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Pakistan vs India: Background, Conflict, Analysis

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#286 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 09:52
MFaiz wrote:
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Pakistan has between 300,000 to 400,000 Rhongya refugees that have sought refuge in pakistan over several decades going back to the 1960's.

Maybe you should try using google or the search facilty on youtube.


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#287 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 11:43
MFaiz wrote:
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There is a thing called Distance.

Rohgniya Muslims who are running away from the violence are very poor, and they don’t have luxury boats, the only option to reach Pakistan. They have boats in very poor condition that simply cannot carry an overflowing migrants to Pakistan. 99% chances are they will drown.

Now, let me tell you one simple and straight fact. If Pakistan was situated where Bangladesh is situated, and if the government of Pakistan refused to allow them entry, it will be all out revolt in the country and the political party would have lose their government.
(Quora)

Rohingya people in Pakistan (Urdu: پاکستانی برمی‎) are a community based in Karachi, Sindh, Pakistan. They are Rohingya Muslims (Urdu: روہنگیا مسلمان‎) from Rakhine State, Myanmar (also known as Arakan, Burma), who have fled their homeland because of the persecution of Muslims by the Burmese government and Buddhist majority.According to varied Pakistani government sources and the Arakan Historical Society, there are some 200,000 Rohingya refugees residing in PakistanAll of them have made a perilous journey across Bangladesh and India and have settled in Karachi. The Rohingya Muslim in Karachi have now obtained Pakistani citizenship. A report on human trafficking stated that Burmese people make up fourteen percent of Karachi's undocumented immigrants.Large scale Rohingya migration to Karachi made Karachi one of the largest population centres of Rohingyas in the world after Myanmar.In the recent years, scores of Burmese women seeking employment have entered the country. Different resources cite the number of these women to be in the thousands.(Wiki)




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#288 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 11:43
I think it's time to present a question to Darul Uloom Deoband asking about the Iman of people who holds such nationalistic beliefs.

The question should be neutral, no mention of country. Just the facts. Muslim's dislike of other Muslim's. Muslim's not caring for the atrocities carried out on other Muslim's. Muslim's support for a mushrik and his intentions.

What is to be said about a Muslim who knowingly enters into a job where he must abandon the beard. Muslim's who are willing to enter into a job where he gets orders to kill their Muslim brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers. The only true reason for entering into this job is the benefits and pension.

What kind of a Muslim is that and what is to be considered about those who support this.

Then let's wait for a fatwa.

Answer should be along the lines of "We urinate on such Iman"

Are they really on Haq as claimed, or are they just now Deobandi in name.
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#289 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 11:54

Asaaghir wrote:
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Darul-uloom Deoband holds these beliefs so there is no Fatwa to come. They usually equally condemn Indian attorcities and Kashmiri uprising in the same sentence without differenrentiating.

www.jamiatulama.in/single-post/2019/02/15/Jamiat-condemns...

Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind’s General Secretary Maulana Mahmood Madani has strongly condemned attack on Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) convoy in Kashmir's Pulwama district. He said that this was horribly terror attack that contradicts Holy the very spirit of Islam and jihad. “We all Indian citizens stand shoulder to shoulder with the bereaved families of the killed soldiers and we are united in condemnation of terrorists who carried out this horrendous act.

www.jamiatulama.in/single-post/2018/12/16/Jamiat-condemns...

New Delhi 16-12-2018:Maulana Mahmood Madani, General Secretary of Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind has expressed his deep concern over and condemned killing of six civilians including a child by security forces in Pulwama district, Kashmir. He said that suck brutal killing is unacceptable in any parts of the world. He further said that history testifies to the fact that peace and order in any troubled region cannot be restored by killing its own people. He also said that the central government should derive a lesson from its flawed policies about Kashmir and initiate process for confidence building among Kashmiri people.

Maulana Madani has also demanded the central government take punitive action against guilty personals and provide adequate financial compensation to the family members of those killed.  Beside that a sense of responsibility can be created among security forces so that they may have a feeling that they are not above the law.

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#290 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 12:07
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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These are Ulama e soo who have bartered away their Deen and their Iman in exchange for this worthless dunya! What a shame!

EDIT: I take this advice and retract the above statement.
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#291 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 12:21
bint e aisha wrote:
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MashaAllah :)
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#292 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 12:33
Rasulullah (saw) is reported to have said:

“Soon shall there dawn a time over the people when nothing of Islam will remain except its name, and nothing of the Qu’raan will remain except its text. The Musaajid will be ornate structures devoid of guidance. The worst of the people under the canopy of the sky will be their ulama. From them (the ulama) will emerge fitnah (corruption), and the fitnah will rebound on them.

Allah ta'ala please send your curses on Ulama e soo who are misguiding people away from your Deen.
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#293 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 12:34
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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That is not the question.

Question should be neutral, no country to be mentioned.

I would love to see the answer, then I'll personally apply for a visa, go to India and gift my urine to the Indians as a gesture of peeesss :p

I hate politically correct response. Such nanny state people make me sick. There's a time and place where I understand it's needed, but not always. Haq is Haq, Haq can't be diluted
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#294 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 12:35

bint e aisha wrote:
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bint e aisha wrote:
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You are an extremist and no better then ArafatZafar.

Jzk

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#295 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 12:46
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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"I do not fear the blame of a critic."

