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Pakistan vs India: Background, Conflict, Analysis

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Abdur Rahman ibn Awf, sipraomer
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#301 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 13:34
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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"I do not fear the blame of a critic."

I've spoken about China and I hate President of Pakistan Dr Arif Alvi just because of his views about Chinese persecution. I didn't attend convocation ceremony in our uni in which he was invited as a guest. But you are free to call me whatever you want without any evidence.

والسلام
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#302 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 13:37

bint e aisha wrote:
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Then the Indian Muslims are in no need of a "critic" like yourself who is an Extremist Takfeeri making Takfeer of the Indian Ulama. You can keep your Jackassery to yourself!


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#303 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 13:39
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Oh really? Where did I make takfeer? It's you who are an extremist and you've nothing substantial to say here and instead of talking about me and my actions you're talking about Pakistani Ulama, ZA Bhutto and others as if I'm responsible for what they say or don't say.
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#304 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 13:43

Moderators

Please split this thread and take both Indian and Pakistani Nationalists debate their Jackassery somewhere else.

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#305 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 13:44
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For a Maulana like Madani sahib to criticise the armed forces for killing Kashmiri civilians is actually major thing.

He is trying to be pramatic and present a neutral stance to the masses in India.

If the Ulemah of India came out in full support for the Kashmiris then Indian media would incite communal violence. Probably millions muslims across India being targetted.

The situation for muslims in India is quite precarious, we understand their difficulties...But we dont take any of their comments concerning Kashmir seriously or give any credence to it.

As for the blind nationalists .Who claim to be Indian first and foremost and cannot offer even lukewarm support for Kashmiri people. They are worthy of contempt.



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#306 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 13:49
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Brother please tell me if I have said anything wrong in this thread and I'll retract iA.
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#307 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 14:03
Abu Hurayra رضي الله عنه said, "A believer is the mirror of his brother. When he sees a fault in it, he should correct it."

Reference : Al-Adab Al-Mufrad 238

Please if you see me doing anything wrong, inform me for the sake of Allah and I'd appreciate it and change myself inshaAllah.
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#308 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 14:07
bint e aisha wrote:
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Sister please calm down..we understand the perspective you are coming from.

People like myself and Muadh Khan probably held a similar strong uncompromising stance on issues.In our youth.

Speaking personally people used to tell me, you will only start understand things when you reach 40. At the time I felt these people are being patronising.

But now that we are way past the age of 40 I can say those people who advised me were right. But when we are young we take an uncompromising stance on every issue our feelings are Haq is Haq and Batil is Batil.

Only with the passing of time we see things in a broader picture.

We cannot judge the Ulemah in places like India. With the same criteria as we judge the Ulemah in Pakistan.

The Ulemah in India are in a situation where they have to choose, the lesser of 2 evils. Any wrong word in front of the frenzied Indian media, could lead to genocide of millions of muslims in India. The situation that you are seeing in Burma, could easily be repeated in India.

Such righteous indignation that you are portraying is good but...probably misdirected.

A situation that leads to genocide of Indian muslims will not benefit the Kashmiri people.

This why by and large the Ulemah in India have been mainly focusing on dawah efforts.

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#309 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 14:09

PAKISTANI POSION: How to spot BIAS? (Part 1)

  1. Notice that when it comes to Kashmir she is incensed with “Indian Ulama” and accusing them of selling their Deen.
  2. When it comes to the plight of “Chinese Muslims” which also neighbours Pakistan, she has nothing to say about the Silence of “Pakistani Ulama”
  3. Notice that when it comes to the stance of “Indian Muslims” like ArafatZafar she is throwing the Qur’aan and Sunnah book at them
  4. When it comes to “Pakistani Muslims” who are blatantly racist to Bangalees, Rohingya, Punjabees, Pushtuns and everybody else, she is merely upset and irritated!

This is what Nationalism does to a person blinds them to reality and clouds their perception.  All of this while proclaiming loudly that they are not “Nationalists”.

A fair and just person would go after Mufti Rafi Usmani (HA) and Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA) with equal ferocity because they want to travel to India to solve the “Tableeghi Jamaat problem” instead of travelling to Islamabad to put pressure on the Chinese Government.

