notice because smoking doesn't kill, they don't know what they are talking about. Isn't that right guest 81866, or have I misunderstood you?

You have misunderstood, even been fooled maybe. I will explain..

Here's the problem. You read a label and believe it to be 100% guaranteed. As if it says "Smoking Kills" and if a person smokes he will just drop dead.

Let me try to explain the purpose of this. In the west where you live they manipulate on politics and taxes. The government does not care about health and I can prove this.

All these health scares etc are created to increase tobacco tax. Tobacco tax won't just rise without first showing that "we did warn you" by these labels and banning cigarette adverts.

In 1990, the tax revenue was 1.1 billion when they allowed smoking indoors, at clubs and prices weren't too high. Except for 2009, the money generated from tobacco tax increased every year since by around 1 million. This means all their claims of less smokers and higher taxes are bogus otherwise the generated revenue would be steady or decrease, not increase by 1 million every year. In the 2012, the revenue was 2.6 billion pounds. (HM Revenue & Customs)

They claim that all the campaigns and banning of adverts etc has seen a rise in ex-smokers. First of all, these figures are not proven. They are assumptions based on clinics and charities. If it were true, either the tobacco tax revenue would drop or remain steady.


Secondly, if they actually cared about health, they would start with alcohol, drugs and betting. On TV, every second advert is either about alcohol (beer, wines and all sorts) or betting. They have not made any law to label alcohol with:

ALCOHOL KILLS YOU
ALCOHOL KILLS OTHERS
ALCOHOLS BREAKS FAMILES
ALCOHOL CRASHES YOUR CAR
ALCOHOL MAKES YOU RAPE
ALCOHOL CAUSES ASSAULT
and so much more

Gambling causes similar damage. Compare this with smoking. Yet the government goes wild about smoking because the rate of smokers of drinkers is huge. The amount is much higher and the person to sale ratio is much higher than drinking so it makes sense for them to cash in on that. Yet there's no madness about gambling or alcohol from the government. It's a legal requirement that's why the cigarette companies put that label. Not because they believe it or want to "help" smokers. If they wanted to help or if they cared, they make medicine instead of cigarettes.

If you read a label on a cigarette packet and think they actually care then you're too naive.

SMOKING DAMAGES HEALTH - maybe
SMOKING GIVES BAD SMELL - yes
SMOKING DISTURBS OTHERS - yes
SMOKING KILLS - no it doesn't

A knife in the heart kills
A bullet in the head kills
A cigarette does NOT kill

I am shocked that you use Taqdeer to explain your theories that smoking kills

You wrote "Similarly, smoking won't kill you like a bullet, but eventually the effects of smoking will be the cause of death. So smoking does kill, it just depends on how you view taqdeer."
I can say: Similarly, overeating won't kill you like a bullet, but eventually the effects of overeating will be the cause of death. So overeating does kill, it just depends on how you view taqdeer.


A woman from Croydon started smoking at the age of 7 and died at 103 after quitting for a year because she couldn't see the end of the matchstick. So she quit smoking and died a year later. To me that's proof that not smoking is killing yourself so not smoking is HARAM. She didn't inhale but she still breathed all the smoke. There are hundreds of recorded examples of heavy smokers living past 100. Not 60, 70 or even 80 but one hundred years old.

I think I've clearly understood taqdeer. The time is fixed, so many things damage health which is all Makrooh for many reasons including the decline of worship due to bad health but I guarantee you obesity causes more missing Salah than smoking does. So don't judge smokers, judge your trigger fingers firing HARAM without full knowledge on the subject when it's clearly not Haram and all your statements and proof have been answered as far as I am aware.
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#74 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2013 13:48
I thought this topic ran out of smoke last week
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#75 [Permalink] Posted on 25th February 2013 14:00
@Guest-81866

Is that all you came up with to disprove smoking doesn't kill.

I have family members who have died due to smoking. I saw how it affected the family and it separated them from others. I've seen the illness' it has given them, I've seen them die because of it. I've seen the side effects on the off spring etc.

You can justify your smoking as much as you want, at the end of the day you are still doing wrong and it will all just go up in smoke. Whats the point.

You are looking for every means possible to please your cravings and addiction of this killer. All the best, I'm sure AbuM will be laughing at your politically correct approach.
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