They are changing the commands of Allah and they've come up with 'the Indian version of Islam' and you're expecting me to praise them?
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#296 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 12:50
Arfatzafar wrote:
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When Muadh_Khan had opened this thread, I had thought of advising him to change the title, but at that point it was had been opened for a completely different purpose and the title suited that purpose. We were debating on the Muslims vs Mushrikeen thing on a different thread. It's just a coincidence that the argument has moved on to this thread but you should focus on the content of the thread rather than the title.
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#297 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 13:10
Asaaghir wrote:
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I am sure that if you try to understand these politically correct response and try to analyze them point by point there will be people, even here on this forum, that will try to dig up some deep philosophical meaning out of these responses and actions of such cowards. Like has been happening with the explanation of why the prisoner was released so quickly by the Pak govt. and the army generals. They'll say there are some things these people don't discuss with the ordinary people, you have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, blah, blah. This same reasoning will be applied to explain away the "fatwas" of such coward ulema who are going against a very simple and easy to understand hadith about nationalism.

Truth is, there is no deep philosophical explanation. There is a very simple one. These people didn't pay heed to deen's advice of living like a traveler in this world, they busied themselves in gathering for themselves loads of dunya, which they were anticipating they would have a long time to enjoy, so now that the time of the arrival of the train on the platform comes nearer and nearer, they are unable to leave the waiting room. They are unable to make decisions that could potentially lead to them leaving all that they have worked hard to gather, behind in this world. They are trying to delay the inevitable, without realizing that this is one inevitable that cannot be delayed no matter what happens.

IMO, even those who are talking about peace are foolishly misguided.
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#298 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 13:14

bint e aisha wrote:
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No and I do not care whether you worry about my criticism or not; it does not change the facts.

You are looking at issues through the prism of Pakistan and you do have some Islamic evidence for your position (in this particular case).

  • Indian Ulama are trapped inside a majority Hindu country (rightly or wrongly) and are under danger of loosing honour, property and life.  Under the circumstances, it would be an enormous reward if they stuck to the truth HOWEVER there is some (Islamic) support for their behaviour in order to save the lives of millions of Muslims. They can withdraw from the public discourse but this will leave a vacuum which can be exploited, they do not have a choice but to calibrate their responses. The fact that you are overlooking this ground reality is an error on your part. You are doing what British Muslims do to the Americans every day with a smug superior attitude. The fact is that your Government, your Army and your Ulama are NO MODEL for anyone to follow! Indian Ulama have to be praised for trying (and succeeding) to a large extent in preserving Islam of their population under the most adverse conditions. There is more (outward and inward) Islam in India then there is in Pakistan and it is clearly visible.
  • ArafatZafar (on the other hand) is operating on a forum voluntarily. He has voluntarily decided to inject his opinion into a matter from which he could stay out. There are plenty of other Indians who are either keeping out or being conservative. There is no excuse for that. I disagree with ArafatZafar on his opinions but what he is expressing ARE THE VIEWS of many Indian Ulama (rightly or wrongly). He is not doing Ijethaad but expressing what many Indian Ulama genuinely believed.

You need to read history. Many Indian Muslims (layman and Ulama) believed that obedience should be in this order:

  1. Allah Ta’ala
  2. Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)
  3. Mahatma Gandhi

Many Indian Muslims (layman and Ulama) believed and still believe that Hindus are Ahlul-Kitaab!

AND I AM NOT KIDDING!

Perhaps this is the first time you have come across these views but their views are no different to Extremist Pakistani views and here is Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto calling Bangali Muslim PIGS

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo5a5mR6SZY

This is how "YOUR PEOPLE" treated Bangalees:

ia601705.us.archive.org/11/items/MainNeDhakaDoobteDekhaBy...

Here is how "YOUR PEOPLE" treat Rohingya today:

edition.cnn.com/2017/09/11/asia/pakistan-stateless-rohing...

"Pakistani Nationals" are least suited to be lecturing Indian Muslims on "Indian Nationals"...As far I am concerned you are both two sides of the same coin.

Here is Maulana Tanveerul-Haq Thanwi who is part of MQM (racist organisation)

www.siasat.pk/forums/threads/mqm-has-appointed-moulana-ta...

P.S: I have spoken to him in the past (when I did not know that this Jackass was part of MQM) so you may find my old quotes on Sunniform and Muftisays about him; when I spoke to him. I was referred to him by a good friend who is not Pakistani and also did not know about his political affiliations.

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#299 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 13:24
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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All that you've written about Indian Ulama and laypeople does not give them the right to change the commands of Allah and you understand it better than me.

On what basis are you calling me a nationalist? You are well aware of my views on nationalism. This type of nationalism is shirk and my first and foremost identity is Islam not Pakistan.

Quote:
Many Indian Muslims (layman and Ulama) believed that obedience should be in this order:

Allah Ta’ala
Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)
Mahatma Gandhi

I would have no problem if they had kept it in this order. However they are giving more value to the Sunnah of Mahatma Gandhi over the command of Allah. They're blaming Kashmiri Muslims for retaliation. You tell me is it right or wrong?
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#300 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 13:29

bint e aisha wrote:
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So was Dr Allamah Iqbal

So was Muhammad Ali Jinnah

So was Zaulfiqar Ali Bhutto and he is also using Allah in his speech!

So was General Ziaul-Haq

So is Maulana Tanveer

So is Maulana Fazlur-Rahman

And so are you...

All use "Islam" to justify your views, sometimes it fits, sometimes it is a stretch and sometimes it is dead wrong.

You DO NOT know what conditions Indian Muslims live in so you have NO RIGHT to apply your DIY Ijtehad to them. Right next door to you "China" is doing the same thing and your "Ulama" are silent on the matter but SHOUTING on Kashmir. That tells me all I need to know about "Pakistani Islam"



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