A fair and just person would go after majority of Pakistani Ulama with equal ferocity because they sold their Deen to praise MBS when thousands of Saudi Ulama are languishing in Saudi prisons.

If Indian Ulama can be blamed for turning a blind eye to the plight of Kashmiri Muslims THEN Pakistani Ulama can be blamed for turning a blind eye to the plight of Chinese and Saudi Muslims.

The “extremists” will counter by producing a quote or a speech from here or there (of exceptions) but largely this is the case with Ulama of both countries.

  1. Indian Ulama are VOCAL about Chinese and Saudi issues.
  2. Pakistani Ulama are VOCAL about Kashmiri issue.
What does it tell you?
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#310 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 14:15
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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I agree. I also agree with the sister.

The issue really is not the Ulama. It's the laypeople! They've taken the weakness of these Ulama as their Islam. That's where things have gone downhill.

It's another form of delusion.

We have Ulama who have no choice but to be politically correct, chose to be politically correct and those who who are on Haq but can put the lives of Muslim in danger.

The truth is, we need a mixture of these. But at the same time, the laypeople should be educated of what is the reality. No point in being politically correct if the laypeople start to believe that that is Haq.
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#311 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 14:18
General verses

“And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers’ way, We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell — what an evil destination!”

[al-Nisa’ 4:115]

“And Allaah will never lead a people astray after He has guided them until He makes clear to them as to what they should avoid. Verily, Allaah is the All-Knower of everything”

[al-Tawbah 9:115]



“Whoever disbelieved in Allaah after his belief, except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith; but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is wrath from Allaah, and theirs will be a great torment”

[al-Nahl 16:106]



“And there is no sin on you concerning that in which you made a mistake, except in regard to what your hearts deliberately intend. And Allaah is Ever Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Ahzaab 33:5]
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#312 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 14:21
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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جزاك الله خيرا so I should not call them Ulama e soo?
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#313 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 14:34
bint e aisha wrote:
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It depends on who the Aalim is...Those who are blatantly deviant are called out by other Ulemah themselves. Individuals like Maulana Wahidudin Khan who are proven to have deviant views.

So probably best just to remain silent. On those whose position is ambiguos.
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#314 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 14:37
bint e aisha wrote:
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Assalamua'laikum Sister. The efforts of Mahmood Madani in safe-guarding the Indian Muslims is undeniable. He comes from a family which has laid down their lives against the British in true jihad. I think it's unfair to call him ulema-e-soo. And I am sure, you didnt know about him, before making the statement.

His answers while pro-hinduist media trying to rip him : www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngxPLt2HnhE
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#315 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd March 2019 14:40
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Brother, I like your opinions on almost all issues and agree with them. And I am one of those who is not willing to turn a blind eye to the Pakistani ulema either. I am willing to call them out even for not speaking out against other oppressors of Muslims. And you know what, you may even be right about the Indian ulema being so politically correct in order to make the best of a bad situation. But consider this. Maybe the oppression upon these Muslims is BECAUSE of the unwillingness of these Muslims to speak out openly about what is right and what is wrong. And it's not just India that I am talking about. I have been very vocal about how the Aasia issue was handled by our nation, the govt. and ulema in particular. And it is that very issue that I feel is the cause of current tension plaguing the nation. I feel like the ghairah of Allah has been provoked after we as a nation failed to punish a convicted blasphemer. The ulema were busy being politically correct and so was the government. Do you think that could be the reason why Muslims in other nations are suffering too? Because there came a moment when their eemaan was tested with a situation like this, and they failed to come out and outright stand up against the transgression of Allah's laws? Do you think perhaps the Indian Muslims are suffering for the same reason? For remaining silent under the pretext of preserving their eemaan, when their brothers have been ruthlessly oppressed? And do you think they have preached this politically correct stance for so long that they are now even starting to believe this lie in their hearts, too? That they are no starting to believe that anyone who acts against Hindu soldiers is a terrorist, in their hearts? And that, of course since it can't be hidden from Allah what they believe in their hearts, Allah is starting to give them wake up calls, in the form of this oppression that they are facing?

I certainly believe that could be the case. I also believe the same about Syria, Iraq, Libya and now about Pak and India. That too many Muslims remained silent for too long.

I hope with all my heart that I am wrong and that your interpretation of it is closer to the truth.
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